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CFF
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Tue Jan 13, 2015 11:36 pm

ok this is what i understand from wiki, 18 is the space that one unit would ocupy so in close spaces u can fit less unitys. thats the idea right?

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Pocus
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Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:23 am

18 is the number of elements (a unit is made of elements) that can fight at the same time in a battle.
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Hofstadter's Law: "It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's law."

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CFF
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Thu Jan 15, 2015 4:23 am

ty for the help. So closed and open ,means closed formation and open formation right?

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The Red Baron
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Fri Jan 16, 2015 12:42 am

Closed refers to close terrain; i.e., forest, mountain, swamps, etc. Open terrain refers to clear, desert, steppe, etc.

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CFF
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Fri Jan 16, 2015 1:04 am

The Red Baron wrote:Closed refers to close terrain; i.e., forest, mountain, swamps, etc. Open terrain refers to clear, desert, steppe, etc.


But how is possible 18 elements fight in close terrain, and only 4 elements fight in open terrain? shouldnt be more elements fighting in open terrain and less in close terrain?

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Pocus
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Fri Jan 16, 2015 9:43 am

do you have a screenshot, this should not be.
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Hofstadter's Law: "It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's law."

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CFF
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Fri Jan 16, 2015 5:45 pm

Pocus wrote:do you have a screenshot, this should not be.


this info frontage closed 18 and frontage open 4 is in the details of any infantry unity in the combat tab, i think it means in open terrain they use closed frontage formation and in close terrain they use open frontage formation, like if one army have 6 elements should be close formation frontage
xx
xx
xx
and open formation frontage
xxx
xxx

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CFF
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Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:06 am

.in terrain map mode what means frontage width o 48 d 48 in points, i understand o= ofense and d=defense but and the 48 points?
please help someone.

Mac Linehan
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Wed Mar 25, 2015 2:33 am

Hi Philippe-

Am currently learning the game by playing the Tannenberg Scenario (non tutorial) as the Russians.

I can verify that "frontage open 4" and "frontage closed 12" applies to all of the Russian infantry units (elements) checked thus far. Am not sure if this is in accordance with the explanation in the rules. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Thank You, Sir-

Mac

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Pocus
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Wed Mar 25, 2015 9:58 am

Frontage is the max number of elements that can fight at the same time in a battle. This is calculated by checking the nature of the element (infantry, cavalry, ...) and the terrain mostly. If a closed terrain allows for 60 points of frontage worth and an element has a cost of 5 frontage points, then you'll see for all these elements Frontage closed 12, because this would be the amount you can deploy if you had only this type of element.
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Hofstadter's Law: "It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's law."

Mac Linehan
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Wed Mar 25, 2015 7:14 pm

Pocus-

Had to pause and think about what you were saying; and now clearly understand.

Thank you for you immediate response; I am most appreciative.

Am loving TEAW- it is outstanding.

Mac

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CFF
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Wed Mar 25, 2015 7:39 pm

ty a lot, now i get it too! love the game, waiting for Napoleon and one more dlc scenario pack for teaw!

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Pocus
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Thu Mar 26, 2015 9:56 am

Yes I tried to put in at most 2 lines of text a full definition of frontage :)
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Hofstadter's Law: "It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's law."

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Erik Springelkamp
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Thu Mar 26, 2015 12:05 pm

Mac Linehan wrote:I can verify that "frontage open 4" and "frontage closed 12" applies to all of the Russian infantry units (elements) checked thus far.


Why would there be less units able to fight in open than in close?
One would expect the opposite. Or does this reflect the vulnerability in open terrain that forces a more dispersed formation?

Mac Linehan
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Fri Mar 27, 2015 3:38 am

post deleted- I was mistaken in my understanding.

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Erik Springelkamp
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Fri Mar 27, 2015 10:11 am

Mac Linehan wrote:"Frontage open 4" means that that particular infantry element will only take up 4 spaces of the "x" amount allotted to open terrain


Hmm, this is the opposite from what Pocus says, if I am not befuddled about this:

If a closed terrain allows for 60 points of frontage worth and an element has a cost of 5 frontage points, then you'll see for all these elements Frontage closed 12, because this would be the amount you can deploy if you had only this type of element.

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Pocus
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Fri Mar 27, 2015 10:26 am

I did not check how I worded the tooltip though, so perhaps this is not good. I just checked with the latest games and the tooltip seems pretty clear to me. You have a number of frontage points, and how many elements can fit within this value.
Image


Hofstadter's Law: "It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's law."

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Erik Springelkamp
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Fri Mar 27, 2015 1:57 pm

Now how does all this compute:

The attachment FrontageForest.jpg is no longer available


Forest: frontage width for line elements in points: 48
For this stack in elements: 8
Now 6 x 8 = 48, so that makes a frontage with for the line element of 6?

Infantry element width in points in closed: 14 (is forest closed?)
Infantry element width in points in open: 4 (forest is not open for sure?)

Conclusion: Forest (6) is a bit tighter than open (4), ratio 1.5, but a lot spacier than closed (14), inverse ratio 2.3

Is this a correct analysis?
Attachments
FrontageForest.jpg

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Pocus
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Fri Mar 27, 2015 2:44 pm

14 is the average cost in frontage points, using values from forest, hill and swamp. For open, only clear terrain is used for the detail window.

What you have to know also is that the frontage cost of an element is its move speed in said terrain. So if you take a unit which is not nimble or impeded, like an infantry, then you see that in forest you need 6 days. Now if you divide 48/8, you get back these 6 days.
Image


Hofstadter's Law: "It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's law."

Mac Linehan
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Fri Mar 27, 2015 9:38 pm

Pocus, Erik-

After carefully rereading Pocus's explanation, I think I have finally got it.

Erik, I sincerely apologize for going off in the wrong direction based on a misconception.

My thanks to you both, for your patience and willingness to explain it in language that even I could comprehend.

A chagrined but enlightened Mac...<grin>

antoine1965
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Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:47 pm

Hi

how can i have this tooltips with movecost, offensiveness and dfensiveness, etc..?

Thank you

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Erik Springelkamp
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Tue Mar 31, 2015 8:44 am

antoine1965 wrote:Hi

how can i have this tooltips with movecost, offensiveness and dfensiveness, etc..?

Thank you


With the terrain overlay.

Each map overlay has special tooltip content.
Press the keys 1, 2, 3 etc. and look at the tooltips. Very instructive.

antoine1965
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Sat Apr 04, 2015 9:03 am

thank you

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