Garuda
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Game Over

Sun Jul 03, 2016 11:09 pm

I have purchased TYW two days ago. I have played other Ageod titles but dutifully played through the tutorials before dabbling with one of the smaller scenarios - the Danish one - and felt ready to start up the main campaign.

My main campaign (Imperial side) lasted three years before I rage quit. My game is beyond saving. I have no idea why it ended so quickly in abject failure.

Here's the problem - Bucquoy is besieging Prague. He has an army of about 25,000 men/1,500 PWR. Winter is coming and still no progress so I decide to withdraw, especially as Protestant armies are moving close to Vienna. I give Bucqouy the order to move back towards Budweis - but he fails to move from Prague. Next turn I repeat the order to withdraw again - and again, and again, and again, and again and so on and so on, but he will not move. Over the space of several months in which he refuses to budge, Bucquoy's force dropped from over 1,500 PWR to 0 PWR. When there is nothing but himself and his colonel left, after every military element in his force has disintegrated, only then does he eventually decide to move!!!!!

It's infuriating and non-sensical. I cannot continue the game, or more correctly - I don't have the will to continue with the game.

Why did this happen? is it a bug?

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Ripster8
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Mon Jul 04, 2016 9:52 pm

I experienced a similar issue in one of my efforts. Bottomline you can not move from an 'enemy province' into another 'enemy province'. As far as I can tell this is defined by which side has the greater military control in that province. In my case I moved an Imperial army from Wien north to enemy-held Brunn. At the same time a small Protestant force moved south from Brunn. We fought a minor skirmish in the province between Wien and Brunn. I won the battle and my army continued on to Brunn. The Protestants force, however, remained in the province where the skirmish was fought (I assume since I was moving through the province and when the battle was over I was at Brunn the defeated enemy did not have to retreat...just a guess). And the Protestants took military control of that same province since they were in possession. The problem was that now my army sieging Brunn was completely surrounded by enemy-controlled provinces. I could not move out of Brunn and my army slowly starved. Frustrated (and nearly rage-quitting!) I reloaded an earlier turn and was able to move a cavalry regiment up from Budweis and then east to Brunn, thereby opening up a chain of friendly provinces so my force could escape.

I don't care for the concept of military control as implemented in AGEOD games for just this reason (among others). If you have a military force in a province then you have military control, otherwise, for purposes of movement at least, it should be counted as neutral and open to both sides forces. There must be a better way to implement provincial control!

In any case, don't give up! The heretics require more chastisement!

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Random
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Mon Jul 04, 2016 10:24 pm

Move big armies in stages, that is withdraw forces that are small enough not to create traffic jams that effectively prevent any movement. A 1500 power stack should be OK moving across two or three turns. 17th Century armies generally lacked mobility when in great numbers and tended to travel in formations of not more 10,000 to 15,000 men. For every soldier there are probably two or more camp-followers clogging the roads plus all the horses, wagons and impedimenta. The evil papists also have their inquisitors to do their God's work in harassing and torturing the locals and this slows things down too.

(The latter is just in response to Ripster8's advise regarding heretics...)

-C

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Durk
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Tue Jul 05, 2016 2:14 am

My solution is one of these:
1. If your army is surrounded by hostile zones of control (all regions will show flashing red). Then send a small force, probably cavalry into the region you wish to retreat into. The next turn, as you now have a force in the adjacent region, your force can retreat. But use #2 as the way to retreat. Incidentally, you will know when you have selected the right small force as it will not have zone of control restrictions as in Random's reply.
2. If you have at least one region which does not have a zone of control flashing, retreat into that region. Otherwise do #1 first.
It is very hard in this game to retreat. You must make your offensive and defensive postures green and green; and, you must select the avoid combat option. Then retreat. In almost all instances you will escape with no combat. In the rare case where there is combat, you will still escape with most of your army.

I feel your frustration as it took me about two months to figure out this solution during which time I watched so many armies simply evaporate with nothing I could do. It is not a bug, but a new method of handling regional control. Which, incidentally Ripster8, I really love the new loyalty and military control - once you learn them. It is so good for a game like TYW where you are trying to control the hearts and not just the place.

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Ripster8
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Tue Jul 05, 2016 4:03 am

Brother Random's words contain much truth but, like all communications from the heretic, must be taken cum grano salis. Holy Mother Church seeks only to extinguish the evil in the wicked hearts of men, and pain is sometimes necessary to achieve that end. Torture the body to save the soul, brothers!
Poenas peccatoris ad salutem innocentium!

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Random
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Tue Jul 05, 2016 4:17 am

Aggg. Latin! A dead language that killed Rome and is trying to kill me. Unclean! What's needed is some sort of Reformation or maybe some entirely new church.

Oh wait, that was last Century. D'oh...

Sadly, there is truth in Father Ripster8's words as well.

-C
(Devout apostate)

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Ripster8
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Tue Jul 05, 2016 4:26 am

I must confess that I just use Google Translate to make up a Latin phrase that sounds impressive. That last one just means 'punish the sinner to save the innocent'. It sounds better in Latin. I once gave a ride to a college student (I drive Uber part time) and she (seeking a masters degree in medieval Latin literature) swore Latin was the best language for communicating effectively that the world ever created. I wanted to ask her why it is no longer used then but, alas, a short trip did not allow for further conversation. Thanks for the friendly sparring, Master Random!

Garuda
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Tue Jul 05, 2016 2:01 pm

Thanks for the replies.

After taking time to count to ten and returning to a more level-headed frame of mind - I started a new game. I had an almost identical situation develop, but Bucquoy this time dutiful lifted the siege and withdrew towards Budweis. Not entirely sure what was so different the second time. In both games I was running supply carts back and forth and had friendly forces spread out along my line of communication, so I don't think the first instance - ' the great evaporation' - was due to ZOC issues.

I have experienced a few game freeze issues in this second game whereas my first game and my run through the Danish scenario ran without problem. Quit/reload returns me to my current turn though, so nothing lost.

The only other odd issue was a message received after Tilly defeated Von Mansfield in battle. The message log at the start of the next turn informed me that Tilly was being blamed for the defeat and had his seniority reduced - despite the fact that he was actually victorious in battle?

My main frustration at the moment is that my war is very static - four years in and all the action is still centred around Vienna and Budweis. I find it difficult to maintain any advance into enemy territory - Prague and Pilsen remain as distant now as on day one of the war. I hope practice will make a better player of me.

Garuda
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Tue Jul 05, 2016 10:17 pm

Further to the above whereby Tilly was demoted in seniority despite his victory. Here is a reverse instance, Bucqouy being congratulated and promoted in seniority for his great victory when actually he lost. Is this WAD?
[ATTACH]39212[/ATTACH]


Also, from the above battle report - what do these figures actually mean? Is it hits and cohesion received or given. Is it 216 hits received? What is the (-52)? etc, etc.
[ATTACH]39213[/ATTACH]
Attachments
what.jpg
Bucquoy.jpg

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Ripster8
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Wed Jul 06, 2016 6:34 pm

I, too, have frequently encountered losing generals who are congratulated and increased in seniority, and the opposite, too, where winning generals are castigated and reduced in seniority. Someone from AGEOD will have to shed light on why this occurs. Perhaps there is a 'die roll' after combat for every general involved with a low result leading to punishment, a high result leading to congratulations, regardless of the overall outcome of the battle.

It looks to me that the numbers after the 'heart' symbol are starting strength and hits to same. Numbers after the grid+ symbol I believe are starting cohesion and hits to same.

Keep at it, comrade! The heretics breed like rabbits and must be stopped!

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oberst_klink
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Sun Jul 10, 2016 11:30 pm

Playing the game as well for a couple of days no since I've bought it and there are frequent occurances when losing generals get promoted or congratulated and winning ones being repremanded.
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam
(Marcus Porcius Cato Censorius)

Don't forget to visit the Gefechtsstand!

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Pocus
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Mon Jul 11, 2016 3:12 pm

That's not a bug, if a general manages to inflict more damages than he suffers, then he can get congratulated, even if during a defeat. Reverse is true also.
Image


Hofstadter's Law: "It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's law."

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