User avatar
Jinx
Captain
Posts: 166
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2014 10:09 pm

Traffic Penalty, and how it changes things.

Wed Dec 17, 2014 9:10 pm

(I initially posted this on my AAR, but I thought it worth while to post here as well.)

Morning!

Has anyone tried playing around with the traffic penalty? What are your thoughts and observations?

In our PBEM, we recently switched to v1.02 and with that came a traffic penalty option. Since there is no description on what the levels of the penalty do, I started up a fresh game, set the penalty to half and began moving various sizes of armies and corps across the plains in various weather.

Some interesting results!

It seems on average that single armies did decently well, loosing a bit more cohesion then they would have without a penalty. But anything upwards of a single army seems to have strong effects.

For example, two armies worth about 2000 CP, marched on a clear day across the plains, at the end of the turn they lost about 30% - 50% cohesion.

Those same two armies traveling in mud across plains, suffered 80% - 90% cohesion loss.

Another interesting case is where a force of 1500 CP crossed the plains in clear weather north to south, while a second 800 CP force crossed east to west on the same territory a day or two after the first force cleared the area and suffered 80% - 90% cohesion loss. Ending with only 119 CP and failing to engage the enemy at the end of their march.

These results could be because my TEAW files being a bit scrambled and not the cleanest install. So don't take it as gospel truth. But it's interesting.

This may see the end of anything more then a single army and perhaps a couple attached corps making any attacks. Which will definitely be a game changer, and may provoke a more spread out advance, hard won gains, and more easily held territories in the face of numerical superiority. As it is (at medium penalty), I hesitate to make any attack unless I have UNDER 1500 CP and still in clear superiority against the enemy.

It may need to be tweaked a bit, as all new features go, but I think this is a good thing, and it makes it nearly impossible to make any advance unless specific conditions are met.
It will eliminate any super stacks and therefore it will most certainly mess it up royally for any attacker in a war of entrenchment. It will change the face of entrenchment warfare to one in which any attack against an enemy army will require armies to attack from multiple adjacent territories. Flanking, defeats, and dispersed forces will be the new way.

I'm excited for how it could change the face of the eastern front too! Russian defense will be a lot easier! We may even see an entrenchment line being formed by the Russians along defensive points.

Interesting indeed.

In our game though, I think it would be unfair to use the medium penalty, even the lowest penalty, especially at this stage of the game. After all, the bulk of the Central Powers advances have been made, and they begin to drift into a more defensive posture in the whole war. Especially as before long the USA will also join the fight. Making the Entente purely the more aggressive party in a war that will favor the defender even more strongly.

I would consider a switch to the lowest penalty over then winter, or even a month or two from now. To change now in mid-operation may be a little unfair, now when it is my time to be offensive after nearly breaking through into Germany and the Central Powers to become more defensive after using stacked armies to knock out Russia.
This feature, if it works the way I suspect it is intended to work, is a major game changer for a more realistic and historical approach to the war of of 1914.

Well done!

Anyways! Has anyone tried this out? Any similar results?
"Mon centre céde, ma droite recule, situation excellente, j’attaque."
~ Ferdinand Foch, in the defensive actions to prevent a German breakthrough in 1914.

oldspec4
Lieutenant Colonel
Posts: 251
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2006 1:14 pm

Wed Dec 17, 2014 9:23 pm

I'm using this option at a low level; and also like the effects as you have noted.

User avatar
Jinx
Captain
Posts: 166
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2014 10:09 pm

Wed Dec 17, 2014 9:51 pm

oldspec4 wrote:I'm using this option at a low level; and also like the effects as you have noted.


How does the AI cope? I tried it short term to try movements (without AI interfetence) and the rest is speculation.
Does it waste cohesion! Or is it adjusted to be more economical?
"Mon centre céde, ma droite recule, situation excellente, j’attaque."
~ Ferdinand Foch, in the defensive actions to prevent a German breakthrough in 1914.

oldspec4
Lieutenant Colonel
Posts: 251
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2006 1:14 pm

Thu Dec 18, 2014 12:14 am

Jinx wrote:How does the AI cope? I tried it short term to try movements (without AI interfetence) and the rest is speculation.
Does it waste cohesion! Or is it adjusted to be more economical?


I don't know the details re: the AI, etc. But I have received the traffic message in the message log and noticed significant hits (in a good way) to my movement and cohesion.

User avatar
Jinx
Captain
Posts: 166
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2014 10:09 pm

Thu Dec 18, 2014 2:37 am

oldspec4 wrote:I don't know the details re: the AI, etc. But I have received the traffic message in the message log and noticed significant hits (in a good way) to my movement and cohesion.


Nice! Let us know if it looks like the AI is launching attacks using two armies or more. :-)
"Mon centre céde, ma droite recule, situation excellente, j’attaque."
~ Ferdinand Foch, in the defensive actions to prevent a German breakthrough in 1914.

User avatar
Kensai
Posts: 2702
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:54 pm
Location: Freiburg, Germany

Thu Dec 18, 2014 6:41 pm

I am afraid that at higher levels it messes movement in wild and uncivilised regions, for examples the ones the Ottomans operate. The game already portrays movement in these areas unrealistically slow, we need to make sure it does not become worse because of traffic.

I suggest you use a low-mid value until all implications have been mapped.
Care to unify Germany as Austria? Recreate the Holy Roman Empire of the 20th Century:
Großdeutschland Mod
Are you tough enough to impersonate the Shogun and defy the Westerners? Prove it:
Shogun Defiance Mod (completed AAR)

oldspec4
Lieutenant Colonel
Posts: 251
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2006 1:14 pm

Fri Dec 19, 2014 12:23 am

Kensai wrote:I am afraid that at higher levels it messes movement in wild and uncivilised regions, for examples the ones the Ottomans operate. The game already portrays movement in these areas unrealistically slow, we need to make sure it does not become worse because of traffic.

I suggest you use a low-mid value until all implications have been mapped.


Yeah, I have the traffic set at the lowest setting for the reasons you have noted.

Still not sure of the total impact to both the AI and human player. But I have not seen any large power stacks in my current game.

User avatar
Highlandcharge
Posts: 702
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2011 11:44 am

Sun Jan 18, 2015 1:01 am

Has anybody got any more in depth info regarding what effect exactly the different slider settings actually do?

Thanks

User avatar
Taciturn Scot
Sergeant
Posts: 84
Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:00 am

Sun Jan 18, 2015 12:46 pm

I'd like to know too as this new feature seems to be creeping into PoN as well and probably will into Espana and the RUS Gold game too.

User avatar
Pocus
Posts: 25446
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 7:37 am
Location: Lyon (France)

Sun Jan 18, 2015 1:27 pm

No by default it's not active in these games. Cranking the slider results in higher cohesion loss, but try the standard before. In the final version there will be a direct slowdown in move, right now the slowdown is indirect and coming from your troops having a lower cohesion, so moving slowly.
Image


Hofstadter's Law: "It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's law."

Merlin
General
Posts: 581
Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 2:41 pm
Location: St. Paul, MN

Tue Jan 20, 2015 1:48 am

Right now in 1.01 it also seems to be affecting fleets. Large fleets near the CP limit take heavy cohesion loss which just wasn't there before. I don't know if this is an issue in 1.02.

User avatar
Pocus
Posts: 25446
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 7:37 am
Location: Lyon (France)

Tue Jan 20, 2015 9:52 am

Indeed, this will be fixed in next public beta patch. Thanks for the report.
Image


Hofstadter's Law: "It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's law."

User avatar
Highlandcharge
Posts: 702
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2011 11:44 am

Tue Jan 20, 2015 11:52 am

Hi pocus, I am just starting a few new pbem,s of EAW, is worth starting them or should we hold off until the public beta is released?


Is there a rough ETA on the patch?

Cheers

User avatar
Pocus
Posts: 25446
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 7:37 am
Location: Lyon (France)

Tue Jan 20, 2015 2:56 pm

There won't be major change now between the latest release candidate and the official patch, so you can safely start it now.
Image


Hofstadter's Law: "It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's law."

Return to “To End All Wars”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest