Franciscus wrote:If the demand for boxes exist (it seems so), then the reason to not produce them is about reducing costs. Completely understandable.
Nevertheless, digital-download only games have, still, less visibility then boxes; many of the folks that would like Ageod games are probably not very internet-friendly and might not ever know they exist; and some still simply do not buy DD games. Collector's boxes give "prestige" and visibility to a game/developer.
So, one of the unavoidable consequences of no boxes is less visibility; probably less sales; and the fulfillment, in the end, of the "inevitable" irrelevance and disappearance of developers and games like Ageod's.
Franciscus wrote:Unavoidable ? Probably
Franciscus wrote:@Generalisimo:
Do not worry, I am completely in the wave, until the end. It's just it will not be very funny when it will be just you and me riding it...
Franciscus wrote:Regarding manuals and collector's editions: No, I was not referring to NTW
I was thinking, more recently, about HWLG. As long as a lonely guy can produce such an astounding box, it will be hard to convince me it can not be done.
And manuals ? HWLG has, as I said before a 200 pgs bound manual and more 200 pdf pages. The game has bugs and will be patched. Erratas will exist. But said manual has enormous amounts of space dedicated to core rules, that will not change. To strategic teachings and advices. To complete instructions about the OOB, Maps and doctrines editors. To the battles that come with the game. To the various nations armies organizations. That kind of material will not become irrelevant. And as long as a lonely guy does it, it will be hard to convince me it can not be done
Franciscus wrote:@Gray
Regarding boxes and visibility, 2 points:
- In the nearest FNAC store, I can find lots of boxes of games published by Paradox: HOI3, EUIII, EIC, M&B, etc. As long as Ageod's publisher makes them, it will be hard to convince me it can not be done
Franciscus wrote:- Go to Amazon.com. Search for Ageod, and you will find the boxes of all the pre ROP games, some at bargain prices. I bet many of the people that recently bought AACW have bought such a box. So, visibility adn accessibility is not just on the physical shelves. As long as Amazon sells boxes, it will be hard to convince me it can not be done
Generalisimo wrote:Again, your lack of knowledge about the "system" makes you reach the wrong conclusions.
Ask Phil how much money does he see from the Amazon bargain bins... you may get a (bad) surprise...
Generalisimo wrote:Again... I will hit with a stick if you tell me HOI3 sold the same than ROP...
Generalisimo wrote:As long as we do not know the outcome of the HWLG story... then it doesn't have sense to discuss it.
I have run myself a "family business" and really, it was not profitable at all if it wasn't for our hard work on it (extra hours, etc). That doesn't mean a serious/big company should copy the same behaviour to do a succesfull business.
Gray_Lensman wrote:Unfortunately, that isn't the way it usually works out.
What usually happens is that Boxed games are produced and sold in bulk to large distributors. The profit is in the "bulk" sale. The game's programmer/developer(s) do not have control of the final retail sale price and the distributors can lower the game price to the point that they wish. At that point, their boxed game price becomes directly competitive with the Download version of the games undercutting the overall profit of the game's sales.
Franciscus wrote:
Please, do not try to convince me that it is bad for a company to sell items in Amazon. If true, I am partially responsible for the ruin of several game, book and music publishers.
Franciscus wrote:I do not know what are the sales of RoP. But in Amazon uk I can tell you what is the ranking of HOI3 (1522 in PC games sells- not exactly a block buster :mdr . AACW is 6124 - and Amazon was never a prefered vehicule for Ageod sales.
Franciscus wrote:The story of HWLG is pretty much told. It has been (and still is) developed by a small team consisting essentially of JMM and a few volunteers and betas. JMM is 58 years old and does not do this for a living. This has both advantages - he probably does not care that much if HWLG will "make a profit" - and serious disadvantages - he is only able to work in the game in his spare time. That and his perfectionism (some say madness - :neener was the cause for the long development cycle. The game continues to be improved. Knowing JMM, it probably continue so (albeit at his pace) for a long time.
That business model is rather similar to the recent SoW: Gettysburg. Norb also does not make games for a living, he does it in his spare time. The innovation is that the volunteers that helped throughout the development will aparently also get a share of the profits (if any). Maybe that's the future. As long as "niche" developers and/or their publishers need to have "adequate" profits (and adequate for a publisher is not the same thing as to a indie dev), they are probably doomed to fail.
Franciscus wrote:@Comte: Ageod is no longer such a "small" company. Now it is part of Paradox. Let's wait and see what will be Paradox policy regarding Vicky 2 and VgN distribution. I am prepared to bet that Vicky2 will be available in shelves and in Amazon, Play.com, etc. If so, and VgN does not, do you care to tell me which of the 2 games will have more "success" ?
Franciscus wrote:In another thread an important issue has been discussed, namely the (non) availability of boxed editions for future Ageod games (including RoP). Many probably do not care that much if a DD game is cheaper, and are willing to pay more to have our interests catered for.
Franciscus wrote:I would pay twice the price of the DD version. Just give me the prospect of receiving a beautiful box, with a proper printed and bound color manual, maps and other historic material, game art, and I will do it. To further lure more "enthusiasts", offer a quasi-beta status to those that pre-order: Access to a separate sub-forum, access to game art and music, even access to a beta pre-release version when available, as others do. I may be wrong, of course, but it would only attract more potential buyers.
Tory Whig wrote:Well Said!
Just as an FYI for the DD lovers the poll is now, at this writing, 16 who would purchase the Box edition and only 14 who would buy the DD version. That is 53% of a potential market versus only 46% for the DD.
Regards,
Tory Whig
Pocus wrote:Nothing is decided in a way or another for VGN. This will be AGEOD major, biggest title so far, so perhaps a boxed version will be available from the start ... or perhaps not, we really can't say. Personally a riveted, iron-clad box would fits me well
vonRocko wrote:I see "no charge" for the boxes. All you need is a 25 cent cd, charge 10-20 dollars extra, how can you lose money?
vonRocko wrote:The customer pays shipping on all mail order game sights, so don't give me that.
If your serious I have a Ben Franklin waiting to go!
Pocus wrote:Nothing is decided in a way or another for VGN. This will be AGEOD major, biggest title so far, so perhaps a boxed version will be available from the start ... or perhaps not, we really can't say. Personally a riveted, iron-clad box would fits me well
lodilefty wrote:(...)
The business model here likely is best to be DD, with custom-order premium content boxed set.
(...)
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