Seeing the Elephants, am I missing something?

[Chicharito19]

Just purchased Civil War 2 and Bloody Roads South. I've also updated it to 1.04 RC6. I've never played these types of games before and am a relative newbie to wargaming in general. I've played all the tutorials and watched Charles Cummings excellent tutorials as well.

I've decided to start with a small scenario "Seeing the Elephants". But I don't get it. It seems all I've got to do is rush my Union divisions down to Richmond and overpower any resistance along the way. ...which I've done. I've got the AI on Lieutenant at this time. But I expected more.

Am I doing something wrong? Thanx for any advice.

[Jim-NC]

Welcome to the forum Chicharito19.

The smaller scenarios aren't always balanced, and some are un-winnable (see Sibley's campaign for example). They help teach you some of the game concepts and basics.

[Chicharito19]

Oh well, that is what I'd feared. I was hoping smaller scenarios would also be somewhat satisfying, not only to learn the game mechanics, but also to play them out.

Thanx for your reply. Would you say the same thing about Gettysburg as well?

[Durk]

Anytime you play versus AI rather than a live opponent, you will have something of an edge. But the campaign games are much more challenging against AI.
The scenarios are fun with two players, but against AI you can find a certain win play. That said, Gettysburg will be more of a challenge.

[Chicharito19]

Thanks. I barely understand the game yet. I am not sure when I'd try multi play. Although, with my schedule PBEM sounds fun.

[Durk]

PBEM is fun. This game is worth an investment of time on your part. It takes time to learn, but it is so excellent.

[Mickey3D]

PBEM is fun. This game is worth an investment of time on your part. It takes time to learn, but it is so excellent.

+1

Welcome on the forum Chicharito19, don't mind to ask question on the points you don't understand.

[ArmChairGeneral]

Scenarios to play as a beginner:

I strongly recommend the West Theater Scenario as either side if you are looking for something easier to get into than the Grand Campaigns to learn the mechanics of the game. It starts out far enough into the war that all the cool stuff (divisions, corps, quality leaders, MTSG etc.) is available right away. Once you form up your corps the way you want them you don't have that many stacks to manage, and since they are all concentrated in a small geographic area, play is quick and focused, unlike in the Grand Campaigns. You wade right in to huge Corps-vs-Corps battles in the first several turns, and it is winnable as either side. (Best non-Grand Campaign scenario overall, IMO.) The things you learn in this scenario teach you how to operate the forces East of the Mississippi in the Grand Campaigns.

As Jim-NC mentioned, the Far West scenario is virtually unwinnable (by the criteria the game engine uses to determine minor-victory) for the CSA, but is loads of fun and will definitely teach you (the hard way) about supply, movement, attrition, cohesion, terrain and weather. It is also short, so you can play through as both sides relatively quickly. If you capture Albuquerque and Santa Fe as the CSA (which is do-able) consider it a win no matter what the computer says. This scenario will teach you how to operate the forces West of the Mississippi during your Grand Campaigns.

Neither is a "tutorial" scenario, all the learning is Montessori method, but since the games are short and focused you can learn the "how" of play much more quickly than in an equivalent amount of time put into the Grand Campaigns (in my opinion, of course). Play those two scenarios as each side and you should develop a firm grasp of the mechanics and be able to hit the ground running in the GCs.

Good luck, nice to have you aboard!

[Chicharito19]

"Montessori method"

Ah yes. Been to a couple of Montessori schools...good stuff. However, we're home-schoolers. I love the independence we have with the education of our kids. But that is off-topic.

Thanx for all your help gents. I think I'll take the smaller West and Far West campaigns and have at it. Thus far I do like the game. So I'm hoping to learn more and become really entrenched.

[Chicharito19]

Can anyone give me a few tips on setting up the corps at the beginning of the West Scenario? I see 4 armies including Grant's Army of Tennessee which only has divisions, as does the Mississippi Command.

I've read the how on setting up corps and divisions, but I'm not sure I understand the best way to do it for maximum efficiency such as in this smallish scenario. Thanx for your help.

[Durk]

To me, there are two guiding principles, make sure your corps are as evenly balances in strength as you can, this includes the army as if it were a corps. With so many army options, try to make the 'main' army your spearhead.
Divisions should be even in number of included units. There is a balance of forces, so include cavalry and artillery in each division.

A nice thing about this game start is you are looking at the historical deployment, so if you want to play with historical deployment, you can.

[vaalen]

"Montessori method"

Ah yes. Been to a couple of Montessori schools...good stuff. However, we're home-schoolers. I love the independence we have with the education of our kids. But that is off-topic.

Thanx for all your help gents. I think I'll take the smaller West and Far West campaigns and have at it. Thus far I do like the game. So I'm hoping to learn more and become really entrenched.

This answer is also off topic, but we home schooled as well. One of the best decisions we ever made. Hope you enjoy the game, and it is only one of many fine games you can still get from Ageod.

[ArmChairGeneral]

Can anyone give me a few tips on setting up the corps at the beginning of the West Scenario? I see 4 armies including Grant's Army of Tennessee which only has divisions, as does the Mississippi Command.

I've read the how on setting up corps and divisions, but I'm not sure I understand the best way to do it for maximum efficiency such as in this smallish scenario. Thanx for your help.

Take a look at the stats of your Army commanders. I haven't looked at this scenario from the Union side in quite a while, but I am guessing that Grant is your best leader, so it makes sense to give him the main force, attaching your best two stars (Sherman, I think, is hanging around in this scenario) to his Army in Corps formations. You will probably make two or three maxed-out corps to work with Grant's Army stack. Keep the Corps and Army stacks within one region of each other so they can MTSG with each other, and use this as the main fighting force to pursue your primary goal. You can organize your next best Army with a corps or two and use it to go after a secondary target. For example, Grant's Army and his subordinate Corps could drive for Memphis while Buell (or whoever is next best) takes a smaller but still sizable Army and possibly an attendant Corps to capture Nashville. Having Army stacks fighting near each other is a waste as they cannot MTSG to each other, and corps attached to one will not MTSG to support corps attached to the other. Army commanders pass stat bonuses on to their corps commanders, so it makes sense to have the bulk of your troops in or attached to the best Army commander (in your case, Grant).

Create Corps to go with the Army commanders you are going to use, and fill the Corps and Armies with divisions. These stacks can typically hold between three and five divisions. Usually you will want to max out a corps before starting a new one, although sometimes more-but-smaller Corps can be effective. Place at least one supply wagon for every two divisions in each of these stacks. These stacks are also where you will place the special units like balloons or field hospitals. (Army HQ units do not have to be in an Army stack, they provide their benefits to any stack they are in, despite the name, and get used in Corps stacks just as often as in Army stacks.) Though the initial configuration of divisions, Corps and Armies is historical, you can almost always do better by reorganizing things.

The division is (for the most part) the smallest unit of organization that you will want in the West scenario. Combine all the loose brigades into divisions of some kind, and consider splitting up and reorganizing the divisions that already exist at game start. This involves considerable shuffling of leaders and stacks on the first couple of turns, but once everything is formed into relatively equal divisions, organization becomes much simpler since you have fewer units to keep track of. A "typical" division has 10-12 infantry elements, 2-4 cavalry and 3-5 artillery. Exact division makeup is a topic of some controversy, but this "standard" configuration holds up pretty well for most purposes. Don't sweat it too much if you don't hit the exact configuration with every division, building divisions is kind of a puzzle because of the different brigades you put them together out of. It is common to form a special division or two of mainly cavalry under the command of one of your cavalry specialists. This division typically stays in one of the corps or army stacks to provide lots of pursuit damage when the enemy retreats, or if it is all cavalry and horse artillery, it can break off from the Corps/Army and act as a division-sized scout.

When you are putting together your initial divisions, be sure to keep an eye on the elite brigades and sharpshooters. These units pass their combat bonuses to the rest of the division, but multiples of them do not stack their bonuses, so only one of each is useful per division. Elite brigades have a yellow badge and sharpshooters have a red badge. A division with these elements will also display the appropriate badges to let you know it is getting the bonuses. The resulting elite divisions are your best troops, so put them in the main fighting stacks where they will benefit you the most.

As a general rule of thumb, keep the number of stacks you have in a particular combat to a minimum. Corps and army stacks are fine to keep separate from each other when in the same region, but if there is another stack that only has a division in it, put the division into one of the Corps/Army stacks instead, even if it gets hit with command penalties. Small stacks are vulnerable in combat. (It is sometimes worthwhile to keep a smaller separate stack inside a structure with the larger formation(s) outside in the region, this is an exception to the minimize stacks guideline.)

Hopefully this helps you get things started, good luck and let us know how things go!

[Chicharito19]

Thanx again gents. I read the strategy portion of the AACW Wiki last night and learned much about putting divisions and corps together with Armies. Much of it was very similar to what you wrote Armchair General. Thanx so much.

[ArmChairGeneral]

Happy to help, and nothing has changed in terms of divisions, Corps and Army organization between AACW and CW2 (except the role of the Army HQ unit) so the AACW Wiki is accurate on this topic.

[Chicharito19]

I noticed that Sherman is a 1-star general and can't lead a corps. So I'll make him second in command to McLernand. Maybe that'll help. I'm just testing stuff out.

[ArmChairGeneral]

Sorry, I forget a lot of the Union leaders stats, I usually play as the South. You want to try to promote Sherman and anyone like him, (so then they can form a corps) so put their divisions in stacks that will do a lot of fighting (especially where they win big).

[tripax]

I noticed that Sherman is a 1-star general and can't lead a corps. So I'll make him second in command to McLernand. Maybe that'll help. I'm just testing stuff out.

To clarify ArmChairGeneral, give Sherman a division - he's more likely to get a promotion that way rather than as an extra general in a stack.

[Chicharito19]

To clarify ArmChairGeneral, give Sherman a division - he's more likely to get a promotion that way rather than as an extra general in a stack.

I see. That does clarify it. He starts off as General of the 5th Division. I've done some experimenting with moving stacks and reorganization along with a couple of different attempts at playing through. I think I have some ability to work with the ground forces. But now I need to learn the rest of it as well.

Question, do I need to be concerned with all of the events out in the FAR WEST...New Mexico and all that? Right now I'm just practicing and trying to keep it manageable for a newbie like myself.

Thanx.

[Captain_Orso]

To get a leader promotable as quickly as possible he needs to do well in battle --scoring a lot of hits and if possible destroying elements in the doing--.

For Sherman to do well he will need the good leadership characteristics --defensive and offensive values and advantageous abilities-- of a corps commander.

Since there are no good army leaders in the union at the time only a good corps commander with the army commander out of command range --to prevent the army commander from dragging down his corps commanders with his piss-poor leadership-- will do this for him.

The only good corps commanders you might have by the time Sherman comes in to play would be Grant, Lyon --if he were promoted-- and Kearny --if he were promoted--.

Take your pick.

[Chicharito19]

Grant is the commanding General of the Army of Tennessee. Right now I have Sherman's division under a corps headed up by Mclernand...not what I want. I'll try and be more creative.