Hey guys
I'd like to know how often you get to use the Card in PBEM. I myself have only seen it being played once; when I attacked Königsberg. In any PBEM since then, the Russians simply stay clear of German soil and the card never gets played.
Byrd,
We are starting a new multiplayer PBEM on the Paradox forums and we have actually banned the use of the card as a house rule to enable the Russian player to have more options and also allow Hindenburg to get into the game.
So really there is no incentive for the EE player to invade even if the CP heads west, as they risk being hammered by this card.
Perhaps Hoffman should be a random one off event? But even then it would discourage the EE, the AI obviously has no real issue with it. Perhaps Koingsberg could be made into a 5NM objective regardless and this would be a big objective to take.
We are starting a new multiplayer PBEM on the Paradox forums and we have actually banned the use of the card as a house rule to enable the Russian player to have more options and also allow Hindenburg to get into the game.
So really there is no incentive for the EE player to invade even if the CP heads west, as they risk being hammered by this card.
Perhaps Hoffman should be a random one off event? But even then it would discourage the EE, the AI obviously has no real issue with it. Perhaps Koingsberg could be made into a 5NM objective regardless and this would be a big objective to take.
Well, i disagree.
The Russian venturing into the Border should be there in order to fire the HINDENBERG event.
But any deep Russian Incursion a 'la Samsonov-Rennenkaampf' should and should only end in total disaster.
Why?
The Russian Army staff itself calculated that it would take 3 pre-war divisions (well stocked and supplied) to defend against a German Corps (again fully loaded assumed); this means 2:3 ratio in offensive is enough for parity and 1:1 enough for victory if you are Germany- Historically speaking.
On the defensive, even 2nd rate and 3rd rate German formations like the Landwehr corps were able to withstand a full fledged assault by 2 or more Russian Corps.
And this happened time and again (the Austrians are another matter, they can be weakened further). But the Imperial German army was perhaps relatively speaking the Best Trained and Best Drilled and Best Led and Best supplied army since the 1805 Army of France on the European Battlefield,
the game doesn't do it enough justice as Austrians, Russians, Italians, Minors and Ottomans are all much more stronger than they could ever hope to be.
Hence; HOFFMAN card should be used by the CP player if Russia enters German Land and used decisively for a crushing victory.
As for the Westward march of the CP- in game, the Western Powers are much more stronger than they were Historically.
It took a lot of time for the English Foreign Office and Secretary of Colonies to convince the Dominions, Colonies to send troops to Europe.
Further, the task of supply and transport was never so easy or fast.
Thirdly, UK never had conscription from the start, so the English armies were very tiny till mid 1915.
Fourthly, CP manages to reach Lilee at most by September, whereas Kluck had reach Paris's outskirts in late August.
Summary- WE and EE victory has to be slow and steady, CP getting wiped out in 1915 is no fun, as this wouldn't, couldn't and didn't happen Historically.
P.S.: If you want to play total SANDBAG, well, then as WE just land in the SEA provinces between Gallipoli and Rhodes Island on the Turkish Coast with a Huge ANZAC Army and a Huge Canadian Army and wipe out Turkey by mid 1915. Game over for CP. (these provinces are UN-mined and less than 10 provinces from Constantinople)
The Russian venturing into the Border should be there in order to fire the HINDENBERG event.
But any deep Russian Incursion a 'la Samsonov-Rennenkaampf' should and should only end in total disaster.
Why?
The Russian Army staff itself calculated that it would take 3 pre-war divisions (well stocked and supplied) to defend against a German Corps (again fully loaded assumed); this means 2:3 ratio in offensive is enough for parity and 1:1 enough for victory if you are Germany- Historically speaking.
On the defensive, even 2nd rate and 3rd rate German formations like the Landwehr corps were able to withstand a full fledged assault by 2 or more Russian Corps.
And this happened time and again (the Austrians are another matter, they can be weakened further). But the Imperial German army was perhaps relatively speaking the Best Trained and Best Drilled and Best Led and Best supplied army since the 1805 Army of France on the European Battlefield,
the game doesn't do it enough justice as Austrians, Russians, Italians, Minors and Ottomans are all much more stronger than they could ever hope to be.
Hence; HOFFMAN card should be used by the CP player if Russia enters German Land and used decisively for a crushing victory.
As for the Westward march of the CP- in game, the Western Powers are much more stronger than they were Historically.
It took a lot of time for the English Foreign Office and Secretary of Colonies to convince the Dominions, Colonies to send troops to Europe.
Further, the task of supply and transport was never so easy or fast.
Thirdly, UK never had conscription from the start, so the English armies were very tiny till mid 1915.
Fourthly, CP manages to reach Lilee at most by September, whereas Kluck had reach Paris's outskirts in late August.
Summary- WE and EE victory has to be slow and steady, CP getting wiped out in 1915 is no fun, as this wouldn't, couldn't and didn't happen Historically.
P.S.: If you want to play total SANDBAG, well, then as WE just land in the SEA provinces between Gallipoli and Rhodes Island on the Turkish Coast with a Huge ANZAC Army and a Huge Canadian Army and wipe out Turkey by mid 1915. Game over for CP. (these provinces are UN-mined and less than 10 provinces from Constantinople)
Rascals, would you live forever? - Frederick the Great.
The problem isn't that the card of the effects of the card doesn't make sense; they do. The problem is, that people can choose to avoid it in a gamey fashion. And I do not have a warm spot in my heart for intentional gamey play.
I agree with you on the non-Hoffmann parts of your post. Very strongly as a matter of fact.
I agree with you on the non-Hoffmann parts of your post. Very strongly as a matter of fact.
Well, Byrd if we want to remove Hoffman, we need to change the Starting OOB's.
French should start without the First Army, Russians should start without the Second Army and Half of the First Army and
Austria should start with 1 corps less in the 5th and 6th armies and also half the 2nd army (2 corps less) so basically 1 army less.
The Serbs without all that experience. (0 exp army)
That will balance the game.
Reason?
French losses were severe in the BATTLE OF FRONTIERS? In Game- 0 losses.
Russian losses in East Prussia over a period of 6 months from August 1914- Catastrophic over 0.5 Million lost (Dead/Wounded/Captured/Missing with Most of the wounded becoming POW) for German losses of 75 thousand, in Game- doesn't happen this way.
Austrian losses in Serbia and Ruthenia/Galicia - Catastrophic, nearly a million lost, the Russians also lost about a million and the Serbs about 150000.
Whereas in PBEM-
WE and EE do not lose entire armies and Austrian losses are manageable. This cripples CP by 1915, if you want the war over by 1915; well then all this sounds good else not so much.
P.S.:- I hope you can convince me otherwise. Because i do not want all those changes made 'really' and this is the reason i vouch for House-Rules.
French should start without the First Army, Russians should start without the Second Army and Half of the First Army and
Austria should start with 1 corps less in the 5th and 6th armies and also half the 2nd army (2 corps less) so basically 1 army less.
The Serbs without all that experience. (0 exp army)
That will balance the game.
Reason?
French losses were severe in the BATTLE OF FRONTIERS? In Game- 0 losses.
Russian losses in East Prussia over a period of 6 months from August 1914- Catastrophic over 0.5 Million lost (Dead/Wounded/Captured/Missing with Most of the wounded becoming POW) for German losses of 75 thousand, in Game- doesn't happen this way.
Austrian losses in Serbia and Ruthenia/Galicia - Catastrophic, nearly a million lost, the Russians also lost about a million and the Serbs about 150000.
Whereas in PBEM-
WE and EE do not lose entire armies and Austrian losses are manageable. This cripples CP by 1915, if you want the war over by 1915; well then all this sounds good else not so much.
P.S.:- I hope you can convince me otherwise. Because i do not want all those changes made 'really' and this is the reason i vouch for House-Rules.
Rascals, would you live forever? - Frederick the Great.
You're right on the money with the History, wouldn't want to disagree with you there. But I believe, at least with the Veteran Activation rule, the Germans can have numerous "Hoffmanesque" situation when they hit a hidden inactive Russian force or if an actually inactive force hits them. As it stands now, a lot! of EE players never enter German soil even if there is nothing but a Division between them and Berlin. Even though, the effect doesn't have to be that severe. I had several games where the result of a battle after the card was played was mediocre at best.
Maybe it would help if the card only worked on troops in the region the card is played on, if we have to have it in the game.
Maybe it would help if the card only worked on troops in the region the card is played on, if we have to have it in the game.
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests