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Stratman
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WON: Russia & France War Alliance

Sat Dec 15, 2018 9:03 am

Hi everybody!
I have started Grand Campaign (historical in principal, not "what if" versions) and play as usual solitaire game (for all sides ). I am still in 1805 because I play a several AGEod games at the same time. :)

The more I play the more I feel there is a good opportunity for both Russia and France to unite together against Britain with dividing among themselves all profit in Europe, Caucasus, Ottoman...

As we remember the Tilsit Treaty - the same things were discussed by Napoleon and Alexander I in 1807.
But even in the game terms I do not see for Russia any benefits for alliance with Britain.

Any suggestions?

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Citizen X
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Re: WON: Russia & France War Alliance

Sat Dec 15, 2018 10:57 am

Why determine that at all? Go with the offers.
Same applies to all other nations, too. Due to game mechanics only Austria is a bit at a loss in the backstabbing department.
If France wants to win by sudden death however, it will most likely need to take down Russia, as taking London will be out of reach.

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Stratman
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Re: WON: Russia & France War Alliance

Sat Dec 15, 2018 11:27 am

Agree, Sudden Death factor is making sense!
But in a case of war with Russia France (at least in my game which is just begun) have a bad luck fight against the strong coalition (Britain, Russia, Austria and may be Prussia and even Ottoman) with a risk of their own NM.
In this case integration with Russia looks like Plan B, - the good chance for both sides win by getting more VPs.

It could be a temporary coalition. Later France or Russia may leave this because of the other opportunities. It is just "view from 1805".

Solitary gaming gives fun possibilities respecting the interests of all 7 sides - depends on which one is making its turn at the moment :)

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Colonel Marbot
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Re: WON: Russia & France War Alliance

Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:28 am

You might be able to get more victory points and a marginal victory that way, but to win outright, you will need to take Moscow, London and Madrid. After Tilsit, Russia will likely put its efforts against the Ottomans, who they will eventually overrun unless you intervene. The good news is that a long campaign against the Ottomans will deplete Russian forces and pull them south. If you prepare for an attack on Russia in 1810, you can have the force, depot brigades and supply wagons needed for this campaign. And don't forget your Navy. To successfully attack England you will have had to be very crafty to beat the Royal Navy piecemeal and gain superiority over the channel. Good luck.

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Stratman
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Re: WON: Russia & France War Alliance

Tue Dec 18, 2018 2:21 am

Colonel Marbot, thank you!
You have wrote some tips of long term strategy which sounds good.

But back to the topic :)
In the middle of 1805 "my" France needs a strong ally against the threat of Britain and Austria. British fleet smashed French and Spanish ships and has a total control in all seas. "My" Britain has twice as many ships to drown other fleets.
"My" Russia captured Sweden prepares for Ottoman, wishes Prussia and do not want fight for the distant lands.
In this case France and Russia could find more common points then others.

Sooner my WON party will run this way in the beginning.

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Citizen X
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Re: WON: Russia & France War Alliance

Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:10 am

Ageod games reflect real life in that the leading nations either want a stable situation so that the trailing nations stay trailing. That's VP wise, but also politically and economically. Napoleon tried to achieve that in Tilsit, Metternich at the "Wiener Kongress" (Pun intended). Or they want to take advantage of a landslide situation to achieve a sudden victory.

In either way, an early alliance between Russia and France is not in the interest of France, as they have not much to gain. Russia's fleet doesn't add up to a naval threat against England and the expected gain in such an allaince doesn't keep france ahead, in VP and otherwise. France starts with a HUGE advantage and she wants to use it to make a big leap forward and keep everybody else stalled. AFTER that is achieved she can ally with whomever, even England.

Your scenario makes more sense from the Russian perspective than from the French. They would rather ally with the Ottos to keep Russia (and Austria) at bay.

The only nation other than Spain that an early alliance makes sense with is Prussia. Big enough to make a difference and small enough to not impose a threat.

Should France mess up the campaign against Austria however, then an alliance with Russia makes more sense.

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Stratman
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Re: WON: Russia & France War Alliance

Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:53 pm

Citizen X wrote:
France starts with a HUGE advantage and she wants to use it to make a big leap forward and keep everybody else stalled. AFTER that is achieved she can ally with whomever, even England.

Your scenario makes more sense from the Russian perspective than from the French. They would rather ally with the Ottos to keep Russia (and Austria) at bay.

Citizen X, thank you for the answer!
Yes, there are HUGE brilliant French corps with famous marshals (and BTW beautiful Units images! WON is one of my fav AGEod title).
But anyway, as a French player I do not feel myself safety.
1. Fleet blocked everywhere in Atlantic ports. And will be blocked for sure in mediterranean as soon as Britain decide to clear Sicily from French force.
2. France has to spray your strength along its borders and coasts. Imminent British invasion – who knows where and when??; “my” Prussia wants to be a part of this invasion to get some French land; Mack corps threatens near Milano... That is why “my” France wants to unite with Russia and gobble together big fat pieces of Austria and Prussia.
3. I do not want waste my force for Ottomans. France do not have an extra ones. If only push Austria from south, but that`s another case.

Conversely Russian bear is calm. No threats at the moment! Conquest of Ottomans is just a matter of time. The next step is Prussia. War alliance with France give to Russia a chance for conquest of Austria.

So, finally these are benefits I see for both Russia and France.
Ok, may be I`m wrong. But that is my vision for now.

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Colonel Marbot
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Re: WON: Russia & France War Alliance

Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:21 pm

I believe you are going to find the game going into a different direction then you plan and the alliances you are working for, will not give you the benefits you intend. Neither Russia nor Prussia will become the partner you expect.

The challenge is not 1805, nor 1806 or 1807. The Grande Armee is so strong that it will easily defeat Austria, get Russia to sue for peace and defeat Prussia. Your goal is to secure Poland as an ally who will provide you with meaningful and loyal forces. The challenge here is to defeat these powers without depleting the strength of the French forces, as you must continually build it up. By 1808/1809, Austria will start to push Bavaria and you must have built a corp(s) to help Bavaria in the renewed threat from Austria as much of your army will by now be in Poland and eastern Prussia. England does not yet have a strong enough land force to provide a serious threat to your coast.

The challenge will be resources. If you have not fought Austria, Russia and Prussia effectively, you may have lost some French force and given your loss of the Navy, it will be very draining on French resources to both rebuild a navy and to rebuild any excessive losses to the Grande Armee. The big strategic decision comes after defeating the main European land powers and forming the Duchy of Warsaw. Do you turn against Spain as Napoleon did?. I have always chosen to take Madrid last after conquering Russia and England. Do you attack Russia earlier, when it is involved against the Ottomans? Or do you send your corps into the Balkans to sweep up Ottoman land yourself? Another choice might be an invasion of Sweden in order to rid yourself of this pesky enemy later in the game.

A good French goal is to build one new French corp per year. In real life, Napoleon had built Mortier's 8th corp for his 1806 campaign, and you will need a 9th in 1807 and so forth, especially if you plan on that Spanish campaign. And of course that goal of liberating Poland will give you a Polish corp. As you form the Grande empire, you can enlist forces from each of the little German allies. Holland will give you forces as you progressively annex it. Wesphalia will as well. Denmark is a difficult country to ally with but once successful will give you additional naval forces along with Holland. Bavaria will give you forces, but be careful about using them in your Grande Armee since they are needed to protect Bavaria. And both Saxon and Prussian expeditionally forces are both highly unreliable.

Early on your goal is to surround and defeat Austria, then Russia and Prussia with very little loss of strength. Use overwhelming forces, surround your enemies and defeat them using your best marshals to ensure you beat the enemy with little loss yourself. Watch the strength of your divisions and if they start to wear down, pull them back to replace losses. Letting a division be depleted and then destroyed will cost you too much to completely rebuild from scratch. And lastly, be careful of your settings. If you are using realistic supply, one potentially expensive goal is the clearing of Prussian fortresses s up the Baltic. Do not try any such campaign in Winter months or you will find yourself suffering losses which the enemy could never deal you themselves.

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Stratman
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Re: WON: Russia & France War Alliance

Thu Dec 20, 2018 6:33 am

Colonel Marbot, thanks a lot! :hat:
I`ve got you about Poland, Bavaria, early Austria and so on.

Seems like WON strong scripted by historical events as we have in RUS, doesn`t it?

What a great community we have here around AGEod!!
Super content and passion.

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Citizen X
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Re: WON: Russia & France War Alliance

Thu Dec 20, 2018 10:54 am

WON, as most Ageod games needs a bit of prudence when stearing it out of historical waters.

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