Partisan raids on depots overpowered...

[ajarnlance]

Does anyone else think that partisan raids on depots are overpowered in the game?? I buy a cheap partisan unit, place him in a region next to a level 4 depot, play the raid RGD, cross my fingers and boom!! Level FOUR depot destroyed!!

Contrast this with Forrest or Stuart, two of the most lethal raiders for the south historically. First, I can only destroy level ONE depots. How can I do this?? I must first assault and take the city. Then I must hold for 5 days to destroy the small depot. Then hopefully escape intact.

Which method is easier?? Partisans obviously. Something is wrong when a single leaderless partisan unit can do much greater damage from one region away than NB Forrest, one of the most lethal raiders in the war!

Suggested solution: limit partisan raids to level ONE depots only. Even better, make partisans only effective from the same region as the depot (not one region away). That will make players combine partisan units with combat units to destroy depots. This will still provide the advantage that the depot is destroyed instantly because of the partisan special ability (without having to wait 5 days).

[Ace]

+1

Especially on the point why can't lvl 4 be razed by regular special order. Depot at Atlanta is an example how it was done.

[ajarnlance]

+1

Especially on the point why can't lvl 4 be razed by regular special order. Depot at Atlanta is an example how it was done.

Yes, I just lost my level FOUR depot in Atlanta to a partisan. For the south that is a lot of productivity to lose for a cheap partisan raid. I think the larger depots should be immune from destruction... or maybe they could be reduced by a raid, say from level four to a level three. Catching partisans is like trying to get a hold of a greased pig! I think the emphasis should be placed back on the skillful cavalry raiders on both sides of the war. I love Sherman's angry comment on Forrest that he must be stopped "even if it costs 10,000 men and bankrupts the federal treasury!"

[grimjaw]

Maybe for higher level depots it can destroy the supplies rather than the depot?

[tripax]

I don't use that card, does it work when a depot is garrisoned? I think a powerful card isn't bad if it forces the Union to more heavily garrison its depots - it might even be more historical if so.

[ajarnlance]

I don't use that card, does it work when a depot is garrisoned? I think a powerful card isn't bad if it forces the Union to more heavily garrison its depots - it might even be more historical if so.

Yes, it can still work if the depot is garrisoned, although I think that the size of the opposing force reduces the chances of the raid being successful... My main point is that a single cheap to build partisan should not out perform the best raider units lead by the best raider leaders in the war. Currently ONE partisan can take out a level FOUR depot while the best that Nathan Bedford Forrest can do is take out a level ONE. My solution is to limit partisans to destroying level one depots only. Another suggestion I have is to have the raid only reduce the level of a depot by one each time it is successful... so when my level FOUR depot in Atlanta is raided it is reduced from level 4 to 3. That way you would need multiple raids to totally destroy large depots. Presently it is way too easy for a very cheap partisan unit to completely destroy a very valuable high level depot in one turn.

The other advantage of partisans is that they can do this from an adjacent region, while raiders have to first assault the city, hold it, and then finally take out the depot... at much higher risk.

[Captain_Orso]

This doesn't sound right. From my understanding, if a depot is larger than level 1 it should only be reduced by 1 level. Only when it's at level 1 should it be removed.

BTW you can use the Raid RGD with Forrest & Co.

---

This is another something I wanted to do completely differently [,but it would have been a lot of programming].

Raiding Attack
Only for Raiders/Leaders wither Adept Raider, etc.:
Raiding attacker attacks a location, maybe per RGD, otherwise attack is normal as per standard rules.
Pre Battle: Defending units take a morale check (low discipline units may retreat instead of defending).
Pre Battle: Remaining defending units check if they are unaware/confused (Attacker's stealth vs defender's detection) and don't fight in the first round of battle.
Round 1: Fighting starts at range 1 (night-/sneak-attack) [if the attackers are not successful, attack is broken off].
*Round 2: Remaining defending units which are still unaware/confused check if they recover/become aware and joint Round 2 of the battle.
*Round 2: Fight at range 0 [If attackers are still good-order, they attack depot/installations and destroy/reduce them according to their strength].
*[Battle Plan]Attack may decide to continue attacking (depot/installation may be further reduced) or retire.].
[*]Repeat these until attack is driven off or retires

[ajarnlance]

This doesn't sound right. From my understanding, if a depot is larger than level 1 it should only be reduced by 1 level. Only when it's at level 1 should it be removed.

BTW you can use the Raid RGD with Forrest & Co.

---

This is another something I wanted to do completely differently [,but it would have been a lot of programming].

Raiding Attack
Only for Raiders/Leaders wither Adept Raider, etc.:
Raiding attacker attacks a location, maybe per RGD, otherwise attack is normal as per standard rules.
Pre Battle: Defending units take a morale check (low discipline units may retreat instead of defending).
Pre Battle: Remaining defending units check if they are unaware/confused (Attacker's stealth vs defender's detection) and don't fight in the first round of battle.
Round 1: Fighting starts at range 1 (night-/sneak-attack) [if the attackers are not successful, attack is broken off].
*Round 2: Remaining defending units which are still unaware/confused check if they recover/become aware and joint Round 2 of the battle.
*Round 2: Fight at range 0 [If attackers are still good-order, they attack depot/installations and destroy/reduce them according to their strength].
*[Battle Plan]Attack may decide to continue attacking (depot/installation may be further reduced) or retire.].
[*]Repeat these until attack is driven off or retires

I like your idea for a raiding attack. Would this also work with the battle planner?
As for the depot raid it removes the entire depot in one turn. I just lost my level FOUR depot in Atlanta to a partisan RGD raid in just ONE turn!! Seems ridiculously overpowered to me. One leaderless band of partisans can accomplish as much as the famous raiders like Forrest, Morgan etc... this needs fixing. Personally I'm not very keen on the RGDs. I think they are a bit 'gamey'. They almost seem like quick fixes to problems better addressed through developing the actual base game.

[Captain_Orso]

I like your idea for a raiding attack. Would this also work with the battle planner?

This is just a pipe-dream that I suggested in brain-storming. It could maybe use the battle-planner masks to ask the attacker for his attack/retire decision, but that too is just something rattling around in the caverns of my head.

As for the depot raid it removes the entire depot in one turn. I just lost my level FOUR depot in Atlanta to a partisan RGD raid in just ONE turn!! Seems ridiculously overpowered to me. One leaderless band of partisans can accomplish as much as the famous raiders like Forrest, Morgan etc... this needs fixing. Personally I'm not very keen on the RGDs. I think they are a bit 'gamey'. They almost seem like quick fixes to problems better addressed through developing the actual base game.

Looking at the RemoveStructure entry in the AgeWiki, it looks like you must be right. That sucks and is not what I had read elsewhere .

[ajarnlance]

This is just a pipe-dream that I suggested in brain-storming. It could maybe use the battle-planner masks to ask the attacker for his attack/retire decision, but that too is just something rattling around in the caverns of my head.



Looking at the RemoveStructure entry in the AgeWiki, it looks like you must be right. That sucks and is not what I had read elsewhere .

Yes, I was rather unpleasantly surprised too when my level 4 depot evaporated! I think the larger depots should be reduced by one level for each attack. Wouldn't that be more reasonable?

[Mickey3D]

Does anyone else think that partisan raids on depots are overpowered in the game?? I buy a cheap partisan unit, place him in a region next to a level 4 depot, play the raid RGD, cross my fingers and boom!! Level FOUR depot destroyed!!

This is strange, I was sure only level 1 depot could be destroyed ?!?

[minipol]

I thought so too. Destroying a level 4 is very powerful.

[ajarnlance]

This is my first PBEM and since Athena doesn't use partisans very well I have had a rude awakening as my opponent has partisans running around everywhere destroying depots. My problem is with the ability to destroy depots from an adjacent region with the raid card. Since most regions are surrounded by 6 to 8 other regions that means placing 6 to 8 militia units around all of my depot cities ... even then there is no guarantee they will stop or destroy the slippery partisan unit. I am getting fatigued spending half my turn time chasing down these partisans. Yes, I know that that they tied up military units in the war and were a pain BUT can't this affect be abstracted?? e.g. I spend so much money on partisan suppression, my opponent spends on partisan activity... the result is a net deduction from my GS. Honestly, I want to focus on the war game not play "catch the partisan" ... watch him escape again...

[Gray Fox]

Militia have a poor chance of contacting partisans. Use a group of several cavalry elements led by a commander with a decent strategic stat. so he stays activated and can hunt down the partisans. You want a unit that can find them and then hold onto them. IIRC, you can also use the recon card to reduce the hide value of those units so that the cavalry can go to work. Good luck!

[ajarnlance]

Militia have a poor chance of contacting partisans. Use a group of several cavalry elements led by a commander with a decent strategic stat. so he stays activated and can hunt down the partisans. You want a unit that can find them and then hold onto them. IIRC, you can also use the recon card to reduce the hide value of those units so that the cavalry can go to work. Good luck!

Thanks for the tip... I never thought of using the recon card that way!