The Guru
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West 1914 scenario

Thu Nov 13, 2014 12:31 am

God I'm struggling to understand this game I really am...
I tried the first turn of the Western 1914 scenario twice: first surprising thing... not a single French attack!!! what happened to Plan XVII?? Then I set von Kluck in motion, assault posture, forced march and all, von Bulow too. End of the turn... they both stayed in Liège. ruins the turn, the campaign and the game. Why didn't they move? Did I do something wrong? (funny thing is, the only German unit to reach Brussels is... an air unit(!) - I expectedit to arrive on the wake of von kluck - ... and the region is still 100%)
I transfered the Hvy Arty to another corps (not wanting to slow down von Bulow), played fort bombardment on the region. Did it happen? I don't know... (oh and both times I got the message "Ghent has arrived in Oostende... Ghent is a city...)
I also grouped all my German fleet together and set them to sail. I had a gigantic encounter with jellicoe both times, with no ships sunk at all (!) Were all ships engaged? Only some of them? what happened? I need to know. It's much much too opaque.

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caranorn
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Thu Nov 13, 2014 10:09 am

Just about the Liège issue. While I'm not certain about the West 1914 setup I neverless expect that the fortress is still in Belgian hands. As long as the fortress is intact your forces will most likely be stopped by the Belgian's Zone of Control. Assuming the fortress starts breached (as it does in the historical campaign scenario) I would always assault with one army or a large corps (but without the siege guns) while the rest of the German forces move on into Belgium. Normally the assault will take place during the first 4 days or so of the turn, after which your other units can move towards their targets (even if the assault does not completely destroy the defenders, as long as they are significantly weakened the ZoC should be removed).

I just realised you set at least one army on assault in your example. Then the problm might be related to you issuing that force a move order too. Iirc if you didn't set it to red/red stance (not just assault but the other stance on red too) your force was essentially ordered to assault at the end of its movement only (at the target region) and not at it's starting region. As the force was blocked from moving by the Liège ZoC it did nothing and just stayed in place as you described.

Concerning the Fleet action. You should see which squadrons were engaged in the detailed battle report...
Marc aka Caran...

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Thu Nov 13, 2014 11:40 am

The other red stance? I thought it had to do with the intensity of the attack, not whether the attack is made at the beginning or the end of the movement... :confused: :confused: :confused:
I actually put both I and II armies in all-out assault mode and they remained immobile. Other forces in the region moved, although they moved through Louvain, which is already german-occupied. What is the meaning of the red-coloured regions?
What is this thing about attacking at the begginning or the end of the movement???

Where do I see the fort bombardment outcome?

And there is a detailed battle report??? :confused:
Where???,

There is also a problem with Belgian combat performance. I have Marwitz attacking Ghent and then Ostende (using forced march). His 3.700 meet 12.700 in Ghent, inflict 6.500 casualties and lose 700. Her proceeds to Ostende, his 3.000 meet 10.300, lose 820 and wipe ou the whole 10.300 defenders!!! The Belgians might not be the best fighters in the world, but this is WW2-Italian-like performance!

I also got a big naval engagement with the British losing a battleship squadron and a arm.cruiser squadron, the Germans losing nothing, and reported as a german defeat.

I don't get it, I really don't get it.

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caranorn
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Fri Nov 14, 2014 5:21 pm

The Guru wrote:The other red stance? I thought it had to do with the intensity of the attack, not whether the attack is made at the beginning or the end of the movement... :confused: :confused: :confused:
I actually put both I and II armies in all-out assault mode and they remained immobile. Other forces in the region moved, although they moved through Louvain, which is already german-occupied. What is the meaning of the red-coloured regions?
What is this thing about attacking at the begginning or the end of the movement???

Where do I see the fort bombardment outcome?

And there is a detailed battle report??? :confused:
Where???,

There is also a problem with Belgian combat performance. I have Marwitz attacking Ghent and then Ostende (using forced march). His 3.700 meet 12.700 in Ghent, inflict 6.500 casualties and lose 700. Her proceeds to Ostende, his 3.000 meet 10.300, lose 820 and wipe ou the whole 10.300 defenders!!! The Belgians might not be the best fighters in the world, but this is WW2-Italian-like performance!

I also got a big naval engagement with the British losing a battleship squadron and a arm.cruiser squadron, the Germans losing nothing, and reported as a german defeat.

I don't get it, I really don't get it.


The red coloured regions are the ones your force cannot enter from it's current location before the ZoC is removed. And yes, the red/red setting is not necessarily logical, iirc this was introduced in a PoN patch way back and has been around ever since. Essentially it was added as some players wanted to be able to assault a structure and continue moving (and assault structures in the regions moved through). I very rarely use it as often the original assault leaves a force too weak to risk advancing any further, not to mention you might end up assaulting a structure way beyond your capacity at sme point during a move. Which is why I recommended setting a single force on assault (without movement order) while others would have movement orders. Not sure this is covered in the manual...

For the bombardment RGD you should see an entry among your messages. Though I'm a bit astonished that you can even play a bombard RGD on Liège on the first turn, in the campaign game Liège starts with that RGD placed from the start (as it's already ordered you cannot play a second one of that regon that turn). But I haven't played for several weeks now and have no time to test this either...

In the battle report you should see which units got engaged, again I don't have time to start EAW up right now (not before monday for sure), hopefully someone else can help you out. But the information is in the game...

No idea why you got those results against the Belgians. Maybe superior leadership (still sounds like much (note, historically the Belgians gave the Germans a bloody nose on several occasions in 1914))? Maybe if you posted screenshots of the battle reports someone could help you...
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Sun Nov 16, 2014 10:51 pm

oK, so can anyone explain how to deal with the first turn? I'd like my armies to assault Liège and then proceed to assault Namur. How does one do that? I get the strangest results and have no idea why one army moves, why the other doesn't, why one reverts to the defensive when not asked to, why some are "blocked by X forces on the country side" and do not attack them as they are supposed to, why all corps in Lège can plot movement through Louvain but one corps is not allowed to ("cannot reach that destination" or something like that), why I pass through Brussels with the whole 1st German army and it ends the turn being 100% Entente, why the King of Belgium ends the turn in... Verdun, why are German horses bulletproof why does the message log say "Emden fortress shoots at Harwich force" or something like that , and then " thanks to our victory we took 400 rifles" "thanks to our victory we took 2000 prisoners" , (which victories???? against whom????? when???? where???? coastal batteries firing at passing ships???)

why, why , whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

aaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrgh :wacko: :bonk:

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H Gilmer3
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Sun Nov 23, 2014 3:17 am

The Guru wrote:The other red stance? I thought it had to do with the intensity of the attack, not whether the attack is made at the beginning or the end of the movement... :confused: :confused: :confused:
I actually put both I and II armies in all-out assault mode and they remained immobile. Other forces in the region moved, although they moved through Louvain, which is already german-occupied. What is the meaning of the red-coloured regions?
What is this thing about attacking at the begginning or the end of the movement???

Where do I see the fort bombardment outcome?

And there is a detailed battle report??? :confused:
Where???,

There is also a problem with Belgian combat performance. I have Marwitz attacking Ghent and then Ostende (using forced march). His 3.700 meet 12.700 in Ghent, inflict 6.500 casualties and lose 700. Her proceeds to Ostende, his 3.000 meet 10.300, lose 820 and wipe ou the whole 10.300 defenders!!! The Belgians might not be the best fighters in the world, but this is WW2-Italian-like performance!

I also got a big naval engagement with the British losing a battleship squadron and a arm.cruiser squadron, the Germans losing nothing, and reported as a german defeat.

I don't get it, I really don't get it.


I'll try to answer since it does not quite look like you were completely answered.

The OTHER red button means you have all out attack and assault posture. I have not played the Western Front 1914 scenario. As for the mix between a defeat and a win, you know in history, there are times when a force loses less than another but still is considered the loser because they "gave up the field". This happens common enough in these games to mention. So, you might inflict more losses on a naval formation, but if you retreat because they still overwhelmingly outnumber you, they could still be considered the victor.
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H Gilmer3
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Sun Nov 23, 2014 3:20 am

The Guru wrote:oK, so can anyone explain how to deal with the first turn? I'd like my armies to assault Liège and then proceed to assault Namur. How does one do that? I get the strangest results and have no idea why one army moves, why the other doesn't, why one reverts to the defensive when not asked to, why some are "blocked by X forces on the country side" and do not attack them as they are supposed to, why all corps in Lège can plot movement through Louvain but one corps is not allowed to ("cannot reach that destination" or something like that), why I pass through Brussels with the whole 1st German army and it ends the turn being 100% Entente, why the King of Belgium ends the turn in... Verdun, why are German horses bulletproof why does the message log say "Emden fortress shoots at Harwich force" or something like that , and then " thanks to our victory we took 400 rifles" "thanks to our victory we took 2000 prisoners" , (which victories???? against whom????? when???? where???? coastal batteries firing at passing ships???)

why, why , whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

aaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrgh :wacko: :bonk:




Put them on all out attack and assault posture. The reason some armies don't move is sometimes the game thinks that the leader isn't a good leader and he takes a lot longer to get moving. You see this in messages that say, "Blah blah blah, such and such was delayed in moving".

As for taking prisoners that is a land against land fight. It is buried in the messages somewhere, you just need to be able to decipher the messages. they may seem incomprehensible, but I figured them out so anyone should be able to. It will usually tell you about a victory, then tell you about prisoners caught and supply captured.
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Mon Nov 24, 2014 1:41 am

you just need to be able to decipher the messages. they may seem incomprehensible


it's a bit of a pity that one needs to put so much effort into deciphering the messages in order to try and have some sort of picture of what is happening and where.
I may sound complicated, but there are so many oddities and incoherences left that it kinda ruins the game for me.... Is there a new patch planned for soon? I really really wanted to love this game ...

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H Gilmer3
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Mon Nov 24, 2014 4:29 am

The Guru wrote:it's a bit of a pity that one needs to put so much effort into deciphering the messages in order to try and have some sort of picture of what is happening and where.
I may sound complicated, but there are so many oddities and incoherences left that it kinda ruins the game for me.... Is there a new patch planned for soon? I really really wanted to love this game ...


You make some good points. I think if they did something with messages and maybe tooltips that would make things a lot better for people, they would see a lot more people interested.

For example. I'll take a battle from one of my recent games..... Joseph Gallieni attacks Richard Von Conta and Galieni has 300,000 troops against 67K. Now, to get people more interested, and I don't know how feasible it would be, but if they listed all the formations and generals that marched to the sound of guns and from what region. And gave more information, I think people would enjoy that a lot more. Right now it is done all by icons and makes it hard to understand unless you have played the game a lot.
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Mon Nov 24, 2014 9:22 am

Well, something like one single message that provides all the narrative elements that are currently dispersed between vague messages in the message log and little icons that you have to click on and God knows where else.

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Tue Nov 25, 2014 8:51 am

I believe this has been mentioned before, but I get loss results from French attacks ( turn one, never went beyond) ranging from 70.000 to 95.000 per battle. That is deliriously too high...

Also, the Belgian Army behaves strangely, doesn't retreat to Antwerp, keeps a very forward position, evn moving into the Ardennes, and the King of Belgium even ended up in Verdun in one occasion...

romatrei
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Tue Apr 07, 2015 10:34 pm

I know I am digging up this thread but I gave the scenario a look playing as the French and I do not know if that is normal but I have close to no troops to face the German Armies attacking. I don't know if it's a matter of launching the historical Plan and putting the units on the map or if I'm just stupid but it looks like a problem. :innocent:

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Philippe
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Tue Apr 07, 2015 11:35 pm

Take what I say with a grain of salt since I've never played the game, but I believe the first turn of the scenario is for picking your mobilization plan. Your troops should show up next turn.

Nico165
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Wed Apr 08, 2015 12:04 am

Nah, there is something wrong here... I don't see any french units from 1st, 2nd and 3rd army on the map. Those are the units supposed to be on map to enact plan XVII. It's a scenario, you're not supposed to chose a warplan to get the units.

I don't remember seeing this problem when the scenario appeared with patch 1.01. It's something new coming from 1.02. I see the file was modified in february.

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Erik Springelkamp
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Wed Apr 08, 2015 5:22 pm

Bump.

I have been playing this scenario, and indeed the French have hardly anything on the Eastern border, and also, historically, hardly anything near Paris.

And the French don't have a GHQ. Until now I assumed this represented the attack on the border with Germany that was not supposed to be part of the scenario, but then the Germans started (modest) attacks on that front as well.

Still led to a draw result though.

Altaris
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Thu Apr 09, 2015 1:57 am

You guys are correct, there was a bug in the OOB script causing French armies not to spawn properly. I have corrected files and sent to AGEOD team, should be fixed for next patch release. This was only an issue on the West Front 1914 scenario.

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