Merlin
General
Posts: 581
Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 2:41 pm
Location: St. Paul, MN

Tue Sep 09, 2014 12:11 pm

Wallensteinwojtek wrote:Maybe decreased numbers of Rail Points and also divided between CP countries?


I don't think the game, as designed, can do this.

Reiryc
Posts: 561
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 10:47 pm
Location: kansas

Tue Sep 09, 2014 12:27 pm

Kensai wrote:
The Central Powers start at a better ammunition production capacity than the other nations. But if you go heavy on artillery, which you should go, you will need some of them for the later years anyway.


I never get to the later years... always win in 1915. Granted this is against the ai.

User avatar
H Gilmer3
AGEod Veteran
Posts: 795
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2011 2:57 am
Location: United States of America

Tue Sep 09, 2014 12:35 pm

Shri wrote:I don't think AMMO Factories give WSU or do they?? i have not observed the same.

5-6 Ammo factories spread over should be enough i guess. i.e. 30-40 Ammo per Turn, your initial position also gives some ammo per turn, about 100 per turn is more than enough, calculate it for each faction but in my opinion 100 per turn generation is more than enough, better to spread it around in big cities having multiple rail nodes and also one near the port.

If WE- one in EGYPT.


I think Reiryc and I agreed I was wrong about the war supply assertion.
To End All Wars AAR in the War Room. Join us as we laugh, we cry, we drink beer, and we joke on how badly I play......

http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?36936-To-End-All-Wars-AAR-Western-Entente-against-the-AI-of-Central-Powers!

Stelteck
Colonel
Posts: 308
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2011 8:33 am

Tue Sep 09, 2014 12:36 pm

Even if a very large railroad pool is historical, it may be interesting to lower it for game and fun purpose. Remember that it is a game and that the campaign shall be balanced for multiplayer and fun.

There is also some factor we can use :

- We can increase the attrition factor of the railroad capacity. (Especially for points used).
- Point used for troop transportation (not supply) could return with a delay. For example if you use 100% of the pool one turn, you only have 50% avaible the next turn, then 75% the second turn, then 87%% the third turn, etc.....
- We can create a different railroad capacity attrition level according to how much we use the point. For example, if we use 100% of the force pool one turn, attrition could be 10% because of the overuse of equipement&rail&ferry. But only 2% if we use only 50% of the pool.

There is a lot of interesting solutions

User avatar
Highlandcharge
Posts: 702
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2011 11:44 am

Tue Sep 09, 2014 1:28 pm

Hi all, thanks for all your interest :)

I think a combination of suggestions maybe the key.. Stelteck-We can increase the attrition factor of the railroad capacity (to represent the time it takes reforming the Corps, division and guns back into coherent units)

I like Kensai's idea for an event driven rail capacity surge, I know Germany shifted the whole German army in 1914, but they must have requisitioned almost almost all the "public" rolling stock to do this, in the game at present they have that level of rolling stock for the whole war, its doesn't make sense to me... maybe a surge event that costs NM and/or some VP's(to represent the taking of rolling stock) is the answer...

Thought's ?

Edit... I just did a test, it takes 26 days (lets say 2 turns)for prince Rupprecht's army to get from Morhange on the western front to Konigsberg on the Eastern front, that seems pretty realistic to me, its just the amount of rolling stock I think there to much of...

Reiryc
Posts: 561
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 10:47 pm
Location: kansas

Tue Sep 09, 2014 1:49 pm

Highlandcharge wrote:Hi all, thanks for all your interest :)

I think a combination of suggestions maybe the key.. Stelteck-We can increase the attrition factor of the railroad capacity (to represent the time it takes reforming the Corps, division and guns back into coherent units)

I like Kensai's idea for an event driven rail capacity surge, I know Germany shifted the whole German army in 1914, but they must have requisitioned almost almost all the "public" rolling stock to do this, in the game at present they have that level of rolling stock for the whole war, its doesn't make sense to me... maybe a surge event that costs NM and/or some VP's(to represent the taking of rolling stock) is the answer...

Thought's ?

Edit... I just did a test, it takes 26 days (lets say 2 turns)for prince Rupprecht's army to get from Morhange on the western front to Konigsberg on the Eastern front, that seems pretty realistic to me, its just the amount of rolling stock I think there to much of...


Just a reminder.. the rail stock is not just Germany's, but all of the cp's mashed into 1 pool. That pool grows as more nations join the alliance.

User avatar
Highlandcharge
Posts: 702
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2011 11:44 am

Tue Sep 09, 2014 1:56 pm

Fair enough Reiryc...

Shame there is no way to split the rail pool up between the central powers, maybe in pbem a house rule could be proposed...

User avatar
Templer
General
Posts: 591
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 2:33 pm
Contact: Website

Running Offtopic

Tue Sep 09, 2014 2:04 pm

Gentlemen please.

This is an ammunition thread.
Lest we ever go offtopic, perhaps post for railway capacity issues here: -> [color="#ADD8E6"]Railway Capacity Too High[/color].

The forum is not only for discussion but is also for assistance if someone looking for help.

This would require a bit of structure. :)
Greetings
Templer

User avatar
Highlandcharge
Posts: 702
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2011 11:44 am

Tue Sep 09, 2014 2:20 pm

Sorry we hijacked your thread, thanks for starting another for us :D

User avatar
James D Burns
Posts: 561
Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2006 12:28 am
Location: Salida, CA

Tue Sep 09, 2014 5:02 pm

Kensai wrote:Ideally we could have a surge in railway capacity as an one-shot event, just to simulate this aspect. Its condition could be the firing of the Brest-Litovsk peace. I really want to see railway capacity decreased for the challenge. It's useless now, almost gamey.


Unless you have some historical reason for adding this to the game, I am completely and utterly against this. This is supposed to be an historical game so base any changes made in game to historical facts not because you want to make the puzzle harder to solve.

I suspect the reason there is such a glut of rail in game is because you are playing so many countries and are using all that rail as one big pool. The problem should be addressed by giving each country its own historical rail lift capacity based on factual historical lift abilities. So the rail pool needs to be changed or a scenario that divides all countries into their own faction needs to be created.

I personally think the real limiting factor of rail moves should be handled on a per line basis. In other words you would have almost unlimited lift over the two week turn, but only so many trains (measured in the same way naval load costs are measured perhaps) could pass over a given rail region. Once that limit was reached any further moves would need to divert to other regions that still had capacity. You could then give densely urbanized regions much higher capacities than say a small track crossing a desert region due to the fact there was a lot more available local rolling stock in those areas.

Edit: Sorry posted this before seeing the off-topic post.

Jim

daztek
Conscript
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun May 12, 2013 2:11 am
Location: Canberra

Tue Sep 09, 2014 11:08 pm

Isn't the result of this whole railway discussion that Germany had enough trains (11,000) to move its entire land force if it had to, as it in fact did in August 1914? And therefore, at any point afterwards Germany could not have had any shortage of rail capacity, which is reflected in the game.

User avatar
caranorn
Posts: 1332
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 10:20 pm
Location: Luxembourg

Wed Sep 10, 2014 6:52 am

Yep, most countries used rail for mobilisation, including moving their armies (with equipment) to the front. One should not forget that WWI might very well be the hight of railroads. While I've noticed players having almost unlimited capacity, I haven't feeled bothered by it so far...
Marc aka Caran...

User avatar
H Gilmer3
AGEod Veteran
Posts: 795
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2011 2:57 am
Location: United States of America

Thu Sep 11, 2014 4:16 am

Ammunition - To have or not to have.

Well, that question is answered for me. I have 5000+ ammunition!!!
To End All Wars AAR in the War Room. Join us as we laugh, we cry, we drink beer, and we joke on how badly I play......



http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?36936-To-End-All-Wars-AAR-Western-Entente-against-the-AI-of-Central-Powers!

RGA
Lieutenant Colonel
Posts: 259
Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 9:22 am
Location: Britains oldest recorded town.

Thu Sep 11, 2014 7:56 am

H Gilmer3 wrote:Ammunition - To have or not to have.

Well, that question is answered for me. I have 5000+ ammunition!!!


5000!!!!

How many munitions factories and artillery pieces have you got ?

User avatar
H Gilmer3
AGEod Veteran
Posts: 795
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2011 2:57 am
Location: United States of America

Thu Sep 11, 2014 12:24 pm

I have about 20 munitions factories. (I kind of lost count while I was building them and kept thinking I needed more). I have build a lot of artillery. But, maybe not enough? I'm the WE. It seems like in every battle I have more artillery than the CP.
To End All Wars AAR in the War Room. Join us as we laugh, we cry, we drink beer, and we joke on how badly I play......



http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?36936-To-End-All-Wars-AAR-Western-Entente-against-the-AI-of-Central-Powers!

Reiryc
Posts: 561
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 10:47 pm
Location: kansas

Thu Sep 11, 2014 1:55 pm

H Gilmer3 wrote:I have about 20 munitions factories. (I kind of lost count while I was building them and kept thinking I needed more). I have build a lot of artillery. But, maybe not enough? I'm the WE. It seems like in every battle I have more artillery than the CP.


wow...

How much ammunition do you typically have available after each turn---5000?

User avatar
LoupVert
Sergeant
Posts: 69
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2014 2:47 pm
Location: Marche-en-Famenne, Belgique
Contact: Website

Sat Sep 13, 2014 7:56 pm

How do you guys use your Munition train? (the unit with ammo boxes in its portrait)

I'm wondering where to use them and if I need to build some more.

User avatar
H Gilmer3
AGEod Veteran
Posts: 795
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2011 2:57 am
Location: United States of America

Sat Sep 13, 2014 8:30 pm

I have not built any munitions trains, but there were some already on the map. I am unsure how they work.

On a side note to the thread, I ended up with 8000+ in ammunition.
To End All Wars AAR in the War Room. Join us as we laugh, we cry, we drink beer, and we joke on how badly I play......



http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?36936-To-End-All-Wars-AAR-Western-Entente-against-the-AI-of-Central-Powers!

User avatar
Jim-NC
Posts: 2981
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2009 4:21 pm
Location: Near Region 209, North Carolina

Sat Sep 13, 2014 11:06 pm

LoupVert wrote:How do you guys use your Munition train? (the unit with ammo boxes in its portrait)

I'm wondering where to use them and if I need to build some more.


I attach them to my units using ammo of course. I find units with Heavy and Super Heavy artillery, and attach the trains. These units carry 20 ammo, whereas the individual artillery carry like 4. This allows them to fight in more battles.
Remember - The beatings will continue until morale improves.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

Merlin
General
Posts: 581
Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 2:41 pm
Location: St. Paul, MN

Sun Sep 14, 2014 12:22 am

MUN units should be paired with stacks containing MA, HA, or SHA. Currently, MA uses 4 per battery per battle, HA 6, and SHA 8.

User avatar
LoupVert
Sergeant
Posts: 69
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2014 2:47 pm
Location: Marche-en-Famenne, Belgique
Contact: Website

Sun Sep 14, 2014 12:43 am

Thanks a lot Jim-NC and Merlin for that enlightenment!

User avatar
germanpeon
Private
Posts: 30
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2011 2:15 am
Location: Massachusetts

Sun Sep 14, 2014 2:50 am

I believe the utility of munitions supply units is sort of as a mobile depot, in the same way one would use a regular supply unit. That is to say that it pulls ammo in the supply distibution phase. Because ammo is less abundant than supply, this pull can be quite important, particularly where long supply lines are concerned.

Merlin
General
Posts: 581
Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 2:41 pm
Location: St. Paul, MN

Sun Sep 14, 2014 3:19 am

MUN units work as the other half of a supply unit. Where previous AGEOD games had ammo and supply together, EAW separates them and makes ammo a requirement of artillery batteries. Apportion them accordingly.

User avatar
Kensai
Posts: 2702
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:54 pm
Location: Freiburg, Germany

Sun Sep 14, 2014 8:07 am

germanpeon wrote:I believe the utility of munitions supply units is sort of as a mobile depot, in the same way one would use a regular supply unit. That is to say that it pulls ammo in the supply distibution phase. Because ammo is less abundant than supply, this pull can be quite important, particularly where long supply lines are concerned.


Well, when they become empty somewhere in the front, you need to turn them back to home depots to get refills. :)
Care to unify Germany as Austria? Recreate the Holy Roman Empire of the 20th Century:
Großdeutschland Mod
Are you tough enough to impersonate the Shogun and defy the Westerners? Prove it:
Shogun Defiance Mod (completed AAR)

User avatar
germanpeon
Private
Posts: 30
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2011 2:15 am
Location: Massachusetts

Sun Sep 14, 2014 4:56 pm

Kensai wrote:Well, when they become empty somewhere in the front, you need to turn them back to home depots to get refills. :)


Having only played the artillery-deficient EE I can't speak to those factions which have plenty, but I've never seen an ammo supply unit low, and I've only built three ammo factories. I believe the pull power of the ammo supply units must be pretty significant to gather it from my nationwide stocks of no more than a few hundred ammo.

User avatar
H Gilmer3
AGEod Veteran
Posts: 795
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2011 2:57 am
Location: United States of America

Sun Sep 14, 2014 5:30 pm

Reiryc wrote:wow...

How much ammunition do you typically have available after each turn---5000?


Well, it's quite obvious that I misused my ammunition in some fashion because I never had a shortage, like it was historically.
To End All Wars AAR in the War Room. Join us as we laugh, we cry, we drink beer, and we joke on how badly I play......



http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?36936-To-End-All-Wars-AAR-Western-Entente-against-the-AI-of-Central-Powers!

User avatar
H Gilmer3
AGEod Veteran
Posts: 795
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2011 2:57 am
Location: United States of America

Sun Sep 14, 2014 5:31 pm

LoupVert wrote:Thanks a lot Jim-NC and Merlin for that enlightenment!


Yes. This has helped me understand more as well.
To End All Wars AAR in the War Room. Join us as we laugh, we cry, we drink beer, and we joke on how badly I play......



http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?36936-To-End-All-Wars-AAR-Western-Entente-against-the-AI-of-Central-Powers!

Altaris
Posts: 1543
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:20 pm

Mon Sep 15, 2014 4:21 am

We are doing some major tweaks to munitions usage in the latest beta patch, it will become more important (and stockpiles will be used up faster). Still testing and tweaking, but some important changes are coming which should both increase the importance of the bigger guns, and make shell shortages more prevalent (at least in early game).

User avatar
Kensai
Posts: 2702
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:54 pm
Location: Freiburg, Germany

Mon Sep 15, 2014 6:49 am

Good to know, Altaris. Jee, people would eat my head if I dared to express here that indeed ammo consumption was too low... :p
Care to unify Germany as Austria? Recreate the Holy Roman Empire of the 20th Century:

Großdeutschland Mod

Are you tough enough to impersonate the Shogun and defy the Westerners? Prove it:

Shogun Defiance Mod (completed AAR)

User avatar
Highlandcharge
Posts: 702
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2011 11:44 am

Mon Sep 15, 2014 7:37 am

thanks Altaris, the game should have way more historical ammo levels and ammo usage now...

In fact I am waiting for these particular changes in the new patch to restart couple of pbem games I have put on pause because of these issues.

Return to “To End All Wars”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest