Moriety
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Can you raise troops?

Thu Oct 09, 2014 12:49 am

Hi all,

I have the original ACW and was able to RAISE and CHOOSE your troops.

Since then I've brought about 6 AGEOD games, none of which, other than PON allow you to do this.

Does ACWII allow you to do this?

Spending time over a two-four year scenario that doesn't even allow the customer to build a single unit is a commercially stupid decision as your forces get ever stretched further over time and is wholly unrealistic, but then they knew that already.

It's not fun or interesting. This market is for older serious gamers, not young lads, but then AGEOD also knew that, but chose to ignore it.

Choice within a game aged 30+ is important. The more choices the better. In games involving a 2 month campaign that may take 2 real months, but not allow your customer to decide what replacement they want, nether mind IF replacements are allowed.

AGEOD shouldn't get into "challenging the customer", stick to us having a challenge, with freedom of choice within a game, within which we have free choice.
"Whether it's the best of times or the worst of times, it's the only time you've got" Art Buchwald, U.S. Journalist and humourist

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Mickey3D
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Thu Oct 09, 2014 1:49 am

CW2 has the same logic as the first AACW regarding raising and choosing troops. The difference is in the interface and the ability to choose where (i.e. in which region) your troop will be created.

Moriety
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Thu Oct 09, 2014 2:01 am

Thanks mate,

In other words they have tried to complicate an already complicated (but balanced) game even further then?

Is the game, by comparison to the original only, a hit or a miss in your opinion?

I'm reluctant to spend ever more money on any AGEOD game when AGEOD now seems to decide what you should both think and do, given their refusal to allow the player to produce their own troops in all subsequent products, whilst dumbing down the very informative combat screen in ACW, now reduced to a green/red image combat screen that tells you nothing as to whether you have a balanced force, unlike ACW, where the combat screen clearly showed how balanced they were within the generic closing in onto the enemy and onto the final assault phase. (If anyone has the original ACW it clearly shows how to adjust your forces within the display if you understand the info AGEOD gives on this already limited battle display).
"Whether it's the best of times or the worst of times, it's the only time you've got" Art Buchwald, U.S. Journalist and humourist

grimjaw
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Thu Oct 09, 2014 2:26 am

I can't speak for the design decisions, but I'm also not sure just where you're upset. You don't like that there aren't more choices, yet the game is getting too complicated.

There are parts that I wish were still like AACW (the battle reports), and parts that I much prefer in CW2 (the map). Overall, I think it's a better game. I'm also allowed to mod it to match more closely what I want, and I have access to developers on here, who listen to feedback and respond.

Moriety
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Thu Oct 09, 2014 2:53 am

Hi mate,

I was just asking about reports for this version!
My comment on choices offered by AGEOD are firmly directed towards all design decisions made between the two versions of ACW, wherin they seemed to have dumbed down the products and forced the player to do exactly what should have happened instead of giving the player a SitRep and then allowing you to change history. I tried hard to do the opposite of what the scenario designers forced me to do.
The Russian revolution game allowed more freedom than all games since ACW combined, but is the only AGEOD game since ACW I'd recommend.
I know exactly what type of troops I need to replace and don't need a troop replacement programme for my existing troops only, as they diminish. AGEOD forgot about new troops in new Regiments and the very simple fact that new regiments are formed, The UK had 100,000 odd in the BEF after France fell, by the end of the war 4 million within the Commonwealth helped to restore the honour of France.

It's this "no new forces" within AGEOD games since ACW that is really annoying me.
"Whether it's the best of times or the worst of times, it's the only time you've got" Art Buchwald, U.S. Journalist and humourist

grimjaw
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Thu Oct 09, 2014 3:26 am

I ask your pardon, but I'm still not clear on what you mean.

If you mean the automated replacements for losses of troops, that's an option and it has a default, but it's customizable to allow you to get all the troops you want or none or whatever in-between.

Some facets of the game have the option to be made simpler. The troop replacements are one; naval blockade/shipping handling is another.

As far as what should have/did happen versus what is possible with the resources and the engine limits, I don't think they made a bad design decision in modeling what the two sides were trying to achieve. The South wanted secession and recognition, among other things (the expansion of slavery into new territory is obviously not dealt with). The North want to end the rebellion and restore the Union. It is entirely possible to edit the scenarios, change the conditions of victory and have Lee versus Grant with equal forces duking it out on the Minnesota prairie. You can mod the stats of the armies and/or either leader.

There is a discussion on the forum about adding more descriptive battle reports and at least a couple of players are working on it. You can read about their progress.

I've only played the AGEOD games based on the American Civil War, so I can't speak to the other things you mentioned.

Merlin
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Thu Oct 09, 2014 4:11 am

I think he's asking if CW2 allows you to build units of your choice.

I suppose a picture would help:
Image

Moriety
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Thu Oct 09, 2014 4:25 am

Hi Grim.

Put simply I just want to know if I can raise Regiments, Cannon, Warships etc that I decide I need, or if I have the bizarre "replacement" system AGEOD has adopted in many games, even as the units get destroyed they are earmarked to replace.

I want a fluid war where new regiments are raised, and I decide what the Army needs, if this version only replaces existing Regimental platoons etc like most AGEOD games since ACW, then I've no interest.
"Whether it's the best of times or the worst of times, it's the only time you've got" Art Buchwald, U.S. Journalist and humourist

Moriety
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Thu Oct 09, 2014 4:29 am

Thank you Merlin.

I can be rest assured that I'll buy this game unlike the £120 I wasted on almost every single game AGEOD has produced since the original ACW that made them, (and then promptly forgot): about WHY it was so successful...... (instead of JUST automatic replacements you could actually decide the the shape and composition of your Army when raising units)

In ACW I used to go for a long game- playing as the Union, quickly destroy the Grey main armies within 20-30 turns, then have fun building the armies I wanted, allow the Confeds two years to rebuild, and recover, build a few Forts and then finally destroy them on the long campaign, but hey, it's just my style of play and I loved building the Corps, based upon the info the limited but useful combat screens gave me each time.

I saw a screen for this version that shows the start won't be so favourable to the Blues as AGEOD allowed in the original, and a-historical as the Union got their backside kicked.

Delighted I can once again be the boss of a game for once that AGEOD has made.

AGEOD: Plus de dictateurs!
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loki100
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Thu Oct 09, 2014 8:09 am

Moriety wrote:T....

, given their refusal to allow the player to produce their own troops in all subsequent products,


I'm sorry but I really can't even work out what you mean by this.

I'll admit I don't own Espana, or the original ACW (& don't like NCP), but every AGE game I own allows for troop raising and creation of your own replacement pool etc. They also have, as you'd expect in games that are strongly grounded in history, lots of scripted units.

You'll also find the division building routine in RuS is even more complex (I think) than in ACW2
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Mickey3D
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Thu Oct 09, 2014 10:24 am

Moriety wrote:I want a fluid war where new regiments are raised, and I decide what the Army needs

You can do it the same way you did it in ACW : you are not able to pick regiments one by one but you can choose among preexisting "template" of units (e.g. 2 infantry + 1 cav virginian brigade or 3 infantry + 1 cav + 1 light art Tennessee brigade, 1 Illinois militia, ..., see Merlin's screenshot). This is 100% what was available in ACW (except for the interface). It has even been improved as now you can choose where the unit will be created (in ACW it was a random location)

if this version only replaces existing Regimental platoons etc like most AGEOD games since ACW, then I've no interest.

I only own a few AGEOD games, but may be you are confusing raising troops with the replacement pool (filling the rank of units having suffered losses) ? Replacement pool is more or less working the same as in ACW (with a different interface).

Moriety
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Tue Oct 21, 2014 4:15 am

Thank you Mickey.

Finally I have the answer I wanted.
So freedom of choice remains an option then.
I can actually decide what what I wish to do within an AGEOD game since the original ACW??? Fantastic!........................................... Shame about all the others inbetween then.
"Whether it's the best of times or the worst of times, it's the only time you've got" Art Buchwald, U.S. Journalist and humourist

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James D Burns
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Tue Oct 21, 2014 5:13 am

80% or more of the AGEOD games allow you to build anything you want. My guess is "all the others inbetween then" as you stated are just a couple of games you own. If you actually owned all the other titles in between you'd realize your statement doesn't hold water.

Jim

Moriety
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Tue Oct 21, 2014 5:42 am

Pardon James?

99% of the games since have removed the freedom of building your own units as you well know.
The developers, both of them, will remember me asking for a better policing method in ACW on province control. (it effects supply and made the army of militia needed, as the Blues, very silly)
I dislike spammers.
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ohms_law
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Tue Oct 21, 2014 7:42 am

I don't understand what the heck the complaining is about, here.
:wacko:

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loki100
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Tue Oct 21, 2014 7:51 am

Moriety wrote:Pardon James?

99% of the games since have removed the freedom of building your own units as you well know.
.


no they haven't ... . NCP allows you to build battlalions and make divisions. RoP allows you to build mostly battalions and combine these into brigades. RUS has a division building system more complex than ACW2 has. AJE. WiA and PON use the simpler system of building the complete unit (up to corps size in PoN). For PoN this is to simplify the game a little, for the other two it reflects the wider problems of command either in the era or in the under-developed terrain of N America (of the time).

Of course in all the games, you can build what you want - subject to realistic force pool constraints

So that, by my count is 3/6 since ACW2 have a divisional building system akin to that in ACW. Now last time I did any maths, 3/6 was greater than 99%?
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