Supply Source/Path

[Captain_Orso]

Is there any way to tell which path overland and river supply, not naval, is taking?

And how much is coming form where?

[lodilefty]

Best I know is to:

Turn on Full Debug
Be sure Verbosity_Supp = 1 in System.opt
Look in Host.log for the details....

...but I haven't looked closely at the results in some time.....

[Captain_Orso]

Best I know is to:

Turn on Full Debug

Check

Be sure Verbosity_Supp = 1 in System.opt

Checkerou

Look in Host.log for the details....

Checkerinos

...but I haven't looked closely at the results in some time.....

In the !Host.log it just says the amount of supply each location has for each step of distribution, but not from where.

[Pocus]

the supply just don't take one path from A to B... A will give to several locations, B will receive from several locations. And you iterate 3 times like that. Good luck in finding out that!

There is a tooltip, if you are in supply mode telling you how much you gave and received, at least in ROP and later.

[Jim-NC]

the supply just don't take one path from A to B... A will give to several locations, B will receive from several locations. And you iterate 3 times like that. Good luck in finding out that!

There is a tooltip, if you are in supply mode telling you how much you gave and received, at least in ROP and later.

That feature was added with 1.16 I believe.

[Captain_Orso]

the supply just don't take one path from A to B... A will give to several locations, B will receive from several locations. And you iterate 3 times like that. Good luck in finding out that!

There is a tooltip, if you are in supply mode telling you how much you gave and received, at least in ROP and later.

Yeah, I know that one too.

Here's the situation. The Union Corp has been sitting in Spotsylvania (Fredericksburg) for many a turn and is getting supply; more than enough to get by on. But how? It's now February. Supply should only go a maximum of 5 regions in good weather.

Will supply combine both non-rail overland and riverine pool movement?

Can riverine supply movement push to a depot in a region without a harbor?

How can one determine how much supply can be pushed through a region (town/city/fort/harbor)?

Also how is Manassas getting enough supply to support the Army and Corp stacks across the Potomac if most of the time Culpeper has its rail cut and/or has a high Union MC, when the closest CS Depot is in Richmond?

Anybody have any insights?

[Pocus]

This is 5 regions per iteration, you have 3 per phase in AACW. That's the max theoretical amount, but foul weather, bad terrain can prevent that, as you know.
Supply can use riverine+rail+normal movement in a single phase, yes.
yes, riverine movement is 'walk on water', within 5 regions, so can traverse a river, a land without anything and then stop at a depot.
for the max amount, I would not know it myself, the computation iterates so it is super hard to predict anything.
perhaps Richmond to Manassas can be taken by wagon (5 regions distance is ok here) despite the weather. Plus there is a possible intermediate leg at Charlottesville.

Supply should be something that should be easy on players in 95% of the time, and only be a problem in specific situations... For example a given supply point will de facto travels much faster than what a supply wagon can do in 15 days. I guess, from the remarks and questions, that you would prefer something much more stringent and hard, realistic. My answers will indicate on the contrary that the system, even if the restrictions are logical, is rather 'lax'... That or you screw all non veteran players plus the AI, all the time.

The end result however, is that we have a system that is able to move small packets of points, in a reasonably logical and realistic method, over a map, and it has been working since 5 years now, with almost all players happy of how it works. Compare that to HOI3 where the developers had to propose a 'arcade mode' where supply is free, because their initial model did not work and players were furious.
I'm not saying that for the sake of disparaging HOI... The game has merits, but on the aspect of supply, I really don't feel we should be ashamed of the system in work.

Does room from improvements exist? Probably, but this will be long to work on that and time can't be stretched (unless you fly at relativistic speed ). The only thing that can perhaps be envisioned for AACW2, and not even as a priority, is to find a more visual feedback on supply flow. As for the algorithm, I believe it will remain as is.

[Captain_Orso]

Many thanks for your answer!

From all my experience, and I've never encountered a situation quite like this one, I thought that the South would have needed a depot in Charlottesville to actually get more than just a trickle of supply through. And at first I didn't even think about it, but after my opponent pointing it out I was also surprised that I was getting supply into Fredericksburg, although not unhappy .

The real eye opener for me is this

Supply can use riverine+rail+normal movement in a single phase

as I didn't realize this at all .

This opens a totally new understanding of supply for me.

So basically, the Pull of the depot in Manassas on Richmond once established then allows for supply to channel it's way though any open path within the restrictions of distance and weather. That there is no depot in Charlottesville plays no role in this because the Pull is from Manassas and Charlottesville is just a part of the path.

The same goes for Fredericksburg and Annapolis.

I feel so enlightened

[Paul Roberts]

I'm Captain_Orso's opponent in that game, and you can see that the Union Corps at Fredericksburg is completely pocketed, and has been for many turns. That's the mystery: where is this Corps-sized Union force getting its supply when it is surrounded by enemy territory, and has been for months?

If I understand the answer posted above, it's that supply is all coming up through the river region between the Union force and Jackson to his north. Is that so?


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[Stauffenberg]

If I understand the answer posted above, it's that supply is all coming up through the river region between the Union force and Jackson to his north. Is that so?

In an early pbem when I was being rather careless about reoccupying regions vacated by my opponent, I had a Union army besieged in Savannah. I also made sure I had the requisite naval blockaders in Savannah Mouth and Savannah Estuary (I had Foreign Intervention and the USN was not contesting the large British fleet I had deployed there). I had assumed both his army besieged in the city and his units in Fort Pulaski would be starved out after a good 8 turns. Unfortunately they were being supplied and I finally noticed I had left Beaufort region in Union control just to the north as he had no troops there at all. Supplies were in fact being landed at Beaufort harbour and then trans-shipped across the Savannah River into the city--by moonlight one assumes, and right under the noses of my large besieging army which had lots of cavalry assets. Very sneaky! It's surprises like that, that make this game so enjoyable.

[Captain_Orso]

I'm Captain_Orso's opponent in that game, and you can see that the Union Corps at Fredericksburg is completely pocketed, and has been for many turns. That's the mystery: where is this Corps-sized Union force getting its supply when it is surrounded by enemy territory, and has been for months?

If I understand the answer posted above, it's that supply is all coming up through the river region between the Union force and Jackson to his north. Is that so?


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Even with all the debugging options turned on (the !Main.log I sent to you) it only says how much supply is in each region

• before production
• after production
• after each of the 3 supply distribution steps

Where it comes from is impossible to ascertain from the log.

Pocus' statement that supply can use any and all of the 3 transportation modi (land, rail, river) within each step makes it clear to me that the supply is arriving though the Rappahannock. Through which regions it passed through before that would be impossible to tell. Probably from Annapolis through Leonardtown or Port Tobacco, then Westmoreland, Rappahannock.

But even if all of the western Maryland peninsulas south of Annapolis were in Southern hands it could still pass through any of the towns on the Maryland peninsula east of Chesapeake Bay. The pathing is pretty darn resilient

[Jim-NC]

It could also be flowing from the little port to the east of Fredricksburg. That port is union controlled, and would be a place for supply to "stop" during 1 of the iterations. My best guess is that it is using riverine movement from Annapolis/Baltimore to somewhere (either directly to Fredricksburg, or to that port a little east) at which point it moves on to where it's needed.

[Captain_Orso]

The point is that there are many paths it could use, as long as the go through the Rappahannock. The Rappahanock is now frozen and no supply is arriving anymore leure: