Forces with different postures

[Erik Springelkamp]

I ask this question here, because this is the most active forum, and the question is pretty generic for AGEOD games. Although my problems around this question happened recently in Rise of Prussia.

I don't quite understand what happens when you have several stacks in a region together with an enemy force when your own stacks have different postures, some offensive, others defensive.

I understand the offensive stack starts the battle, but will the defensive stacks join battle, and if so, do they suffer severe penalties?

In Rise of Prussia I was several times in this situation with my Russian army, where most of the time some of the corps are not active, but I wanted to attack nevertheless. The outcome was mostly unfavourable, and I wondered whether that was because of my stances. On the other hand, if you have to wait till all your corpses are active, you will never be able to attack. Or maybe this is the historical situation in the Baltic there?

[Ol' Choctaw]

I think it is mostly a matter of frontage. I would imagine that those with the most aggressive posture would attack, though the total troop strength is represented. Even in the same stack I find one division taking losses while the rest just kind of sit and watch.

Pocus would be the one to answer this definitively.

[Pocus]

doing that right now

Offensive stacks will at first only target enemy offensive stacks. If they 'overwhelm' them though, i.e if there is more than 50% more line elements in the offensive stacks of the aggressor, then all defending stacks of the defender are free to fight. In cascade, if these new fighters (of the defending faction) overwhelm now the aggressors, then all the defending stacks of the initial aggressors triggers. Same go for passive, which is 'line 3' here.

There is no penalty associated with having to fight whereas initially you did not commit because you were in defense. There is a flat 35% penalty if you fight and are not activated or in passive, which can lead to sound defeats.

And yes, you can end up with some forces not fighting at all, because of this 'mini game'. Plus fighting is subject to a 'commit roll' each round, which can be as low as 30% sometime.

[Erik Springelkamp]

This explanation makes it much clearer.

But there remain a few questions:

- Is the 35% penalty for not-activated equally applied to the overall defender?
- Is that 35% penalty for not-activated cumulative with the penalty for entering an enemy occupied region while not-activated?

What is the best course of action when you want to attack with several corps while the army-commander is not-activated?
Lets say I have two corps and one army in one region and I want to attack an enemy force in an adjacent area:
When I make an army "co-ordinated move" with all three stacks, my army stack is not-activated, so I cannot give it an offensive posture, but I can give my two corps an offensive posture. So maybe the army stack units will be in the reserve, so their penalty is not applied in practice, while I profit from the coordinated army move.

When I order my two active corps to attack individually, they may arrive at different times, and be defeated in detail. Or should I attack with one corps and trust the second will march to the sound of the guns.
Or can I even use coordinated movement with two corps without involving the army?

Many different options in this specific situation, which is actually very common when you fight the Prussians in RoP.
Whether you are French or Austrian or Russian, generally several corps and army stacks will be not-activated.
I don't know what tactics to use in this situation.

[Pocus]

the 35% penalty is only applied to a stack fighting while non-activated. My mistake though, the penalty is the same as the fighting/entering enemy occupied region, i.e you get -x% where x is the enemy military control, up to 35%

Corps can move in synch even without the army moving, no problem. Best course is to have all activated stacks on offensive, so that they attack as soon as possible. You can keep some in defensive, but you'll never know if they will join the fight. For non activated groups, sending them in defensive can only be a stop-gap measure, as they will perform poorly.

The only possibilty to have non activated stacks only join if there is big trouble is to have stacks in offensive anyway. If all your stacks are defending in defensive and some are not activated, then non activated stacks will fight at the same time. Now, if you put some of your stacks in offensive as the defender of a region, you'll not get the terrain though, so hard choice there. A third possibility is to have activated stacks in defensive and non activated stacks in passive. This way you 'restore' a 'double layers'

[Erik Springelkamp]

It is becoming clear now.

I never realized that a defensive force also suffered from being non-activated. It is a good thing the enemy cannot see whether the defenders are activated or not, otherwise it would become an important factor in the timing of an attack.

I also realize now that when I move into an enemy occupied region with several stacks, the in-activated stacks will go into offensive stance for entering enemy control, so they will join in with the first wave, with their 35% penalty.

[Ace]

I never realized that a defensive force also suffered from being non-activated. It is a good thing the enemy cannot see whether the defenders are activated or not, otherwise it would become an important factor in the timing of an attack.

Yes and no. They do suffer if they don't have 100% MC, but usually they do. Reread this line:

i.e you get -x% where x is the enemy military control, up to 35%

[Ace]

What I would like to know in combat where several corps and overall Army commander are involved, what are the direct benefits from Army commander since he doesn't command any troops apart from reserve ones in Army stack. Are the only benefits the bonus he gives to corps commander?

[Erik Springelkamp]

Yes and no. They do suffer if they don't have 100% MC, but usually they do. Reread this line:

OK, thanks. I was a bit worried. It wasn't immediately clear to me that it also applied to defenders.

I think it is now all starting to make sense in my head.

[Erik Springelkamp]

What I would like to know in combat where several corps and overall Army commander are involved, what are the direct benefits from Army commander since he doesn't command any troops apart from reserve ones in Army stack. Are the only benefits the bonus he gives to corps commander?

Isn't the highest ranking commander in the area the battle commander, regardless of the troops in his stack?
So wouldn't that always be the army commander if he is present?

[Pocus]

Having an army in the region will boost the % of marching to sound of guns from adjacent regions or commit roll (same region, uncommitted corps). Also the CiC (most senior) commander will take precedence on some abilities. Some abilities work at the region level, i.e they affect more than their stack.

[Captain_Orso]

Also in general corp commanders will be Maj. Gen.'s and since the army commander must be a Lt. Gen. the entire battle, if the army commander is leading it, will have more advantageous frontage for that side.