When Does Supply Distribution Occur?

[The Red Baron]

Some of my Union CAV ended their turn in Marion, KY with a GS level of 0. I gave them orders to move out next turn with the expectation they would draw supply from the adjacent region of Mercer, KY before movement. Mercer contains the level 1 structure of Harodsburg, which had a small but sufficient level of GS (GS=8) to supply my two regiments (@ GS=8 my detachment would have two turns of supply). Terrain and weather shouldn't be a factor since the regions lie adjacent to each other; however, my detachment took off w/o resupplying, suffered terrible cohesion loss and significant hits and now seems poised to die an ignoble death in the mud of KY around Bowling Green.

I was under the impression that supply distribution occurs at the beginning of the resolution phase. Why didn't they draw supply? My previous observations seemed to confirm that units draw supply before moving.

[GraniteStater]

Level 1 & 2 towns do not request Supply. The algorithm could've kept all of the existing stock to itself, especially without a Wagon.

I take the Let's Be Paranoid approach to Supply. I don't go hardly anywhere without Wagons, or TPs. Wagons and TPs are Supply magnets. If in doubt, Wagon up, that's all I can say.

[The Red Baron]

Well...wagons are awful expensive for me at this point, even playing the Union (spent too much $$ on other s**t); can't afford to spend resources on one wagon for 2 CAV regts. Anyway, I thought the idea was to travel light when raiding and/or scouting? Although L1 and L2 towns don't request supply, it seems like a small force in an adjacent region ought to be able to draw supply from them; but, like you said, the structure may have kept its existing stock for its needs.

[GraniteStater]

I think you are not mistaken on your suppositions, but the values may have been so low as to mitigate or deny more snacks.

[Laernius]

I've always been under the impression in my games that you can only draw on supplies at the actual town and that combat units per se do not draw supply away in adjacent regions. What I've always seen them do is resupply from the local stores so that unless they are starving they should be able to meet their needs for a turn. A 2 cav stack should be able to draw enough of this supply unless the region is pillaged; then the local stores either do not exist, or cannot supply the units. Also, it was my understanding that only depots can push supplies across regions and hence that was their raison d'etre.

Regards,

Laernius

[GraniteStater]

I've always been under the impression in my games that you can only draw on supplies at the actual town and that combat units per se do not draw supply away in adjacent regions.

Unclear - e. g., my small force in Golden, CO, with no Wagon, draws from Denver - it's never in trouble.

it was my understanding that only depots can push supplies across regions and hence that was their raison d'etre.

Unclear - what are you saying? All supply sources, including the smallest towns, can produce supplies, AFAIK. If the same as AACW, size 1 or 2 towns never request Supply. Depots request Supply and can 'stockpile'. Wagons and TPs 'request' supply, they are Supply 'magnets'.

Might as well paste this again; it's s. t. I wrote for AACW and is not entirely correct in every single detail, but could be useful:

This is an effort to try to help those brand-new to CW2. This is not Gospel, but might prove useful.

************************

OLD SUPPLY ESSAY FROM AACW:

http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthrea...hlight=waiter:

*****

First, read the Supply Primer so handily stickied.

Now, in a nutshell (I know the Union; the Southern mileage may vary):

Let's take a certain unit you get in southern PA in a 61 start. At first it is locked. It stays locked for about two turns. Then it unlocks. Then you click it to move it and discover that your brand new brave boys, rarin' to go, are starving to death. In Pennsylvania. In the summer.

This is because (a) no Wagon; (b) not next to, or on, a town or city, a Depot. The system knows the unit is there; the system wants to give them supplies, ammo, and so forth, but it can't, because of (a) and (b) just mentioned.

Depots, Forts, Towns of size 3+, Wagons and Transports request Supply. Towns of less than size 3 generate small amounts of Supply, but never request it. The system is a network of pipelines: NYC, Philly, Chicago, etc., generate huge amounts that are pushed along the system of RRs and Roads and Rivers not interdicted by Bad Guys (i. e., MC of 25% or more, not subject to enemy Forts blocking riverine traffic, etc.). The Supply goes to them who ask for it - them's that asks, git.

So you need to be adjacent to, or on, a source of supply, or something that requests supply. If that something is not a fixed Fort, Depot, or 3+ Town/City, it had better be a Wagon or a Transport, cuz otherwise, the waiter ain't takin' your order.

Also, it is important to keep RRs and Rivers up to 100%, Full Capacity, cuz Supply is pushed in three phases and only goes the last mile (like your cable connection at home) if the third and final phase is up to snuff. You can get by with Average, but some guys might not get that extra helping of beans at dinner, cuz the third phase never got to them that turn.

I finally drew the conclusion that if I want to go Reb hunting, I had better darn well make sure I took a Wagon with me. Fire up a 62 start as the USA and check out Burnside, sunning himself on the shore in SC. Go thru two Turns, maybe three. Then check out Burnside - he is about to go poof!, because you didn't build a Depot - Beaufort, SC, is not a 3+ Town, there is no Fort, no Depot. You can park Transports there, that do request Supply, but they will not do the trick, they're too small a capacity, it doesn't work, I know, believe me, I know. The solution to the 'overseas' Burnside problem is to build a Depot there with a Transport unit(s). Then everyone's much happier and has something to eat and something to shoot, cuz the system says, "Hey! I gotta keep that Depot in Supply!" The Shipping Box plays an essential role in this case, BTW.

It's a rough sketch and I'm sure Gray and others could iron out some details, but that's I how I think of it - seems to work.

Goin' huntin'? Take a Wagon. Goin' down Ole Man River to squash Vicksburg? Take Wagons and Transports. Goin' over the seas to land in Mobile and surprise Johnny Reb big time? Wagons and Transports.

Pushin' towards the interior from Nashville? Seize every town and Depot you see, secure your RRs, assert MC and keep the lines open, cuz you gotta keep your Wagons stocked.

Hope that helps. Have a good war and have a good breakfast.

[Laernius]

Jesus Christ, GS, you must be some kind of special because it's obvious from my phrasing that I mean to say that the only thing which can be counted to always move supplies to refill sources over land are depots. Weather and terrain always affect movement and this can be clearly seen if you've ever played CSA and tried to get pretty boy Floyd to move in on Morgantown from the April start. Perhaps I should have clarified the overland part. I also know that by having unspent river points and ocean transports in the shipping box that supplies can be pushed around the waterways, but that only helps with marine adjacent units and not all of them if your squatting beside a landlocked river. Your small force is just that - small; which is what I mean by the part where the local region actually produces supply that can then be used by yours or the enemy's units.

[GraniteStater]

I rarely use 'obvious' - what is to one, may not be to another.

Your prose is not obvious to me. I think I know what you're saying - I think you might be taking exception to something I said; it is murky, however. Punctuation and shorter declarative sentences can help. I must confess, however, if I want exercises in deciphering meaning, there's always Faulkner (whom I adore) or Joyce.

[The Red Baron]

The theory, then, appears to be that a stack can garner supply from L1 or L2 towns/cities only when in the same region. L1/L2 towns cannot supply adjacent regions, but L3+ towns/cities can supply stacks in adjacent regions. I'll have to test this theory in future turns.

[GraniteStater]

Here are pertinent selections from the manual. These are from my text copy and are unedited.

Town: A town is a small city (Level 1 to 3). It is too small to
be able to forward Supply during the Supply Distribution phase
unless a Depot has been built in the town.


Depot: It can be built at a cost of two Supply Wagons or by two
transports ships if a harbor or anchorage is in the region. They can
also be destroyed. Depots are able to stockpile and pass on Supply
during the Supply Distribution phase. A good network of Depots is
critical to move Supply from your rear areas to the front. presence
of a depot inside a city is indicated by tents and cannon balls.


Important Note: This is not only true for the Union, which produces massive
amounts of Supplies far from the front, but also for the Confederates to a lesser
extent. Evaluate the potential bottlenecks in your Supply network by checking
which rear-area cities stockpile too much Supply that should be available at the
front line (the Supply Filter will help you with that). Create a ‘grid’ of Depots to
alleviate the problem, and watch out for towns (Level 1 to 3 cities) which can’t
push Supplies forward unless they contain a Depot.

Pre-War Fort: These brick structures were built before war
broke out and are rather obsolete....They interfere with enemy
movement and also provide some Supply.

Ports: ports provide Supply unless blockaded.

supply sources

The basic amounts generated are as follows:

Structure General Supply/Level Ammunition/Level
City 6 0
Depot 4 1
Harbor 3 1
Fort or Stockade 2 0
Indian village 1 0

supply dIsTrIbuTIon & depoTs

each structure and Unit in the game will “pull” a certain amount of Supply each
turn. This occurs during the Hosting phase. Supply sources will strive to distribute
their Supply surplus to nearby structures and Units that need it. This will trigger a
chain reaction, with Supply being forwarded from one structure to another until it
reaches the farthest Units/structures. This process is automated and conducted in
three consecutive “push” steps taking many parameters into account.
The amount of Supply that can transit through a structure is roughly proportional
to its production Capacity (see above) and the distance covered by your abstracted
Supply columns during each step can range from one to five regions depending on:

•
Terrain
•
Weather
•
enemy presence
•
Rail Transport
•
River Transport
•
Sea Transport
you can directly check on the map how much General Supply/Ammunition is
stockpiled and where by using the Supply Filter (see chapter).

Note: Isolated Units – such as Units under siege – will begin to suffer from
starvation when their General Supply reserves are depleted.

Note: Controlling rivers and (to a lesser extent) railroads are strategically
important, as they allow you to transport great quantities of Supply and men
compared to overland Supply paths using roads.

Depots are very useful in optimizing your Supply lines. you can build them in critical
locations such as Supply bottlenecks or remote areas lacking other structures.
These will then act as transit points in order to bridge gaps in your Supply lines,
extend the reach of your Supply network and increase Supply throughput. A Depot
will attract and then push forward more Supplies than Level 1-14 cities. When the
Supply Filter is active, your Depots will pulsate on the map to help you see their
locations.

**********

I believe you may deduce the following point: Small Towns don't do very much. They can't push Supply, nor accumulate it to any marked degree.

Also, Towns (apparently including Size 3 places in CW2) are often 'connected' by a Road only - so that's strike two.

If you are the Union, Wagon up, pal, you're gonna need 'em - Big Time. Spend the resources, cheapskates, AFAIK, there's no bonuses or VPs for Money in the Bank.

The CSA can work on interior lines and needs to build some Depots as situations may require, but its needs for extending Supply are not as pronounced as the Union's unless the CSA gets Real Ambitious.

Forget small Towns without Depots - they are highly unreliable.

Which is kinda what I was saying above.