Why have you never tried AGEOD games PBEM?

Never thought about playing PBEM
5%
9
Can't be bothered to work out how to do it
5%
9
Worried about looking like a fool
9%
15
Don't like the thought of being beaten by a human
2%
4
Athena gives me all the gameplay I need
4%
6
Dont like to have to wait for turns when I want to play
15%
26
Not sure I would have the time
32%
54
Worried about cheating
2%
4
I have had bad experiences in other PBEM games
1%
1
Other
6%
10
(I do play PBEM and just need to vote to see the poll results more easily)
18%
30
 
Total votes: 168
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Rafiki
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Fri Mar 21, 2008 1:28 pm

Trouble is if we aren't in sync with regards to when we have time to play; then it'll take us weeks just to complete a single turn ;)
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Eoghammer
Sergeant
Posts: 81
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Location: Lyon in France

Fri Mar 21, 2008 3:22 pm

I voted time because i can't plan to play at the 1 turn-a day rate for 2 or 3 months as a great campaign requires.
like the 2 others "extremist" i can play for a week 2 or 3 hours a day (more during week end) and not playing for a few weeks... so it is hard to play a PBEM.

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Franciscus
Posts: 4571
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2007 8:31 pm
Location: Portugal

Tue Mar 25, 2008 12:45 pm

Another "extremist" here. There are many days when I can not find a single minute to sit and play half an hour straight :p leure:

This has to do, among other things, on "real" life constraints, namely job, family, etc :innocent:

(That could be another intersting poll - ocupations, jobs, what do you think ?)

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Heldenkaiser
AGEod Grognard
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Tue Mar 25, 2008 4:29 pm

arsan wrote:In my case, the "time problem" probably means that if i have a free afternoon i want to play for 4 hours doing maybe six or seven turns straight and then possibly i will not find time to play for 3 o 5 days or maybe for a couple of weeks.

Difficult to do this on PBEM... :siffle:


What most PBEM players do about this is start so many games that, when they have time, they can do several turns in a row (from different opponents to be sure). Then when they don't have time to play, the turns simply accumulate in their inbox ... until there is time again.

The important thing is to have a good mix of opponents, some who are quick and some who are not. Then you can always adjust easily. If I know I will have a lot of time to play on a given day (say my wife is out meeting her friends), I will keep for that occasion the turns from people who return a file quickly. That way, maybe I'll get another from them on the same day. On days where I have little time, I often play turns from slow opponents that have been waiting for a while.

It's not a perfect system, but it works for most of us. Of course, occasionally you meet someone new and eager who wants a turn every day (some even claim several turns a day) from one and the same match ... but he is usually disappointed soon and then usually starts playing like everyone else. :D
[color="Gray"]"These Savages may indeed be a formidable Enemy to your raw American Militia, but, upon the King's regular & disciplined Troops, Sir, it is impossible they should make any Impression." -- General Edward Braddock[/color]
Colonial Campaigns Club (supports BoA and WiA)
[color="Gray"]"... and keep moving on." -- General U.S. Grant[/color]
American Civil War Game Club (supports AACW)

User avatar
Franciscus
Posts: 4571
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2007 8:31 pm
Location: Portugal

Tue Mar 25, 2008 4:46 pm

Heldenkaiser wrote:... Of course, occasionally you meet someone new and eager who wants a turn every day (some even claim several turns a day) from one and the same match ... but he is usually disappointed soon and then usually starts playing like everyone else. :D


(this kind of reminds me of other amusing activity... :sourcil: :niark: )

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arsan
Posts: 6244
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 6:35 pm
Location: Madrid, Spain

Tue Mar 25, 2008 5:04 pm

Franciscus wrote:(this kind of reminds me of other amusing activity... :sourcil: :niark: )

:mdr: :mdr: :mdr:

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chainsaw
Sergeant
Posts: 71
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 1:46 pm
Location: San Diego, CA
Contact: Website

Lack of time, erratic schedule

Wed Mar 26, 2008 2:15 pm

Hobbes wrote:I only play around 6 or 7 turns a week as Union, I guess on average about 40 minutes a day. I have a feeling people who play Athena would put at least this amount of time in?

Cheers, Chris


I can't speak for others (who said they lacked the time for PBEM), but I may go for 2+ weeks without time to sit and play, and then I have a free weekend and can play for 3 or 4 hours and knock out a bunch of turns.

A live PBEM opponent would get impatient and quit, but Athena never complains about my erratic schedule. If I was playing against a human I would probably play more often and other "minor" things would suffer <work, family, reading, work, football, work, eating...> :nuts:
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Hobbes
Posts: 4378
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Location: UK

Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:17 pm

I’ve had a dumb idea. You could have a team of several people who don’t have time for PBEM who all get the file. They could at least agree on a rough strategy to attempt at the start of each year.

As each file is received whoever happens to have time makes the turn.
Players who don’t have time may if they want have a look at the file and make a few comments on that turn if they wish to try and influence the one making the move.

Might be fun, might not.

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arsan
Posts: 6244
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 6:35 pm
Location: Madrid, Spain

Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:32 pm

Hobbes,
i think it will make you happy to know that Rafiki and i are going to begin an "extremist" PBEM april 61 campaign :nuts: :niark:
I expect Rafiki to send me his first turn when he finds some free time (april maybe? :innocent :) .
If everything goes smooth we could hit january 1862 turn before 2010! :niark:
Regards!

User avatar
Hobbes
Posts: 4378
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 12:18 am
Location: UK

Wed Mar 26, 2008 4:46 pm

arsan wrote:Hobbes,
i think it will make you happy to know that Rafiki and i are going to begin an "extremist" PBEM april 61 campaign :nuts: :niark:
I expect Rafiki to send me his first turn when he finds some free time (april maybe? :innocent :) .
If everything goes smooth we could hit january 1862 turn before 2010! :niark:
Regards!


Lol, that's the spirit! Good luck with your endeavour. Can we expect an AAR? :sourcil: Now I just need to persuade Pasternakski.

Cheers, Chris

User avatar
Rafiki
Posts: 5811
Joined: Thu Aug 24, 2006 9:19 am
Location: Oslo, Norway

Wed Mar 26, 2008 4:49 pm

arsan wrote:Hobbes,
i think it will make you happy to know that Rafiki and i are going to begin an "extremist" PBEM april 61 campaign :nuts: :niark:
I expect Rafiki to send me his first turn when he finds some free time (april maybe? :innocent :) .
If everything goes smooth we could hit january 1862 turn before 2010! :niark:
Regards!

I really hope AGEOD will include a savegame-converter with AACW2, so that we can finish our game there :niark:
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stejones82
Conscript
Posts: 17
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2007 4:56 pm

Why I PBEM

Tue Apr 08, 2008 8:33 pm

Greetings!

I enjoy PBEM for several reasons: cameraderie, friendly interaction, learning, but perhaps most of all, for decent competition.

I do NOT consider myself an ace wargamer. But playing BOA, I won my first 1775 campaign as the British against AI handily on points. My first 1775 campaign as the Colonials I won by taking all objectives. Both on Normal AI. :8o:

That is ridiculous! The very first go I should have my backside handed to me! AI is just not very challenging.

This is a complex system full of possibilities. To truly appreciate the depth, a human opponent is the best way to play.

tagwyn
AGEod Guard of Honor
Posts: 1220
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 4:09 pm

PBEM Players Poll.

Fri Apr 25, 2008 12:28 am

I am beginning to trust most of the members of this forum enough to try a PBEM game as soon as I finish all the game scenarios against Athena. :p apy:

User avatar
jastaV
AGEod Guard of Honor
Posts: 1159
Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2008 9:22 am

Wed Dec 03, 2008 10:59 am

1. Time beeing first reasons.... the only one I voted in the poll! :(

2. My game installations were commonly "porked" with modded files: often had to reinstall clean games.....
I got over that troubles recentely with creation of game duplicate installations dedicated to modding!

3. I can be a dangerous opponent!
Having practice with Game files I knew most scenario secrets: for example I well know how to move to trigger a Mack surrender in 1805 NCP scenario, or a Saxon betrayal in 1813 NCP scenario..... that's could be considered cheating!.... When you know the tips, temptation to use them is strong... event in a gentlemen match! :cool:
Ney: The army will not move!
Napoleon: The army will obey me!
Ney: The army will obey to its Generals’ orders!

[SIZE="1"]Fontainebleau, April 1814[/size]

tyrex
Colonel
Posts: 382
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2007 5:32 am

Wed Dec 03, 2008 11:45 am

I've done two PBEM on ACW. Well one major defeat and one major victory. But I'm not really attracted to search another player to play against.
I don't know. I'm not confortable enough in competitive play I guess

Guz
Private
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2008 6:16 pm
Location: On a Sand Dune in SoCal
Contact: Website

Thu Dec 04, 2008 3:44 am

Hobbes, good idea for a discussion. I have played 1 PBEM match and found it rather fun. Looking forward to the next one. I've been playing games like this for years and never played PBEM.

User avatar
Hobbes
Posts: 4378
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 12:18 am
Location: UK

Wed Mar 17, 2010 10:19 pm

arsan wrote:Hobbes,
i think it will make you happy to know that Rafiki and i are going to begin an "extremist" PBEM april 61 campaign :nuts: :niark:
I expect Rafiki to send me his first turn when he finds some free time (april maybe? :innocent :) .
If everything goes smooth we could hit january 1862 turn before 2010! :niark:
Regards!


So have you reached February 1862 yet? :)

Cheers, Chris

PascalB
Lieutenant
Posts: 103
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2008 2:01 pm

Thu Mar 18, 2010 9:18 am

For me, PBEM is really a disapointment...

I dont know why but I always have problems with the games I play.

I have 3 games atm and I'm inactive since a few weeks coz I have many crashs and problems with attached files or saved games or saving games...
I could only finish 2 of my 7 attempts...

I hate to deceive the guys who gave me their trust at the start of the game...

But I hope to resolve all these problems ASAP !

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CarnageINC
Sergeant
Posts: 93
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 1:33 am
Location: South Dakota USA

Sat Mar 27, 2010 1:52 am

AGEOD's AGE engine games are the best pbem games out there IMO. They have a well thought out system that does a great job at simulating the conflicts they have covered. I would love to see AGEod give a more modern conflicts some coverage like Vietnam or Lebanon.

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Carrington
Captain
Posts: 198
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2007 3:53 am

Sat Sep 04, 2010 8:59 pm

PascalB wrote:For me, PBEM is really a disapointment...

I dont know why but I always have problems with the games I play.

I have 3 games atm and I'm inactive since a few weeks coz I have many crashs and problems with attached files or saved games or saving games...
I could only finish 2 of my 7 attempts...

I hate to deceive the guys who gave me their trust at the start of the game...

But I hope to resolve all these problems ASAP !



I've persevered through my PBEMs, and enjoyed them greatly, but thinking back it's fairly common that there are some glitches with file transfer, (sending the wrong turn, the wrong side, etc. etc.) that seem to have occurred because of the idiosyncracies of the Ageod file system.

I can imagine the games would have run off the rails with a less patient or dedicated opponent.

Most recently, my biggest problem was actually finding the files to send... evidently Windows 7 believes that save game files should not actually be saved to a program files directory (actually not a bad idea... but it'd be nice if it told me!).

In general I might note that AGEOD's PBEM is much improved over the state it was in in 2008, with no replay function. Still, the user interface is still somewhat kludgy and compromised -- not least the quirky in-game directory structure poses some challenges in actually finding and sending the turn. This is particularly a problem should it be necessary to roll the turn back to a previous backed-up save game.

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Narwhal
Posts: 792
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2010 4:13 pm
Location: Paris

Fri Oct 08, 2010 9:37 pm

I don't want to bother playing PBEM. Too long, too complex. Save the game, quit the game, find the file, send the file, receive the file, open the game, load the game, repeat...

I would LOVE AGEOD games to be more user-friendly for this. The tooltips / drag and drop system are outstanding as far as interface is concerned, but this PBEM system is so... poor.

I would like the following improvements :

- Two players connected to the same game, each player giving his orders "at the same time".
- A system to send and receive orders without having to ALT TAB or quit or to open the mailbox.

I would like it so much.

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Narwhal
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Fri Oct 08, 2010 9:41 pm

Hobbes wrote:I’ve had a dumb idea. You could have a team of several people who don’t have time for PBEM who all get the file. They could at least agree on a rough strategy to attempt at the start of each year.

As each file is received whoever happens to have time makes the turn.
Players who don’t have time may if they want have a look at the file and make a few comments on that turn if they wish to try and influence the one making the move.

Might be fun, might not.

What would be fun also for ROP is several player by side, each leader of one army, which must be mononational :) Each player only plays his army. Of course, communication is allowed, but no "checking" if the other player did exactly what you wanted him to do.

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Hohenlohe
Posts: 588
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2006 4:24 pm
Location: Munich

Fri Oct 08, 2010 10:54 pm

Hobbes wrote:I’ve had a dumb idea. You could have a team of several people who don’t have time for PBEM who all get the file. They could at least agree on a rough strategy to attempt at the start of each year.

As each file is received whoever happens to have time makes the turn.
Players who don’t have time may if they want have a look at the file and make a few comments on that turn if they wish to try and influence the one making the move.

Might be fun, might not.


That was sometimes played with EUII in our Si-Games.com-Forum some months ago. I personally have not always the endurance for such a long PBEM-Play, but would like to try one after some months of playing with the ROP game or the AACW-Game.
But I prefered it on German, because I often miss some verbs in English which I have simply forgotten.In our forum we have two very good players which have a good experience with the AACW as a PBEM play and I think that they will give ROP or PON a try.
I think that Athena gives you a decent challenge on very hard, but most veterans are able to defeat her easily because of some failures she will always make. For example in AACW I often got the impression that Athena sent her forces from Washington to Harpers Ferry without necessary reason. So that only the main Washington Garrison remains and I could easily storm the capital with my main forces from Manassas or even Alexandria and got an early victory and sudden death for the Union. Only in the Clovis mod SVF the AI behaves in an other way.

greetings

Hohenlohe
R.I.P. Henry D.

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Gray_Lensman
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Location: Who is John Galt?

Sat Oct 09, 2010 12:29 am

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Njordr
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Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2010 4:00 pm

Mon Oct 11, 2010 8:52 am

I would really like to start a PBEM game, the very first for me, for I would learn more than playing against Athena.

The reason I prefer not to is that I simply haven't the time I would dedicate it. It's also a matter of respect for my opponent.

For example, in the last week I played AACW just in Saturday and Sunday...

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Rafiki
Posts: 5811
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Location: Oslo, Norway

Mon Oct 11, 2010 8:55 am

Njordr, as long as you are up-front about your perceived gaming skills and which pace you think you'll be able to hold, I'm sure you'll still have no trouble finding a suitable PBEM opponent :)

If you have a PBEM itch, I say you start scratching it :thumbsup:
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Stwa
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Mon Nov 15, 2010 8:30 pm

Not sure why I am in this thread, since it has been on-going for so long.

All things being equal, a good game against a Human opponent would obviously be the best scenario. However, few things are equal. PBEM mechanics, time, and integrity of game play, being the chief issues.

But, I can think of a lot of reasons why AI play can be more fun.

1. Personally, I adopt a different style of play against the AI, in which I imagine my units behaving in truley historical or correct ways. Might not be true, but it seems so to me.

2. I grade every turn, not just the entire campaign. If I gomer a particular year, or get a command shot up, or lose an important city, etc.. I grade my performance way down, because I am playing against the AI.

3. I can take my time, and see (and enjoy) the strategic situation on every turn, and let my mind appreciate the difficulties confronted by both sides. I find this necessary with Ageod Games (BOA), because there are no 3D battles, so I spend a great deal of time looking at optional movements, and this is where I derive most of the enjoyment.

4. I still dust off BOA (v 1.12a) from time to time, and play out one of the 3 principle campaigns. I worked hard over a few summers, changing and/or debugging a lot of the scripts, and at least for BOA, I was able to proove the validity of the game design for myself. Playing against the AI, helps in this regard.

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gchristie
Brigadier General
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less is more?

Sun Nov 21, 2010 4:19 pm

Out of curiosity I'm wondering of those that play by email how many elect to play the shorter AACW scenarios? From what I recall, players looking for a pbem opponent in this forum almost always opt for the full campaign. Given that time constraints are an often mentioned reason for not playing by email, I'm wondering if playing one of the shorter scenarios might be the obvious pbem compromise, and if so why players don't choose to do so more often?
"Now, back to Rome for a quick wedding - and some slow executions!"- Miles Gloriosus

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Clovis
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Sun Nov 21, 2010 4:27 pm

Hohenlohe wrote:That was sometimes played with EUII in our Si-Games.com-Forum some months ago. I personally have not always the endurance for such a long PBEM-Play, but would like to try one after some months of playing with the ROP game or the AACW-Game.
But I prefered it on German, because I often miss some verbs in English which I have simply forgotten.In our forum we have two very good players which have a good experience with the AACW as a PBEM play and I think that they will give ROP or PON a try.
I think that Athena gives you a decent challenge on very hard, but most veterans are able to defeat her easily because of some failures she will always make. For example in AACW I often got the impression that Athena sent her forces from Washington to Harpers Ferry without necessary reason. So that only the main Washington Garrison remains and I could easily storm the capital with my main forces from Manassas or even Alexandria and got an early victory and sudden death for the Union. Only in the Clovis mod SVF the AI behaves in an other way.

greetings

Hohenlohe


ROP and RUS should now be much better than was SVF AI. I will in the next weeks update SVF to this.
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Jim-NC
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Mon Dec 06, 2010 4:56 am

gchristie wrote:Out of curiosity I'm wondering of those that play by email how many elect to play the shorter AACW scenarios? From what I recall, players looking for a pbem opponent in this forum almost always opt for the full campaign. Given that time constraints are an often mentioned reason for not playing by email, I'm wondering if playing one of the shorter scenarios might be the obvious pbem compromise, and if so why players don't choose to do so more often?


I personally have done both. Sometimes I prefer a shorter game, sometimes the whole thing. PBEMers need to give them a try. You can be done in 1-2 weeks.
Remember - The beatings will continue until morale improves.
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