User avatar
GlobalExplorer
AGEod Veteran
Posts: 777
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 4:35 pm
Location: Berlin
Contact: Website

Sun May 25, 2014 10:30 pm

EDIT: already answered by Altaris

Altaris
Posts: 1543
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:20 pm

Mon May 26, 2014 1:48 am

Yes, the neutral nations can end up allied to either side. The only exceptions are Great Britain and United States, which will never join the Central Powers (but may remain neutral).

The Balkans have the most flexibility. In particular, if the Central Powers do not recognize Bulgaria's claims on Serbia, it's far more likely to have the Balkan nations up for grabs on either side (though this will also likely mean their entry later in the war, like late 1916 or early 1917). So, as an example, the Recognize Bulgaria's Claims event gives the Central Powers +20% loyalty with Builgaria, but at a cost of Greece, Romania, and Serbia moving +20% towards Entente (in Serbia's case, this means boosting their morale at home, since they are already allied to Entente). Then, when/if Bulgaria actually joins the Central Powers, Greece and Romania move another +10% towards Entente. So there's a total net +30% swing for Greece and Romania, which really heavily puts them in the Entente court. Now, whether this is a bad thing or not is up to the player, since Bulgaria has a better military than the other two, and with proper courting, can be in the Centrals alliance in 1915, whereas the other two are likely to take longer.

Italy and Ottoman Empire have a lot of possibilities too, though it takes some costly measures to swing them ahistorical directions.

The Centrals have two key options they can play early on, the first is a substantial 500 State Funds (Money) donation to the Ottomans (essentially a big loan), and the other is the Goeben & Breslau event (which can be averted if these ships can be sunk in the first turn in the Mediterranean, but catching them is tough). Each of these swing the Ottomans +10% towards the Centrals (they start at 60% Centrals/40% Entente). The British have the option of giving the Ottomans the Agincourt and Erin battleships, which will move Ottomans back +10% towards Entente, but this means the Ottomans have a slightly better navy with which to threaten the Entente. It's very tough for the Ottomans to end up on the Entente side, but it's quite possible to delay their entry a bit, and if the Centrals don't play either of their events, it's in the realm of possibility they might eventually join the Entente.

Italy is tough to influence either way in 1914, but in 1915 a bunch of options come open. The biggest one the Centrals can play is letting Austria cede the Italian claims in Trieste and Trento areas, which moves Italy +25% towards Centrals but gives up really good defensive regions on the Italian/Austrian border and severely harms Austrian homefront loyalty. But it will at least keep the Italians out of the war for quite a while, perhaps the whole war if the Centrals maintain diplomatic pressure. The Entente have more options they can play, including D'Annuzio (which is low cost +10% loyalty), Recognizing Italian War Goals (+20% Entente loyalty, but Austrian homefront loyalty is boosted heavily and Centrals get +5 NM, NOTE: this option becomes unavailable if Austria has given concessions!), and Tunisia to Italy (+10% Entente loyalty, but France loses loyalty on its homefront and Western Entente suffer -5 NM, -100 VP). Italy has the most flexibility of the "major powers", but its costly to either side to swing it away from historical path.

In practice, it's very tough to see an ahistorical alliance occur (though it can happen), but it's very viable to see nations remain neutral much longer than they actually did, with the right choices made.

User avatar
Ironclad61
Major
Posts: 229
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 6:51 pm

Mon May 26, 2014 9:50 am

Well, the Italy situation was very special... on the paper they were part of Triple Alliance, in reality they play an ambush role waiting to join the winning side in war... is any way to see Italy moving pro entente or pro central powers based in war performance of both alliances??? not only via events.

UK... well, at least is possible have them out of war as neutral power BUT maybe the problem i see is if the player control France+UK maybe can use some kind of gamy situation??? for example moving navy to German coast or blocking central powers comercial routes??? i asume that a neutral nation can do it on sea.

A little question, how can deal the french/UK player with plan XVII??? he can avoid it if pay a great penalization in initial movilization???or simple wait the german hammer (if decide go for France and not Rusia) doesnt affect the french?

Thanks.

User avatar
Ace
Posts: 3498
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 4:33 pm
Location: Croatia

Mon May 26, 2014 10:02 am

So many question...
I'm glad this title is raising so much interest. I hope Altaris has the time to answer them all, he is designing the game while answering all those questions :) )

Well, as fair as I know, Italy was having pretty large territorial demands for the Southern Tirol and the Croatian coastline. If in some alternate history Austria-Hungary excepted those demands, I am pretty sure Italy would joined them. In fact, Italy only joined the Entente once those same territories were promised to them by the London treaty of 1915. This is part of my local history. I live in the territories that were supposed to be handed over to Italy.

User avatar
Kensai
Posts: 2702
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:54 pm
Location: Freiburg, Germany

Mon May 26, 2014 10:16 am

Thanks, Altaris, very descriptive! :)

Altaris wrote:In practice, it's very tough to see an ahistorical alliance occur (though it can happen), but it's very viable to see nations remain neutral much longer than they actually did, with the right choices made.


I agree. This should be the way. However, I really hope that you give some bias for AI actions that still allows for Athena to make ahistorical choices for her coalition. I would suggest a 67-33% bias, generally, ie 2 out of 3 times the AI may select the historical choice and only 1 out of three the ahistorical. So we end, most of the times, with the historical situation while still leaving a huge percentage of possibilities (33%) of seeing unexpected stuff going on.
Care to unify Germany as Austria? Recreate the Holy Roman Empire of the 20th Century:
Großdeutschland Mod
Are you tough enough to impersonate the Shogun and defy the Westerners? Prove it:
Shogun Defiance Mod (completed AAR)

User avatar
GlobalExplorer
AGEod Veteran
Posts: 777
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 4:35 pm
Location: Berlin
Contact: Website

Mon May 26, 2014 10:44 am

So many possibilities with only a few variables, great. I hope Altaris' system is robust enough to delay/accelerate entry of several Nations, and in certain cases swing them entirely.
I think it is important that the swing case should normally only happen if player (or AI) actively pursues it and pays for it. It should not happen by accident, at least most of the time.
For example it could be said that Germany paid for Turkeys entry, and persuaded them for a long time. Had they not done that Turkey would have stayed out, I guess.

User avatar
Pocus
Posts: 25423
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 7:37 am
Location: Lyon (France)

Mon May 26, 2014 10:46 am

Fascinating discussions! I really like how Altaris go into details :)

As for beta testing, you should direct your requests to Tamas.

Minor side note: WW1 gold is not using an heavily modified version of the AGE engine, but an heavily modified version of Great Invasions game.
Image


Hofstadter's Law: "It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's law."

User avatar
GlobalExplorer
AGEod Veteran
Posts: 777
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 4:35 pm
Location: Berlin
Contact: Website

Mon May 26, 2014 10:57 am

What about revolutions? The events in Russia are well known. We also know the Germans played a part in it, so it might be something the player can influence, sending Ulyanov to Russia and so on.
I wouldn't expect detailed simulation of revolutions, more like big hits in NM and units becoming completely inactive through revolts. A lot of that could be done via activation rule, but on the soldiers level, not only the commanders,

France was also on the brink of revolution, and in 1917 French soldiers mutinied on the whole front. It was a strike, not a revolution. They were patriots and had no intention of giving up arms or stopping to defend France. After the strike they returned, as some observer noted, in "perfect order". But the impact of such an event could be that you can forget any offensive action for some time, need to sack certain, unpopular commanders, and spend more for the well being of your soldiers.

Germany was not far from revolution, it finally erupted in 1918-1919. In Britain it was different, but trade unions played a very peculiar role. Strikes by discontented workers were frequent (and often referred to as a shameful fact, Britons in arms factories etc went on strikes for higher wages, while other Britons were dying in the trenches).

User avatar
GlobalExplorer
AGEod Veteran
Posts: 777
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 4:35 pm
Location: Berlin
Contact: Website

Mon May 26, 2014 10:58 am

Pocus wrote:Minor side note: WW1 gold is not using an heavily modified version of the AGE engine, but an heavily modified version of Great Invasions game.


Yeah, I was wondering what he meant, too ..

User avatar
Le Ricain
Posts: 3282
Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2006 12:21 am
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland

Mon May 26, 2014 11:03 am

Interesting note on choice of engine. If the WWI game is using modified version of the Great Invasions game, ie a fixed version, does this mean that the game engine can be used in a Great Invasions II game?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

'Nous voilà, Lafayette'

Colonel C.E. Stanton, aide to A.E.F. commander John 'Black Jack' Pershing, upon the landing of the first US troops in France 1917

User avatar
PhilThib
Posts: 13705
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2005 5:21 pm
Location: Meylan (France)

Mon May 26, 2014 11:08 am

Le Ricain wrote:Interesting note on choice of engine. If the WWI game is using modified version of the Great Invasions game, ie a fixed version, does this mean that the game engine can be used in a Great Invasions II game?


Most probably, but as far as I know Calvinus has no time (or will) to do that.... :)
Image

User avatar
GlobalExplorer
AGEod Veteran
Posts: 777
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 4:35 pm
Location: Berlin
Contact: Website

Mon May 26, 2014 11:14 am

Has this been asked already: what is the length of turns and how many turns can we expect, approximately?

User avatar
Ace
Posts: 3498
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 4:33 pm
Location: Croatia

Mon May 26, 2014 11:31 am

It's been published in the news preview report that the turn length is 15 days.

User avatar
Lindi
General
Posts: 510
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2012 6:21 pm
Location: Province de Québec (Montréal)

Mon May 26, 2014 11:31 am

So,

Italy with 5 000 000 men can change the side, and USA and British not go with French :bonk: .


Just for question if I play Germany and I have that, or only Italy go with me, the objectif lose pv and my total pv lose many pv for the French and British have a chance to win with pv?

I ask because if 5 000 0000 change side I guess the French-British can't win. (Take Berlin in PBM...)


(Yes I know Italy troop is not the best troop in this war, but it's very much troop.)

User avatar
Ironclad61
Major
Posts: 229
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 6:51 pm

Mon May 26, 2014 12:23 pm

More than Italy change side is Italy do their part in Triple alliance, the situation of Ottomans is more... complex they are influenced by Germans BUT know that UK mantein Rusia under control and they can control the sea around them... the Ottoman empire is very weak because needs fight in a distant area in south with not specially good internal comunications... see Gallipoli, close to disaster, if UK-France launch the attack in the Ottoman rear in Palestine when they have all in the Canal...

The what if factor in game looks strong enough, here i allways like have multiple scens to explore from the beginning plausible situations... like Italy joining central powers after Ottoman empire do it.

Rusian revolution ummm something that maybe needs be have in value is that central powers need leave some forces in the area to defend their countries from the "revolutionary disease" and have some events to send forces to reduce the power of red Rusia... think in Help they send to Finland for example... if you leave with no control revolutioarny Rusia maybe it can enter in war again or can increase the revolutionary problem in central powers reducing morale of something similar.

Maybe something i am curious about is how you can control the casualties, i refer know the number of casualties between 2 dates for example... i dont ask about know this for certain area of combat but maybe the casualties area needs more details like graphic representations or similar.

Game looks promising lets see the influence of

User avatar
GlobalExplorer
AGEod Veteran
Posts: 777
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 4:35 pm
Location: Berlin
Contact: Website

Mon May 26, 2014 3:36 pm

Ace wrote:It's been published in the news preview report that the turn length is 15 days.


thanks. That means ca 120 turns right?

User avatar
Ironclad61
Major
Posts: 229
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 6:51 pm

Mon May 26, 2014 6:11 pm

More around 104 or 105-106 in the scen covering the settings in prewar.

Not specially long and not specially short... but like in the spanish civil war title i feel game has a serious lack in sub-scenarios, you know, start main campaign in 1915/16/17/18 or one scen only covering west front, east front or the middle east front.

User avatar
Kensai
Posts: 2702
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:54 pm
Location: Freiburg, Germany

Mon May 26, 2014 7:02 pm

It would be cool to have a DNO-like alternative reality scenarios in EAW. I would be delighted to author one, once the game comes out. :)
Care to unify Germany as Austria? Recreate the Holy Roman Empire of the 20th Century:

Großdeutschland Mod

Are you tough enough to impersonate the Shogun and defy the Westerners? Prove it:

Shogun Defiance Mod (completed AAR)

User avatar
GlobalExplorer
AGEod Veteran
Posts: 777
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 4:35 pm
Location: Berlin
Contact: Website

Mon May 26, 2014 7:32 pm

GlobalExplorer wrote:thanks. That means ca 120 turns right?


I assume it is planned to release that as an addon, once it is available.

User avatar
GlobalExplorer
AGEod Veteran
Posts: 777
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 4:35 pm
Location: Berlin
Contact: Website

Mon May 26, 2014 7:39 pm

Ironclad61 wrote:More around 104 or 105-106 in the scen covering the settings in prewar.


Yes, of course. It had never occured to me that WW1 lasted 1566 days, I always believed it was closer to 5 years, when in fact it was a little over 4 years. 1566/15 = ~104

WW2 was over after 2191 days, or six years and 1 day. In Europe, 4 months less.

I wonder, can the campaign last longer than November? Or is it always automatically over?

User avatar
Ironclad61
Major
Posts: 229
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 6:51 pm

Tue May 27, 2014 9:32 am

Interesting point... maybe you can play some extra months??? until 1919??? this or when you arrive to the official end of war date all nations suffer a penalty in morale every turn until one bite the dust.

Something i want know about the static fronts... how works in total static situations??? when both sides defend... units in front line suffer casualties to simulate the patrols, local attacks etc etc??? And what about assaults??? if you give to a front line unit an assault or attack posture... the unit lose all his entrenchment??? if in middle war entrenchment is all and if you lose this when give a non defensive posture to a front line...

Thanks.

User avatar
Ace
Posts: 3498
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 4:33 pm
Location: Croatia

Tue May 27, 2014 11:15 am

The game can last up to 1919. It can be won either by NM victory, by shattering enemy morale or by VP victory after the expiration date. During the entire war, nations suffer war wariness, not just after 1918, so NM levels are usually below 100 NM.

User avatar
Ironclad61
Major
Posts: 229
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 6:51 pm

Tue May 27, 2014 1:22 pm

Thanks for the reply.

I see, i only ask if after official end war date this negative effects are increased but as is in game is good dont see a fixed date to scen termination.

User avatar
Metatron
Posts: 131
Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2012 1:35 pm
Location: Potsdam (Germany)

Tue May 27, 2014 1:29 pm

I assume that like in other ageod games you can continue past the VP win deadline, just need to ignore the victory/defeat pop ups and go on. I did that a couple of times when the game was just to much fun to stop it on predetermined date.

User avatar
Uawcat
Corporal
Posts: 45
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:55 pm
Location: Rheinland-Pfalz, Germany

Tue May 27, 2014 2:33 pm

Is there some mechanism forcing a coalition to attack or lose NM (like for example Grand Offensives in WWI or Newspapers push for offensive in CW2)?

User avatar
Ace
Posts: 3498
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 4:33 pm
Location: Croatia

Tue May 27, 2014 4:23 pm

If the Western Entente does not try offensives against Germans, Russia will have hard time holding the Germans. If Russia doesn't press Austria-Hungary early on, Serbia will have hard time holding their own against the Austrians, so natural gameplay pretty much forces the players to be active or suffer the consequence.

User avatar
Ironclad61
Major
Posts: 229
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 6:51 pm

Wed May 28, 2014 9:31 am

This is the good thing in WWI you need do something all the time because wait means give enemy iniciative... specially in central powers, they need defend a lot of terrain VS nations that control sea... if you leave them do it.

Maybe here i am curious about the naval warfare, is possible for germans and AH try break the blockage using their navies or sub war is the only way???.

Thanks.

User avatar
Ace
Posts: 3498
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 4:33 pm
Location: Croatia

Wed May 28, 2014 9:52 am

They can try, but they have no chance to do it. Royal Navy is too strong for them, and losing dreadnoughts in Jutland type battle upsets the Home front rather heavily. So the best strategy for Germans is to try some hit and run tactics.

Baris
AGEod Guard of Honor
Posts: 1914
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:50 pm

Wed May 28, 2014 3:01 pm

Will it have mandatory offensives like in WW1 Gold ex: Caucasus Front. Like being in native theater for a time then without moving forward units lose cohesion by event?

Ace wrote:If the Western Entente does not try offensives against Germans, Russia will have hard time holding the Germans. If Russia doesn't press Austria-Hungary early on, Serbia will have hard time holding their own against the Austrians, so natural gameplay pretty much forces the players to be active or suffer the consequence.


It is good part of the WW1. Balkan diplomacy and shifting sides should also be interesting as well as careful allocation of forces in eastern theater.

User avatar
Ironclad61
Major
Posts: 229
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 6:51 pm

Wed May 28, 2014 3:27 pm

I see, lets see how works the naval warfare but this is maybe the only area where as german you can win more than you can lose in the use of your warships.

This is one of the best examples of "gamy" situation in a WWI title but a gamy situation for both sides, a russian player and an Ottoman player (alone both not controled as secondary with other nations) really dont try nothing in Caucasus because both know win something is very hard and they need resources in other areas (specially Ottomans until they find the entente area where try engage them) but even if you force both sides fight in Caucasus... dont expect this be a main action area even the biggest penalty is going to be lower than an attack in the horrible terrain in Caucasus.

The question for me is how eat resources static fronts, unlike other AGEOD games i have here a province that has troops from 2 diferent sides (even when there is not a battle and both are in defensive postures) needs in WWI offer all the time a continous casualty increase think in 2 weeks how many patrols, bombardements, air attacks etc etc are in an area with no clear owner... you know, you dont need fight to win terrain to suffer loses, hold terrain agains another defensive enemy not only have disease casualties.

Return to “To End All Wars”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests