How I (and You) Play the Game

[loki100]

Let me try to push things back to the philosophical discussion...

I have a slight question about frontage. What governs if units successfully move from a reserve position to a front line position in a battle where there are more units than max frontage? I'm assuming that it isn't automatic for back line units to move to the front line, and that if the front line shatters you run the risk of everyone routing correct? (Heck that is why people don't sticking everyone in structures in the presence of the enemy.)

I ask because I want to know the in-game feasibility of attacking larger forces. I know the manual talks about the ability of a small force to hold off a big one in restricted terrain on defense, but is the same true on offense? Imagine you are Lee in Fredricksburg outnumbered two to one with Jackson and Longstreet, is allowing the Union to cross the river into the woods on the left and then assaulting them (with a force as large as the max frontage) a good idea or suicide?

In other AGE games, what you sometimes get is endless battles. I've seen this in both PoN and RoP for slightly different reasons. Early game PoN has quite restrictive frontage rules, few provinces and, in Europe, quite big armies. So in hilly or mtn terrain you get long battles as both sides essentially commit different formations each turn. In RoP, the issue is a bit closer to ACW2, but there its often cohesion that collapses in a long battle in poor terrain (makes sense as it was an era of very linear tactics), so both sides again rotate till both are near 0 organisation, then just sit there trading pointless blows.

To answer your first question, its not automatic, I think that leader initiative plays a role, so there is a risk of a tired formation not being relieved and routing. You'll see this sometimes with a multistack battle where one has taken most losses - its either due to stack selection (most often) or the front line collapsing before reserves can move up. I think one of Narwhal's excellent 'how things work' guides covers this, ok for AJE but the basics apply in all the other AGE games.

(In the same spirit, do "fixing attacks" work, say (O)/(G), in preventing corps from MSOG? i want to know if it is possible to isolate and maul individual corps on a mutually supporting line)

Yes, quite a standard tactic in RUS and RoP, but ... you need to be careful about timing - hitting the reserves in day 1 with a weak force won't stop a MSOG on day 14. The most effective use of this trick is to bleed away organisation of the 'reserve' stack. You need to do this quite a lot in RUS as some scenarios see near WW1 trench lines and you then need to ensure your desired target is isolated.

[GraniteStater]

I will try to answer...remember, I try things and I see what happens. In AACW, it took me at least a dozen starts to figure out how not to let my troops who unlock north of HF starve to death in Pennsylvania in the summer. The benefit from 'winging it', is that when something does work, I don't forget it.

*****

I have a slight question about frontage. What governs if units successfully move from a reserve position to a front line position in a battle where there are more units than max frontage? I'm assuming that it isn't automatic for back line units to move to the front line, and that if the front line shatters you run the risk of everyone routing correct? (Heck that is why people don't sticking everyone in structures in the presence of the enemy.)

I think it is automatic, but if I'm right, I wouldn't assume it auto-moves 'to the front' if a rout has started. Really don't know, I am certainly not the best guy for this. The General of the Comfy Chair is emerging as a Number Cruncher, maybe he can help here. *thinks about frontage and orders a martini*

I ask because I want to know the in-game feasibility of attacking larger forces. I know the manual talks about the ability of a small force to hold off a big one in restricted terrain on defense, but is the same true on offense? Imagine you are Lee in Fredricksburg outnumbered two to one with Jackson and Longstreet, is allowing the Union to cross the river into the woods on the left and then assaulting them (with a force as large as the max frontage) a good idea or suicide?

You can try - intriguing. Never tried this, unless I have, inadvertently, which most probably would have been under No Other Option circumstances. Remember, Athena has no ego, the player shouldn't either. Go ahead, let us know - you can always reload the Turn if it's a really good game you don't want to alter too much. Again, I just Try Stuff & Learn (I hope).

Depending how frontage works, it seems like there is a possibility to let terrain act as a force equalizer. (Of course you have all the stats and terrain bonuses going against you, so it would have to be with high quality troops and good offensive leaders). I would like to hope that if you get a stack-o-doom in restricted terrain, with 100% hostile MC on three sides and you close the back door with some cav, that a properly lead small force could bag a bigger one.

I would venture to say that you cannot 'close the back' with a weaker force against a Huge Stack.

(In the same spirit, do "fixing attacks" work, say (O)/(G), in preventing corps from MSOG? i want to know if it is possible to isolate and maul individual corps on a mutually supporting line)

AFAIK, No, but haven't really tried. MTSG occurs 'automatically' and, to at least a small degree, 'magically' - I've seen two and three MTSGs on a line in one Turn. AFAIK, a fixing attack does not hinder MTSG. Isolating supporting Corps - I really don't think so, you'd have to prevent their buddies from showing up & IIRC, I've tried Big Attacks at a spot to do this, but IIRC, the MTSG happened anyway. OTOH, MTSG is not 100% all the time - there is a probabilty associated with Posture, etc., so one can gamble, I guess.

Wow, you are a crafty one!

*****

I see someone who actually knows something (loki100) has helped. *takes notes*

[ArmChairGeneral]

What governs if units successfully move from a reserve position to a front line position in a battle where there are more units than max frontage? I'm assuming that it isn't automatic for back line units to move to the front line, and that if the front line shatters you run the risk of everyone routing correct? (Heck that is why people don't sticking everyone in structures in the presence of the enemy.

Elements are randomly chosen to fill frontage each combat round, but modified by whether they were engaged in the previous round (increased chance), whether they have taken hits (lower chance) and whether they have routed (even lower chance). All other things being equal, elements with more hits are more likely to engage than elements with fewer hits. So a militia element is less likely to be chosen than a line infantry element. If the frontage exceeds the available forces, all elements are chosen, even if they have few hits, have taken damage, not previously participated, or routed (there are contradictions in the sources on this however.)

This is recalculated every round and is the mechanism by which "fresh" elements are rotated in: units who were damaged or routed on previous rounds have less chance to be chosen in cases of limited frontage, but still COULD be chosen. So is not "automatic" in the sense that I think you mean.

There is less information on routing and it's effects on other elements in the unit. An element that takes a hit makes a modified check vs. cohesion, and routs if it fails. I thought I have read that presence of other routing elements in the unit is one of the modifiers, but have been unable (still looking) to find a reference to this.

The final sentence of the Combat-> Morale subsection of the AACW Wiki: "In addition, when the number of routed units becomes too large, the whole force is routed. In this case, it withdraws and suffers increased losses during pursuit." There is a similar reference, also without numbers, in the AGEWiki. This seems to mean that routing affects withdrawal chances (and the potential rout-status) of the whole force (with a murky definition of force: stack? everything in the region?) but not the individual cohesion checks of adjacent elements.

Sources: AGEWiki, Narwhal's Targetting, Melee, Fire and Frontage analyses, AACWiki

A lot of this stuff is out-of-date and some is contradictory or just plain confusing, so my interpretations may be off-base. For example it is stated in the AACWWiki that elements that rout stop participating in battle, but the explanations of how units are chosen for engagement makes it seem as if they are just less likely rather than unable to engage.

[GraniteStater]

And the air velocity of an African swallow is...?

But I am extremely glad somebody likes to do this stuff.

[khbynum]

I'll probably get banned for this but:

If you've followed this thread, you really should check out this one. You need to know who you're dealing with. With GraniteStater dominating every thread, this forum just isn't fun anymore. I'm out of here.

http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?34690-Could-the-Civil-War-have-been-avoided