Manufacturing Italy (a PoN GC)

[loki100]

Well, you insulted their espresso, what did you expect?

Informative update. I like seeing the dynamic nature of the economy (and your management of it). The strategy overview was helpful, both to know what you're thinking long-term, but also because it's more grounded in 'real life' - makes it easier to relate to without a detailed grasp of the game mechanics.

As far as you colonial adventures go, are you simply constrained in your options because you're a small power? Do you need to have Great Power status before other options open up, or is it research-based? Either way, your numbers seem to be pretty stationary currently.

Actually my coffee jokes have come back to haunt me (next post), lack of coffee is getting them to feel very grumpy

There isn't much I can do colonially till unification, as the options that really allow me to try to establish control can't be played till then. All I'm doing at the moment is a couple of trading posts and missionaries so as not to lose ground.

Nice report, well done for getting to 5 years, in most games 120 turns would have finished it many times over.

I am amazed at your objectives screen so many things to go after, Britain only seems to have one or two open targets at any one time.

It will be interesting to see what happens if/when you get to war and how much support you get from France.
Perhaps you should invade Switzerland for practice?

In the initial two years internal demand seems to grow about 10% per year, does it continue to grow that fast?

Well I'm up to 132 turns by the end of the next post. I promise never again to complain that Rise of Prussia seems a long game. The good thing is I can run this on my laptop and do some research on our other PC and just check every now and then that a turn is over, do the admin stuff and run another. Equally I can run it in the background as long as I don't have too many other files open. In combination you can get through a fair few turns without it snagging all your attention.

Its a long list but unless Turkey gets really eaten by Russia there isn't that much I can do for now. I daren't have my army in N Africa when the Unification cycle starts. I'm not using the 'extended claims' option so there is little gain to warring with the Swiss and it may cost me much needed French support.

I'll cover how internal demand shifts in the next screen. Going back to this post, ie early Jan 1850, then food demand was 16 (its now 20), common goods 12 (now 17) and luxuries 8 (now 11). So some of that could be population growth (I've only had one big loss of population to the Americas) and some is due to inventions firing (these increase the level of demand per population type). I've not really paid attention to when it shifted but its been at these numbers for a couple of years, so you could be right that it happens early. That would make sense as I've not discovered anything I didn't have in 1850 and it seems that discoveries trigger some time after you notionally have them.

Thanks for sharing your plan and general military preparedness. Very informative. It spurred me on to be less finger in the air and to come up with my own plan to curb the Austrian menace.

I to have my doubts of how much help the French AI will be. I currently have a defensive alliance with France which means I can view their forces and they have a very underwhelming army. Only 1 corps is stationed in the South with a total force power of around 500 of course I am not sure whether the event chain which potentially leads to war also causes the French army to mobilise and concentrate. If not it will be several turns before sufficient French forces are involved (assuming the AI just dosen't sit and watch)

Anyway good luck with the preperations!

I've just (next post) found the Austrian army in N Italy. It has 1100 power to my 800, so I am going to need allies, even if I really build up my artillery. Like you I'm worried at what level of use the French will be.

Great AAR. I learn many things from you.

And my questions:
1) When you show OOB you could show too how many total soldier/cavalry and guns are present. Little thing but makes smiles onf our faces
2) Siege gun have trait "lower speed", so don't you afraid that they will crap you army move?
3) You plan make "sneak attack" ,or you wait with advance unitl war is formally declared?
4) After you finish this AAR, you should make another. People (like me) can learn many things.

Well as you asked so nicely, I'll do a revised OOB in the next post

Its not just the guns, those balloons, hospitals etc all slow me down. I may detach the cavalry to try and get there first, but the Austrians will be able to move by rail. So I have a lot to think over before the war starts. I'll do the war by the book, but I may opt to defend early on (& if so I will build up the fortifications at Alessandria to disrupt any Austrian attack).

[loki100]

So the usual 6 month updates to follow. I'll keep to the format of the last one and slot in other actions (that cost substantial sums into the manufactured goods report).

Manufactured and big purchases



Non – manufactured



Note that my hard produced coal mine in Tuscany has been shut for the moment – just not worth keeping open, and my steel plant has opened.



Population happiness etc



Now one question was about population demand.



This shows the population demand. Column is by class, row is by group (food, common, luxury). To some extent you can substitute different items within these groups but can't satisfy just with one type (so if you only have cereals it won't satisfy in the food group no matter how much you sell).

Add up the rows and that tells you the demand. You can extract information on how much you supply from the 4th row of the F4 screen (& this will tell you what is grouped into which categories). Here's the consequence of the coffee shortage. Overall I could over-supply their common needs, but they want either coffee or tea (& I now have neither). So across the period, their satisfaction falls. Hopefully in the second half of the year, my new trading ships will cure this.

Now demand expands over time as inventions happen:



The text isn't clear, but this adds 10% to all those demand lines. As different countries will discover this at different speeds, I guess this has the effect of modelling the destabilising (but also motivating) effect of social change in the period. There are others that improve output or reduce inputs, so in combination you end up seeing a classic 19th century boom-bust, invention driven cycle (ie this is a very good bit of simulation).

Overall, the logic was to try and keep militancy as low as possible. Turin remains grumpy (lack of coffee and its too early for Juventus to cheat their way to victory in SerieA?)

Colonial (non) progress



Diplomacy



Army

In addition to last years buying splurge, I add some signals units (more command points – which at the moment I don't need but could come in very handy later on)



Here's the replacement cycle across the period. As before this is now a constant churn and consumes most of my replacement companies (especially when I need to buy infantry replacement chits)



This for example is the cost of a new Infantry corps



To put that in context, I add about 8 companies per turn and I think I am capped at around 50 (ie any more are lost). So there is no way, this side of unification, that I can expand my army in terms of numbers (but I can add a lot more firepower).

As requested, here's my mobile army in terms of manpower



And the first sighting of the enemy. I'm not sure if this is connected to my signals unit being deployed (improved line of sight?), or simply moving a corps to Alessandria. Anyway, there they are.

[loki100]

I wonder, and you might not have the diplomats to do so, but what if at the same time you are building relations with France, you could build relations with Prussia. Prussia on the other side of Austria would really take the pressure off if you both went to war with Austria at the same time. Prussia is a force to be reckoned with almost from the very beginning. I immediately went after the rifle upgrade that becomes available in 1853 or 1854 and that made Prussia that undisputed power in Europe for land forces. I found it almost impossible to get the most powerful force objective (90% of 10 years - something like that), though.

I'm slowly managing that. The problem at the moment is the only diplomatic action that Prussia will accept is the 'local support' one, so its slow but I've got them over 20 now. I'd love a defensive alliance with them (at least till they start to challenge France directly) as it would allow all sorts of opportunism in terms of Austria.

I'm thinking blowing up the Vesuvius takes down the force field that protects the Austrian death star, allowing Garibaldi's rebels to stage a daring attack and blow up its reactor core, while Garibaldi's estranged father throws Emperor Franz Joseph to his death.

Anyway...

You have a decent-looking army, but the fact that the Austrians have 1100+ pw in Northern Italy alone is worrisome - I expect they have far more where that came from. You have mentioned that there is an alternate chain of events to fire the Italian Unification, in case war with Austria doesn't come. Suddenly, that sounds rather appealing. I guess your worst-case scenario right now is if the French-Piemontese events fire, you and France declare war and then the French refuse to play along (and you - potentially - get steamrollered by the Austrians).

Here's hoping it doesn't come to that. Combat and war is all jolly and exciting, but the excitement wanes a bit if you're not actually winning.

Well if the tone of this AAR shifts from simple gameplay to steampunk you'll immediately know why

Yes, I am both looking forward to the war and dreading it. Unlike my stunts in RoP, if I do wreck my army, it will undermine me for a generation given the slow rate of regeneration (though it might be a bit easier with all of Italy to draw on). In a wider sense, I'm hoping the Austrians daren't weaken whatever they have in Bohemia et al.

1. If Austria will have better relation than 15 with France, or they choose no war option you are screwed Maybe you show Austria/France diplomacy?

2. And you plan to destroy all structures in Nice & Savoie before France take it?
From my knowledge of scripts this mean Nice & Savoie for exchange for Piemont, but i can be wrong.

3. AbsorbFaction = SIC;100;100;100;100;100;75;100 -> this mean 75% land forces,recruits/officers and 100% other, but also problem with different nationalities -> you need another replacement and problem with creating "one huge army" from 4 countries...

4. Also counting on Prussia is very risky, if AI control them they have events to automate create NGF, Germany and take Alsace & Lorraine from France without war, but in certain date.

But I wish you luck

I'll check France-Austria as part of the 1857 updates, but I can't imagine its that good. From my experience if you don't positively try to build relations, it tends to degrade to -1-- -5 and stick around there

There's not much in Nice/Savoy (the only thing I've built is the rails in Nice and that for selfish reasons), so they can have whatever is there to be honest.

In my game as Prussia after the united, the absorb faction wasn't all that bad. I didn't do much with them, though. I used them mostly as rear defense and garrison as my professional Prussian army battered France.

I'll see, it maybe that ITA becomes the core code for the entire unified army and if so it will be easy enough. If not, well at some stage I'll need units for secondary operations (if I tangle with the Ottomans for example).

[loki100]

Generally this was a quiet period with the usual minor twiddling of my economy (I was trying to boost the rate of gain of capital and rather botched this). The main looming concern is I seem to be able to add 2 new support units to the army each six month period (as well as investing in replacments), so I am starting to become aware that 1859 is not that far away.

Equally I've played the 1859 scenario a couple of times, mainly to work out how combat and manouver in PoN differs to the other AGEOD titles. Even though you can win easily enough (at least drive the Austrians from Venezia), the losses are horrendous (25-30,000 Italians, much the same for the French). So I need a lot of replacements to prepare and I guess I won't be doing much afterwards till I've recovered. And that assumes an offensive war, my fear is having to fight largely on the defense without sufficient French support.

Anyway, here's the usual reports.

Manufactured Goods



Non Manufactured.



Replacements etc



Population Opinion



Static Colonialism



International Opinion



Developments.

I decide to build up the corps now at Alessandria, first is to add a medical unit. This helps organisational regain and could be invaluable if I have to fight Austria on my own

Later on, I bought a new supply wagon, again for the corps at Alessandria, so that in case of need the two main formations can operate independently and give it more combat power by some more field artillery.



The evil Yankee invasion of Mexico gathers pace



I spotted this when trying to work out why my ability to buy goods from Mexico had dipped. The fleet in that region was redeployed to S Carribean so I could trade with Columbia and Venezuela instead.

Equally, as a scouting expdition, I send a small part of the fleet into the Northern Adriatic, I'd like to see what else the Austrians have around there.



Not much in truth, the army at Venezia and a single transport squadron at Fiume. So in the case of war I can raid their merchant ships in the Mediterranean and operate in the Adriatic pretty freely.

The only other industrial development is my new Luxury Goods Factory opens

[loki100]

Too often war is like a trip to the dentist - necessary, much-dreaded and yet something we are eager to have done and over with. My game style is not that of the warmaker, but Austria clearly stands between you and real power, so Austria must go down. Depending on how the game mechanics work, standing on the defensive in a powerful prepared position could be advantageous - if the AI is dumb enough to attack it. What I remember from that war is that the Austrians tried to rely on firepower and the French had gone back over to an emphasis on assault columns and the bayonet, leading to some appalling casualties. Post-War, of course, the French went back to a firepower doctrine and the Austrians took up dense assault columns a la bayonet... which lead to disaster in the Austro-Prussian War (*sigh* Perhaps tactically you should simply pick whatever the Austrians are NOT using). My personal preference has always been the style of Belisarius (and von Manstein, aong others) - a stout defense coupled with a counter-attack and a ruthless pursuit if they break. Of course, you need to work the game mechanics rather than some idealized srategy/operations plan.

Looks like you could profit from some more independent units, to raid around behind the Austrians in Venezia and Dalmatia. Probably a suicide mission, but if you deplete the main stack in Northern Italy, or get it to alter its stance so that you can wrong-foot it... and then hit it... (*visions of Austrian troops streaming in panic down the Po Valley, courtesy of the original Napoleon*). :happy:

I agree with trying to make-nice with Prussia, at least as long as that doesn't detract from your diplomacy with France. First things first, and all that. You might get lucky (too many friends are rarely enough, especially when it comes to war). And if not, well - not much lost from the attempt, yes?

I don't know how this game's peace treaty mechanics work, but I would suspect that you'll need to whip Austria hard to get their Italian provinces. I wish you the best and hope you get a decent setup, assuming war actually comes.

I must admit I'm dreading the war when it comes. I think this game forces you to a very Bismarckian attitude, its not that you care about killing off the lower orders in large numbers but you know that if too many die it will hinder your statecraft for quite a while. I'm struggling to build up a manpower reserve even in peacetime, I hate to think how hard its going to be to recover (even if I can draw on a larger population). This is exactly the dilemna that wasn't posed at the end of the Rise of Prussia game, where my army was utterly expendable as long as I secured my goals.

The marines (aka men-in-hats) are my raiding force. I think I will have total naval superiority so can pick my targets. I do have a single cavalry brigade I can detach but at the moment neither Parma nor the Papal States will give me access so its going to be a grinding campaign down the Po valley with very little finesse. But there is no doubt, if I can I want to force the Austrians to attack me, artillery in particular is better on the defense and I'm relying a lot on artillery for my killing power.

For diplomacy, its France first, second and third, but as long as they and Prussia are not in contention, I also build relations with Prussia. My guess is that Prussia has to settle the leadership of Germany with Austria first then it come to blows with France. So if there is a need for more expansion, I'm not adverse to an 1866 style blow at Austria when they are caught up in a war elsewhere.

In terms of gains, the engine uses an extreme version of Paradox's core mechanism. If it is on your objective list (ie Milan, Venice, Trieste and Split) it is relatively easy to acquire anything else is effectively impossible (I'm not sure if its just hard or actually not doable?). So a good win should net me the first two, I guess the Adriatic ports may have to wait.

The other possibilie way to deal with Austria might be to draw the main Austrian army into alessandria hoping it will take time to reduce the place while one of your stacks advances from Parma or the papel states to cut the railway at venezia and hopefully put his main force out of supply. It might give you the chance to eliminate a substantial force without devastating casualties.

I am back to dithering about building up the fortifications at Alessandria just for that purpose. Lure them in, sit back and see if I can chop their supply line is becoming a very attractive variant. Problem is, if I do get French support, a big modern fort in the middle of Italy is pretty near useless in the longer term. So its quite a decision to have to make.

On exploitation centres, they appear to replace cities as a place to gather resources, I think you are mostly better off with using harbours, much cheaper.
The investment in a center costs 92 money, 230 capital, 24 x10 for mfg = 562 (assuming money=capital). The return is 1 money per turn, so really has to earn itself back by allowing you to get resources you otherwise would not be able to get.
Unlike merchants where allowing for the possibility of failure the IRR is 81%, the average net return is 22 assuming mfg @ 10.
Good trading posts sending back valuable stuff like silk, opium, gold, gems etc. have an IRR in excess of 50%.
Most agriculture IRR is between 25% and 45%, opium and silk usually are over 60%.
For mines IRR is between 15% and 45% except for gold and gems which are through the roof. Coal is usually low.
Factories IRR is bwteen 50% and 75%.
This all assumes 100% efficiency and that you are buying at the base price for investment, return drops as the investment cost goes up.
A 20% increase in the cost of investment will drop a 45% IRR to 37%.
A 50% effeciency will drop a 45% IRR to 21%.
So the overall approach with a big economy is to invest in stuff, preferrably in more developed areas and hope this leads to good returns.
The way this works is if you are investing 500 a turn, then in a year you will have invested 12,000. A year later allowing for the long build times for factories you should be generating 12,000 x 20% = 2,400 extra capital a year, 100 a month. Because this is compound and assuming you have enough structures to invest in by year 10 you will have 2,500 capital a month.
Sorry, went on a bit.....

Thanks for that, is one reason I'm doing this AAR. Its an attempt to create a form of game-orientated manual. In this case I think it does help me in trading from Sardinia but I won't know till after the next update (as the rail only completed in late June) and that then means it is as well developed as the rest of my holdings.

[loki100]

Economically, this half year was much as usual. Open some borderline stuff when it seemed as if I could sell more (you can use the 'B' screen to check what is in demand). My other struggle was having to save up all my potential replacements to use as regular infantry (I think I've had an unlucky period with my replacements being quickly consumed).

Diplomatically though, its been pretty active with some odd revolts, a clash between Austria and Russia and the start of the Unification event chain.

Anyway, usual summary reports:

Manufactured Goods (& larger decisions)



As you can see, I built nothing in that period. In part there are no obviously profitable factories (and the price of luxury goods is dropping), so I'm content to store cash to spend on reforms and capital in case I need to institute a form of autarky in the case of war.

Non-Manufactured



My basic goal here is to stabilise things, no particular interest in building up my stockpiles, am selling as much domestically as I can, so just twiddling on the margins with sales/purchases.

Replacements



My big problem in this period was needing to put most of my conscript companies to building line infantry replacements. These are very expensive in manpower terms (which is now my main constraint). Should add, the image doesn't mean I need 41 replacement chits but that I have 41 elements that are in need of some replacements (a given chit will supply a random number of these).

Diplomacy



Few things to note there. Prussia and Parma are now on my 'mates' list, but neither will agree to anything (so its all done by the 'local support' option). The Pope won't give me military access.

I've shown France's relations with the main powers. They don't like Austria which suits me fine.

Population



I'll spare you the colonial reports, I think you can probably guess what happened.

Anyway it is in international matters that things happen.

Some very wierd



And a new Austrian cavalry unit arrives in Milan



Note at this stage Milan (& Venice) is still rather loyal to the Austrians.



In revenge, I decide to insult the Austrians (actually I need to lower our relationships)



(now of course this does feel like enacting a Monty Python scene)

Now a bit later, the first stage of the Unification fires. Hasn't shown too well, but the loyalty ratios in Venezia and Lombardy are 32% Italian (no change), 58% pro-Austrian (down 10%) and 10% rebel, so they have a large problem with annoyed locals to deal with.



And then Russia and Austria clash



So rather opportunistically I offer 'local support' to Russia. However it comes to nothing.

I also decide now my cash flow is a lot better to return to investing in extra research effort into discovering steel rails.



This message came up so it seems a good time to discuss how the research system works. As already discussed you have little control over focus (unlike Victoria) except in terms of strategically (& expensively) investing in a few lines.

[loki100]

One of those rifle advances increases your power by a lot. But, you have to buy a lot of replacements to refill once they "train up". Obviously, you won't have as much as I did, but I had shortages of 1000 in line troops. I just bought a little every turn. It made me almost the strongest overnight, except for Russia. I'm still easily in the top 2 at most times for army power/combat power of my armies.

I was rather afraid of that. It makes sense that for a power with a too large army (ie S-P) for its country size then keeping that army up to date is a real challenge. My only hope is that by the time that fires I'll be able to draw on most of Italy for manpower.

Where are these 'Cumberland Mountains' that you speak of? I supposed they're somewhere in North America, if they joined the United States, but since you describe it as 'weird', I thought I'd better ask.

For a game that has so many turns to go through, it is disquieting to realize that 1859 really isn't that far away anymore - your forces still seem rather lacking compared to that Austrian army sat in Venezia.

How expensive is it to upgrade that fort in Alessandria? I understand that, in the long run, it won't be doing anything but sitting there and looking pretty, but given the imbalance of forces, a fortress-and-cannon based defense might be your best bet when it comes to dealing with the Emperor's legions - I'm a known pessismist, but I fail to see how else you're going to dislodge the Austrians from Italy. At worst, that Austrian army might simply wreck you and that'll be the end of your dreams of unification (I assume).

1859 seems to loom very close. Its in part as I'm struggling to expand my support units as my infantry are consuming all my replacements (i've been unlucky in the speed at which the chits are consumed). In the next update I do upgrade the fort - it is indeed rather cheap.

I think what this game captures is a feeling I've invested a mass of time and effort in getting here and yet it is very unclear whether that ambition will survive a few short weeks of combat. I think, if the force in Venice is all they can spare, I can avoid defeat - I have better organisation (being a regular army) and the artillery will give me a lot of killing power on the defense. But I presume they have others that in time they will be willing to send into Italy.

As to the Cumberland things - I guess its the one in the US? But there is this strange sequence of messages where "X rebels have joined Y", and you usually wonder why they bothered with the rebel thing in the first place.

[loki100]

So, the tensions are steadily mounting (at least for me) especially as I cannot seem to solve the shortage of infantry replacements. In turn that is stopping me building up additional artillery or specialist formations.

I also give in and decide to improve the fortifications at Alessandria. I'm just not convinced I will have French support and that just might give me the means to wear down the Austrians (I'm not convinced as I can see little chance of generating a war of manouver).

Anyway, usual updates, and some odd events in Libya.

Manufactured Items (& other economic events)



Non-Manufactured Items



(not much to say here, shifting trade and what is open in an attempt to stop any more stockpiling)

Replacements



Population



My goal here is to keep average militancy below 5 so that even places like Piedmont are under control. I guess this reflects working class militancy and poor living conditions and may also be related to the factories I have shut.

It'll be interesting to see how the game models the post-1859 revolts in Southern Italy when the peasants discovered that the new state was administered by the old landlords and tax collectors. For those interested the classic book/film Il Gattopardo by di Lampedusa covers this brilliantly [1].

Diplomacy



Prestige (just to give you some idea at my lack of progress in this respect)



Events and so on.

Well I gain a couple of new commanders



Neither are exactly geniuses and I'm ok for Command Points but I'm not going to complain

As mentioned in the Manufactured goods report I built another Ammunition plant as it is something I can sell. You can check this using the B screen and then hover over the various cells. This will tell you how much is up for sale and how much is being bought. In this case I'm the only person in Europe flogging the stuff and people really want to buy it from me. Now I know the international arms trade is pure evil, but this is a means to use up my raw materials and earn some cash.



Supply is similar as are luxury goods



Mexico and the USA kiss and make up



And in Libya it looks like a massive revolt has taken control.



I knew it was going badly as my missionaries kept on being burnt down. Well if it becomes independent then I am sure it will need Italian guidance.

So a very quiet period, but never fear the next update will feature:

1. Earthquakes
2. A major diplomatic crisis with one of the major powers (& I have no allies)
3. Whatever happens in May & June (as I've only played to early May)

[1] - "Se vogliamo che tutto rimanga com'è bisogna che tutto cambi". Spoken by the Prince when Garibaldi's Red Shirts capture the town where his Palace is located, easiest translation is: 'if we want things to stay as they are it is neccessary that everything must change'

Couple of edits - first, it is indeed a long lost Russian force in Misrata, seems to have taken control when the rebels kicked out the Ottomans. Second, wine is also sellable on the world market in addition to the goods I identified.

[loki100]

I'm with you on the feeling nervous front! A lot of game playing hours could go down the swanny if the Austrians attack get some lucky rolls and take out the army. It is definately worth getting passage rights from Parma or the Papal States (although the little buggers are still refusing me) or as you said the chance for any fancy manouver warfare is nil

A couple of things I noticed

You seem to have your shipyard turned off (no points in your prestige screenshot). I know it is not profitable but it does give you 2 prestige a turn which does add up over the long haul it could well make the difference between finishing 4th and 5th (I could be wrong but I don't expect to get into the top 3 with the big boys).

The new buisnessman events in 1.03 only seem to fire when you have a minimum amount of private capital. I am finding the cut off point to be 1800. Whilst you don't always get a great deal I think over time it averages out. Since I have kept my capital over 1800 my cup has runneth over with gems and other luxuries I was finding it hard to get my hands on meaning I can finally satisfy the demand of my population for luxuries.

It is definately worth sending merchants and eventually trading posts to arabian peninsular as this will also give you a periodic income of gems,opium and coffee all guarenteed to bring smiles to the faces of the great unwashed.

I am definatley not as hardcore as you as i turned off the attrition setting mid-game it was a tad disheartning for my first game to see all my hard won replacements dissapear straight away. Might be an option to try as it does seem S-P definately has enough problems to deal with.

I think if I do carry on post-unification, I'll enable the extended claims option so as to have a lot more freedom of action but I like the attrition one, it keeps army sizes relatively small (which fits the era) and hopefully the additional manpower from the whole of Italy will ease the problems.

The shipyard was shut in one of my periodic cash crises, I don't always remember to reopen it but I agree its a small but valuable prestige gain.

Also I can't get access from either Parma or the Pope, so have the same military dilemna, but I will use the fleet to create a diversion if I can

Taiping rebellion must be in full swing, given the losses China is suffering...

The current stage is very reminiscent of earlier Paradox games, when they had events tied to date triggers: you know the Big Show is about to happen, so you really have to race to be ready for it. It almost makes you wish for the greater flexibility of, say, Victoria II or HOI 3, but I guess it also has its charms to know you have a deadline you need to make, if your game is to continue past this painstaking investment-and-preparation stage.

Yes the Taiping war and that between Persia and Afghanistan are the only ongoing wars at the moment.

I know what you mean about having the feel of EU2. I guess the difference is that the big event we are all expecting makes sense, I remember some of the late game, really dramatic shifts in EU2 occured utterly out of context, but you would still be playing in anticipation of them.

In general when I play Victoria (I'm having a fun game with Persia at the moment) I appreciate the extent that PoN constrains the player, when I play PoN I rather miss Victoria's ability to allow you to forge your own version of the nineteenth century. I think, to my mind, thats why I like them both and appreciate the different design decisions etc. I do wish that in Victoria, the nature of your state was a bigger constraint and in PoN, there is this urge to do *something*.

Just wanted to say that this is an excellent and incredibly informative AAR and has got me very, very, interested in getting PoN. Consider me subscribed.

Glad you are enjoying it. Its a very addictive game, with its own internal rythym that keeps you playing. As I've mentioned elsewhere, you can also offset some of the turn processing issue by effectively playing it in the background while you do something else.

[loki100]

Well as hinted, things happened in this period, just not the things I've been planning for. So coming up will be a combination of earthquakes, angry Russians, a collapsing Ottoman Empire and the usual stuff.

Speaking of which, here's the Manufactured Goods report (& major builds etc):



As you can see scattered in there are a number of non-planned purchases. These happen when your private capital is over 1400 and are a great way to access luxuries in particular.

Non-Manufactured.



Now the good thing is that with all these random luxuries that turn up is I can supply luxuries to my population.



Replacements and stuff (which I am slowly getting a reserve built up)



Happiness



Diplomacy



I'll spare you the colonial screens. I think you can guess that my progress is nil.

And, as promised, the big events:

The North Americans have a thing about gold



Naples has an earthquake



And, tensions with Russia



Now this is exciting, my first crisis. If I win I can gain prestige, if lose I can lose prestige or possibly stumble into a war ... and not really the war I want either.

Now what you do is to select card(s) that represent your opening commitment and then tell the AI how aggressively you want to play the subsequent portion. So its a typical AGEOD mechanism in that you set it up and then it is resolved for you. On the right hand side is a series of options for how to play it out, ranging from very cautious (you will more than likely lose but equally there is no risk of war) to very aggressive (so you may well win but you may also find yourself at war).

Below that the various cards from left to right are an escalating set of opening responses. The options are:



Now I decided to be fairly aggressive. My logic is that Russia doesn't gain from a war with me, so I can puff myself up and appear a powerful state (one of my cats being very good at this variant in feline diplomacy). So I pick two opening cards



and leave the AI response at a mid-point

All this is then resolved in the turn resolution phase and you get the outcome. Looks like no war and I did ok in terms of prestige.



This shows the complete sequence of cards and responses played in each round. It ended, rather impressively with a press conference. I imagine Malcolm Tucker explaining to the assembled media that they had failed to grasp the true nature of the situation, but in language more colourful than can be written here.

Anyway the boost to my prestige is welcome.

Now I was doing a bit of low grade colonial stuff, merchants, missionaries etc and noticed the Ottomans have lost control of a vast region which added to their problems in North Africa indicates a potential target. Once the small matter of Austria is disposed of.

[loki100]

Fairest setting for attrition is historical for player only so you play correctly but the AI with clumsier logistical competence in micro-ing troops for logistical reasons need not.

Rebel regions may from time to time give up and rejoin the nation. Many rebels don't have any other state they could form or join.

A key measure of the size of the country's economy is private capital expended in production (that left-hand minus on line 2 of the F4 Commerce report). Another key number is the size of the domestic market's 3 segments. These numbers change relatively slowly absent large shutdowns so are worth reporting at intervals. Total volume of exports and imports is interesting, but a worse measure of the economy especially if there are re-exports. Some players take an autarkic or mercantilist approach. I have been taking a pro-active marketmaking approach as described in the manual. Multiplayer is not representative of the SP game's level of demand, but in terms of capacity to trade 1866 Brazilin MP has f800-1000 value of exports per turn and imports a few hundred less. Much of that is for re-export, limited by the fact a minor cannot sell through its ships, while majors can do so and have enormously more potential because of this. Trade develops your trading partners and commercial agreements improve relations. Almost everything is in demand somewhere around the world - just need fleets in most key markets and goods on offer and some orders should come in, especially if they got money from your purchases.

I'm trying for a trade model, even importing things like wines from S America and passing it off as good quality Barolo for the unsuspecting N European market ... . it does seem odd as the natural tendency is to want to control your own manufacturing chain but I recall when PoN first came out there was a lot of advice that the player should try to lubricate the world market. I'm going to try to build some more fleets and send them off to the Far East to see if that can trigger some more trade opportunities.

My domestic market numbers are 18/16/11 and have been stuck for a while. It looks like I'm a year/18 months off two inventions firing that will boost demand - that will be welcome as I have a fair few closed facilities.

I'll try to start reporting the capital number. I can see what you mean, its a good proxy for activity as its the standard input. Its just at the moment, my economy is basicially stable. I sometimes open up something to rebuild the stockpile, but that is all that is changing.

In an earlier post on this thread or another, I spoke about those "rebel controlled" regions. They seem to be a headache. I restarted my whole game after the 1.03 patch and so the regions I had taken before, I no longer had. But, new ones have rebelled against Russia. So, I took over one and I have MC 100%. It won't let me build there, though. I have control of the factories, so it is somewhat worth it, I guess. The Russians moved a force into the region and are just sitting there "neutral". I imagine if I moved my troops out, they'd retake it.

Might be something to think about when you see rebel controlled areas.

And of course, rebels (I think, usually) are flagged as "at war" with your country, so you can attack them.

Guess its a bit like imposing martial law and taking advantage of being in charge in the short term. You can't develop the region but you can .. ahem *assist* it in its time of need?

I do think they need some mechanisms to clean up this problem. Even if it is as crude as a teleport to the nearest owned territory say 10 turns after a war ends?

You can also use the 'relations' overlay, to get a good overview of the rebel problem - stands out better than the little flags indicate.

I am going to go for the Ottomans once I've done the business with Austria. Its falling apart, so there is a chance to grab some useful holdings. I think post-unification I'll swap to 'extended claims' so I can act a bit more freely.

[loki100]

Well the main business in this period was waiting for the Piombieres decision to fire. From the file it can happen any time from July 1858 to July 1860 but with a high probability of happening early in that period.

Now, given that I have played into 1859, I've realised that somehow I missed it. Or I assume so, as the third event in the unification decision chain (the mobilisation order and a further increase in militancy in the Veneto and Lombardy) happened in early 1859. The reason may be that I signed a defensive treaty with France over the Russian crisis, but my reading of the file is that should have no effect on the Piombieres decision?

Anyway, I spent the time trading, some low key building (not a lot as I'm storing capital for a post unification building boom) and whacking some annoying French rebels. I'm prepared to cede Nice and Savoy, but they have to ask nicely first, and come and kill some Austrians.

So the usual stuff:

Manufactured goods (& big events)



Non-Manufactured.



The grumpy sods of Piedmont report:


(the quicker I have Juventus cheating their way to the SerieA title, the quicker they will cheer up?)

Replacements



Diplomacy



and the actual events.

Well lets start with an OOB review. With my defensive treaty in place I get to see the deployment of the French army.




Now I want to ensure that Austria doesn't like me. So what better than to degrade relationships.

If I'm lucky I may gain a diplomatic crisis that I can escalate. Well they don't like me



(more green the more friendly)

You can use this mapmode to spot revolts as technically I am at war with any rebel, anywhere. Well the Ottomans are not having much fun.



Well just to punish me for rubber necking at other people's misfortune, I then got my very own domestic rebellion. Here am I preparing for the war to secure Italy's destiny and I have a rebellion. Even worse, it seems they were related to some wider French stushie.


(not sure why, and I have run the 'clean up loyalty' script)

Well its amazing how fast they go away when you send in the cavalry (and the men-in-hats).

Anyway after that, it appears that the Russians still have a thing with Austria. Somehow the idea of that pair going to war rather cheers me up



Pity.

No sign of Austria actually planning to declare war. Indeed it looks like that army that was around Venice has gone away (Russian border?).

[loki100]

Bad luck with the rebels but at least you got to use your shiney military toy for a turn or so. I also have several stuctures turned off which can be instantly turned on again. While this probably works game wise in real life i don't think this would be possible without consequences (maybe there is a hidden dynamic where it affects militancy and population happiness).

All looking good though. Lets hope the game cooperates and fires those events

well the rebels were no sport at all. My cavalry rode into town and they all just vanished - I wish the rebels in my Rome AAr were as easy to disperse. In general, I think PoN has a problem with the rebellion rules, in particular about how MC and direct control shifts during a rebellion.

Someone told me about unemployment and that it can affect militancy. I have an issue with my capital region went to 100 militancy, with no other regions above 5. I did not get any revolts there, though. I asked about it and someone asked, "How is your unemployment?" So, I think it can indeed affect your militancy.

Loki, rebels (not the ones rebelling against you) might be something for you not to worry too much about. If you have to garrison those regions, it doesn't seem like a good trade-off. In my game, rebels actually took Paris. I'm at war with France and I bet if I take Paris from the rebels instead of the French, it won't help my war score. Maybe I'll send through some quick horse soldiers and clear out the rebels, thereby opening the way for a quick return to the French...

As above, they haven't lasted long enough to be any issue. In this case I would actually have cleared them out for the French, I don't want Nappy III feeling distracted, he has Austrians to come and kill

The militancy thing could be right, but its odd it is so (in my case) concentrated in Piedmont/Turin

This reminds me of a press conference at which Louis van Gaal, coaching Ajax at the time, responded to a question - which he obviously considered ill-informed - with the statement (loosely translated): "Am I such a genius or are you all just that stupid?"

Anyway, interesting to see the crisis system in action.

Good luck shifting the Austrians out of Italy, especially if you're right and that event (too lazy to bother looking up the correct spelling) won't fire.

I like the fact that you managed to make use of your gondoliers-in-arms. I imagine them singing Oh sole mio while bashing in the skulls of French rebels with their punting poles.

van Gaal has never suffered from self-doubt has he?

as in the next post, Piombieres must have fired and I must have missed it. What it doesn't do though is to make the Austrian AI do anything. It now has a CB on me (I have one on them too) but there is no trigger to make it act on that. So its all a waiting game.

Your AAR is very informative Thx for your work

I'm glad you find it useful. My logic to doing it was to demystify some of the mechanics and dynamics in PoN.

1. Can you enter regions in France owned by rebels and take them to your country? I can imagine you gain more economical benefits than taking Venice from Austria^^
2. Now you are waiting for Crisis vs you vs Austria, or Austria with other GP and backstab Austria from behind?

There is (next post) a rebellion in the Veneto but I doubt they will take the fort, but yes its all a waiting game. Austria keeps on coming close to war with Russia so in the worst case that is my opportunity, but I daren't start the war as I lose my French support and they have a defensive alliance with Prussia.

More of the same. I imagine an exchange between the heads of state something like:

"How about a nice war with Austria!"

"Non."

"Are you ready for war now?"...

This is scarily accurate. The only missing bit is I am acting like a trucelent teenager sticking my tongue out at my elders and betters in the hope of provoking outrage ... so I can then pretend to be outraged in turn.

Going off on a slight tangent, but - somewhat - related to the game, it has always been a mind-boggler of the first magnitude to me that Nappy III, upon nearly being assassinated by an Italian nationalist, decided that the proper reponse was to dismember Austria and hand the Italian bits to Sardegna-Piemont. It doesn't seem to send the right message about not negotiating with terrorists.

<Lightbulb starts to flicker dimly>

Maybe that's what's needed, loki: try to assassinate Louis and watch as the French come running to cut down the Austrians!

N3 made very little sense in the whole period. After the victories Tuscany/Parma and Central Italy erupted, partly nationalist, mostly Republican revolts so he panicked and tried to get S-P to agree to Lombardy alone (but with the key fort of Mantua left in Austrian hands) and pointless federation of the existing Italian states (since 2 had fallen and Papal power had collapsed this was not very feasible). He came close to threatening S-P with war. In the end he tried to force them to accept Lombardy (which Cavour was prepared to accept) but the idea of the status quo ante bellum elsewhere was one for the faeries.

its been suggested he was afraid of possible war with Prussia if Austria was pushed too far.

[Pocus]

Thanks for moving your AAR over there!

[Dewirix]

I suppose I'll be following you here from now on. Have to take some time to get used to my new home.

Watch out for that Garibaldi chap, not sure what to think of him.

[loki100]

Thanks for moving your AAR over there!

thank you, I think it will take a week/10 days to migrate the old stuff and then I'll start adding new material

I suppose I'll be following you here from now on. Have to take some time to get used to my new home.

Watch out for that Garibaldi chap, not sure what to think of him.

its quite nice and friendly over here too ... yeah, I somehow suspect that Garibaldi is going to be nothing but trouble

[loki100]

So 1859 rolls around (216 game turns played so far), and I'm all ready to unify Italy. Well I'm not but I am now stuck in a sort of limbo. War with Austria could start at any moment so I daren't even consider other options (and feasting on the corpse of the Ottoman empire is rather attractive – well not as a simile but as an idea). Equally I'm a bit unwilling to start investing in the case of war, ideally I'd like a large capital stock to start developing the rest of the peninsular.

Anyway, we'll start with the usual reports.

Manufactured Goods and Events



As suggested this shorter report shows the amount of capital I am using as my economy runs (remember that capital is an input to all production – primary and secondary – time to dust down my old copy of the Grundrisse.)



Well that is informative as to how stable my economy currently is but I don't think its a report I'll run very often.

Non-Manufactured



Replacements



This is coming under control. In particular I am building up a reserve of the very expensive (in manpower terms) infanty replacements.

My happy citizens:



And then the actual events.

Rumania forms – that is nice for them, but what about Italy?



I carry on sticking my tongue out at the Austrians. I'm sure at some stage they will take the hint?



And almost immediately things happen.



I mean just how much gold do the Americans want?

Oh yes, war footing. Now this means that I must have missed the Piombieres event (or it didn't fire as I already had a defense treaty with the French?). Anyway the real impact is it gives the Austrians an even bigger rebel problem in Lombardia-Veneto. It doesn't force the Austrian AI to actually react to this annoyance.



As you can see, rebels in the Veneto have lost no time spawning and the Austrians just decide to ignore them. However, the base militancy (30%) is correct if both this decision and Piombieres have fired.

Other countries have crises and tensions



And wars.



So I insult the Austrians again



But note their defence alliance with Prussia. So if I declare war not only do I lose my French backing, I'll have to fight most of Germany.

In response the King of Two Sicilies dies – I must be more careful with my language?



At the end of all that, here is the diplomatic positions (forgot to take the screenshots for January)

[loki100]

Glad to see the clarification regarding Ottoman corpse feasting.

thats always a problem when you mix your metaphors with your similes

Now, in defense of the American gold obsession, they should have a fairly large-scale fraternal get-together between Northern and Southern chums soon, and that special kind of display of fillial affection (i.e. Minie balls, Winchester repeating carbines) does take an awful lot of fundraising to get done properly.

Odd you should mention that given what happens in the next post

As far as your situation goes: you're all geared up with nowhere to go. If I were to impute rationality to the Austrian AI (yeah, no), then I would say that they're doing exactly the right thing by ignoring you. Their defensive alliance with the dread Prussians rules out the option that you're gonna declare war on them, and why would they bother doing you the favor by declaring war on you? What could they possibly gain? More rebellious Italians? I suspect that their current experience in Veneto gives ample proof (if proof were needed) that that is not in their interest.

Anyway, enough what-if pontificating. I look forward to seeing how you resolve this stalemate. Will the Austrians blunder into war despite my best efforts to paint them as rational actors? Will you boldly go forth and do What A Man's Gotta Do? Or will you simply ignore the whole thing for the time being, and instead perform some unspeakable acts on the Sick Man of Europe?

Yep, I'm trapped. I've so insulted the Austrians that there is a reasonable chance of a crisis so I daren't even think of using the army in N Africa. In a way its akin to modelling Japan in the HOI timeline. A sensibly coded AI won't attack the US. Now its clear there is no final trigger here, so all I can do is wait and hope. If I get a crisis with them, I'll escalate it as much as I can.

Can you wait until 1866? That is when the German state crisis happens and Prussia gets a casus-belli against Austria. If they are historical that should mean they fight a war.

I think I will need to, If Prussia and Austria are fighting then that is going to be my only chance - unless Austria and Russia get stuck into each other

One thing to try might be to mass all your troops in alessandria as I think the ai takes this into account when it is calculating whether a crises occurs ( which I got from the manual I think ). Not sure how much this increased chance but might be worth a go.

Vaguely disappointing that you have all these events shepherding you into a situation where the final piece is in the hands of the Austrian AI. Still you said the peaceful reunification based on the decision cards should fire for you in a few years (allegedly!)

I've tried putting my army on their borders, sending the fleet into the Adriatic etc and they are not taking the hint. If needs be I'll just have to wait for the 1860s chain, hope that comes before an Austro-Prussian war and see if I can manage an effective stab in the back

[loki100]

Featuring a very big war ... But first the usual stuff

Manufactured goods and related events



Non-manufactured



Replacements



(the two new units fill out my armies so each has 3 specialist artillery batteries and 2 supply wagons)

Happy people



Anyway on to the events. Well its always a good idea to hurl some more insults at the Austrians.



The Venetians remian in revolt, seemingly of no interest at all to the Austrians



My new trading fleet goes off to the coast off China



(as we will see in 1860 this proves to have been an inspired idea)

France and America have a major falling out



Just in time for more Americans to go crazy for gold



So diplomatic position at the end:



My prestige



Oh yes, I did mention a war didn't I?



Coming up next, an economic crisis, Garibaldi goes walk about, hungry Chinese and my population fancy more goods to keep them in the lifestyle they prefer.

[loki100]

Your businessmen continue to spend 100$ in private capital for 2 units of opium. A new fashion in Torino, or a testament to the entrepreneurial spirit of the Piemontese people?

well given that its open market price is about $12 I think they were ripped off in some shady deal. But lets assume its all for medicinal purposes

Oh goody, the Americans are off to show the world that nobody can kill Americans as well as fellow Americans!

I am mortified at my inexperience, but pray tell what all those orangey provinces in the (now-divided) USA are? Lower-case rebels?

As Fadi_Efendi points out, the amount of opium being imported is eyebrow-raising. Oh well, different times, different mores...

I think the orange bits are Indian held - I seem to recall reading somewhere they pushed back the frontier settlements 100s of miles during the Civil War due to the withdrawal of troops?

Well it made Sherlock Holmes the man he was ...

[loki100]

So 240 turns played and the Austrians refuse to commit suicide and attack me. However, events are about to happen, but first the usual stuff. In part the lack of incipient war led me to commence using up my capital stocks.

Manufactured Goods and decisions

I've started trying to manage the economy a lot more actively by looking to create demand so this time I'll add the capital input table as well as that is informative in a period of change. Also my shipyard is not just producing useful prestige, its become profitable – not sure if this is related to my expansion of my merchant fleet.





As you can see my volume of production varied a lot. At the start I was just adjusting to keep my stocks more or less static, to the end I had opened up stuff to feed the growing Chinese market.

Non-Manufactured



Replacements



Main thing here is I am steadily building up a replacement reserve but not really generating enough manpower to go much beyond that. So any new stuff is going to be artillery and specialist units for a while.

Happy People



Diplomacy



and the unfolding dramas:


This leads to an expansion of domestic demand



This is welcome as I can reopen some of my primary production sites and it allows even more trade.

I could upgrade my coal field to a pit. Decide not to bother as it is closed and loss making in any case.



About ths stage rebels take Venice, all this does is to provoke an Austrian response



Seems, as ever, a good idea to insult an Austrian



At which this fun message pops up



Italy here we come ... or not



Ok, I now think there is a real problem with the game model around rebels. I know I had no control over that force but it was at least as powerful as the Bourbon army and its just evaporated when they marched into Sicily.

Well the only gain from that is I now have a CB on the Two Sicilies. If the Pope would give me military access then I might be able to do something.

Given the success of the Chinese venture, my new trading fleet heads off to India to see if they want to buy some fish too



Yep the Chinese really like eating Italian cows and fish (later they get a taste for my cereals too)



Prestige



The American Civil War seems to be rather favouring the Union.



Well on the basis of that set of turns Garibaldi is not going to have any biscuits, or streets in every town in Italy, named after him.

[loki100]

Couldn't you just Ship troops down there to fight them rather than having to walk down there.

I have the naval capacity to move one of my corps so it would be a bit lopsided but I guess I could land in say Bari (not sure what PoN calls the province) and defend till more arrives. My problem is I've created a stalemate with Austria. I daren't move as knowing my luck a diplomatic crisis will kick off and I'll be out of position. So its a case of regular begging letters to the Pope or they last till 64-66 when the next chain kicks in

Looking good with the China trade. I am finding both Japan and china are useful at soaking up that excess farm produce. The spamming of merchant fleets definitely seems to be worthwhile. Very jealous of your domestic production.

Unlucky about garibaldi. Do you know how or if that affects the unification chain? Might have to think about that defensive alliance I made with the Two Scilies.

I wish I'd realised about the merchant gambit earlier. This ability to use your fleets to sell stuff is a game changer in terms of your domestic economy. I'm actually buying stuff in to sell on - my hope is this will then allow someone the cash to buy more of my goods.

S-P has become a little economic powerhouse, the rest of Italy is mired in pastoralism, maybe a couple of factories no more. So its going to be quite a job to balance it all out.

Garibaldi I think was meant to fire after I'd taken Venezia-Lombardy (as historically), presume I'd have been given military access or whatever as part of that chain. So its a bit out of sense, but still disappointing to see that 'rebel' force just disappear.

Trying to read the event files, I'm now waiting for:

1861-5, First Parliament - this will give me Parma & Tuscany & (I think) Romagna (Bologna)
1862 Roma o Morte (which historically almost led to war with France and led to Garibaldi getting the boot), now I don't think this can fire as I don't have Calabria (as Garibaldi has failed)
1865, Firenze becomes the capital and everyone cheers up
1866-69 France abandons Rome, now since the event that put their forces there hasn't fired I'm not sure about this one
1867-9, Rome becomes the capital

This completes the chain, I get some buildings, new units and new options

Or there is yet another chain - 1866-75 that more or less delivers that final outcome.

So it seems that by 1870, perhaps lacking Lombardia-Veneto, I will have a guarenteed unification

I guess I just need to look for a chance to war with Austria then, if they fight Prussia and that triggers the chaos around the creation of the Dual Monarchy that has to be my hope

Looks like the CSA is not long for this world. Much like Garibaldi, it would seem: he came, he saw... he ran away? Not exactly a sterling start to the reunification of Italy, but at least you didn't have to actually invest anything into his little magical Sicilian disappearing trick. And you have a back-up option, so in the long run it'll still all belong to you. Warts and all: I wonder if the backwardness of the rest of the country is going to drag your economy down, when that happy day of reunification comes?

As to the last point, as it did historically yes. Looking over the map there is one, maybe 2, industrial structures in Italy outside S-P. I'm slowly building a rail line in preparation for the glorious day but its going to be a real shock of shifting from a relatively well organised industrial economy back to one largely dominated by agriculture (all very realistic). Historically this was made worse by giving up on the South almost immediately and allowing the tax-farmers and latifundi to continue as if the Bourbons had never left. That in turn seriously undermined any identification with the new state (that many saw as an S-P conquest in any case) and led to major peasant revolts in 1860-70 and then regular unrest up to the outbreak of WW1.

I was wondering what levels have you set your taxes to and do you tweak them? I am interested particularly in your tariff tax level as that directly affects your domestic demand. Just being nosy what volume of goods are you buying and selling each turn?

I'm not changing them much. That is bringing in enough to fund one line of research investment. In cash terms I'm buying around £200 per turn and selling about £400, as essentially I'm buying in primary products and selling manufactures. I could optimise that quite a lot more but I'm taking the role of helping the world economy along seriously. Not least of course, you get the shipping tax in addition, so volume matters as much as raw profit.

The new Garibaldi product will be 'evaporated' milk.

At this point is there any reason to still want a war with Austria? Or should you try to mend relations and wait for the other events to fire?

Ba-dum tish.

<Takes on a tone of authority to hide an absolute lack of knowledge>

Here, let me put down my pipe and adjust my slippers before I answer your question. I believe that, without the delicious war with Austria, the unified Italy will still sadly lack its rightful territories in Lombardia and Venice. Therefore, war remains of the utmost import for the proper fulfillment of Sardegna-Piemonte's manifest destiny.

... and 'vanishing' cream!

If loki declares war on Austria, will France support him?

Stuyvesant is spot on. The chain, whether the 'proper' one or the imposed 1865+ version gives me all Italy apart from Lombardia-Veneto-Friule-Trieste. Now in reality, especially Lombardy was an economic power house, in this game its an agricultural wasteland, so one motivation is lost.

But to get the Po valley and upper Adriatic I need to beat Austria somehow. Diplomatically we are in a stand off. If I DoW, I have no support and they have Prussia (at the moment there is a defensive alliance), if they DoW they have no support and I have France. I think the Austrian AI is being frustratingly logical (& its better than it being hard coded to suicide) in that it is riding out the storm of low key revolt in N Italy as representing no real threat.

So there are two ways - one is a crisis. That can fire at any time with any nation where you have less than favourable (+25) relations. If so, I'd escalate, and hope they stumble into war, if not then I clean up a huge prestige stash (akin to the US-French one a few posts back). To get relations to +25 would be an immense task, so I have to keep in mind this could happen at any time.

The other is Austria in a war, there is a potentially scripted chain with Prussia around 1866 and they keep on having crises with Russia. In the case of a war, I'm in on my own, but if they take a battering I might be able to grab N Italy (I have to gamble). If the Prussian fires after the rest of the unification, I'll have a larger army and a bit of space to manouver if it goes a bit wrong.

I'm not sure that Garibaldi's ego would have coped with the events in this game. No fame, no glory, just a damp squib of an event in Sicily.

Thanks for the clarification, Stuyvesant. I'm still struggling with Vic II (though after four tries as different nations I have finally survived to 1900 as Japan) and not sure how the event chains work.

Oddly I find PoN a bit easier than V2 in some respects. I think its that the turn ending/processing structure creates points where you need to sit down and review things while in V2 it sort of trundles on. I'm turning the slow turn processing of PoN to my advantage. I'm running it a lot while working on a different computer, so I then check the turn outcome, make changes etc, and then run another turn.

What I do find is that with V2 I sometimes wish for more hard wired constraints and with PoN I wish for a bit more flexibility to create my own world - I guess that just makes me inconsistent.

I think that once partial unification has happened I am going to remove the constraint in PoN and see if I can develop an a-historic empire in the Eastern Med and Eastern Africa.

[loki100]

Well with Garibaldi dunked, I guess we really are in for a long haul. So my goal is to be prepared, resist all temptations, hope for a crisis and see if there is any other way I can gain prestige.

So off we go with the usual stuff, but first a confession, I forgot to take the base line data (ie July) but if you want you can see late June in the previous post. Promise not to do this again.

Manufactures and Big Events

Here I am producing high end factories that produce stuff I can sell, plus stimulate demand for raw inputs. Increasingly I am trading for these and saving my own capital. The goal with the merchants is to try and cover the globe if I can.



As you can see there is a very nautical flavour to my industrial strategy at this stage



Essentially the economy is stable, I am opening and shutting some of the marginal stuff with an eye to stockpiles and sales.

Non Manufactured



Not much to note there, my fish stocks are falling (but that is easy to either buy in or re-open my own production), same with wood, roughly I'm holding things steady which is my basic idea.

Replacements



Starting to get this under control. May even be able to afford a new infantry division at some stage.

Happy Persons



Diplomacy



Not much to say there. I'm building relations with a number of smaller powers for trade reasons. Greece as I'd like an alliance with them (and thus the potential for conflict with the Ottomans) and my relationship with Austria has hit rock bottom (& not by accident).

Prestige



Again not much to say. I need one form or other of the unification chain before that will start to improve.


And the ongoing events

So lets start, and end, with insulting an Austrian



A rather useful invention fires.



So that makes my units stronger on the defense, and confirms my bias to fighting defensive battles if I can.

Another useful invention is that of military decorations. Now I know my army has fought no battles but that is no reason for it not to be well decorated



Anyway, that increases the cohesion of my forces which will also improve their combat performance.

And then the medal option appears on the military screen



Note this has the effect on population morale not on military competence, but does yield some more officers. Well I'll take it in any case. Note that National Morale is only really important in case of war, but anything over 100 (the base line) has a few small advantages.

Finally, my latest merchant fleet goes off to SE Asia

[loki100]

Looks good, albeit a bit of a holding pattern. Economically, you seem to be doing well - do you even want those backwards bits that dangle south of you on the Italian Peninsula? I guess you need the prestige, the expanded colonial options and you could of course always opt to run the south better than historically happened.

Very much the case that Garry Baldy was an utter failure, but I'm not sure you can now claim you're 'in for [the] long haul' - I believe Thandros might want to have a word with you about that description.

yep poor Baldy. I do actually think if you take one of the second (or third?) tier powers in PoN, then you need to accept you are constrained by the game engine. Anyway, I came near to recycling my RoP AAR title for the new CK one.

I think the main reason for acquiring the 'dangley' bits of the Italian peninsula would be to acquire manpower. S-P biggest constraint in my opinion has got to be their paltry conscript replacement rate. Whilst I am not 100% sure I guess when you unify italy the conscripts rate should increase accordingly.

that is what I am hoping, I should be able to build a large enough army that I can then risk having a substantial element deployed outside Italy liberating provinces from Ottoman rule and so on. At the moment, conscripts are so few that it is near impossible to build up the main bulk of the army, and feel rather constrained to adding specialist and support units instead.

[Stuyvesant]

Password reset so that I can access this from work - reporting for duty, sah!

I'll let you get back to the posting, but it looks like you're about 1/3 of the way there. At least in terms of years played. Thanks for the effort, I look forward to the (eventual) continuation of your Austrian Cliffhanger.

[loki100]

Password reset so that I can access this from work - reporting for duty, sah!

I'll let you get back to the posting, but it looks like you're about 1/3 of the way there. At least in terms of years played. Thanks for the effort, I look forward to the (eventual) continuation of your Austrian Cliffhanger.

aye its going a bit quicker than I had expected, you'll note that this time I'm trying to save the comments and discussions as I tihnk they add so much to this exploration

[loki100]

So we are now really waiting for the secondary unification chain. Fortunately a few new inventions give me new things to do (and I can play PoN while cooking/doing other work, so its surprising how much progress you can make).

In the meantime, I can only hope for Austria to stumble into a war that at best brings in France as my defender and at worst means their alliance with Prussia is broken.

I think I am starting to see why for Single Player, PoN only has a few playable nations. In truth you are very locked into the nineteenth century norms and that means few wars between the major powers. Equally its worth remembering how unexpected were the events of 1859. Napoleon + Cavour could only get respective agreements to a defensive alliance and that meant hoping Austria would take the bait. Even as tensions rose in February, the British seemed to have mediated a settlement, making Austrian aggression unlikely. Some Italian history textbooks used to refer to this as the 'miracle of 1859' (guess they still do).

Anyway, first the regular reports and then the main events:

Manufactured Goods & other economic events



Non-Manufactured Goods



Again, my basic goal here is to keep the stocks under control and to meet the growing demand from China for my fish, cows, wine and cereals.

Happy People



These increases in population are welcome as they in turn want more goods to satisfy their needs

Replacements



Not much to say here. I am slowly building up an unused reserve which will be handy. Over time that is either a new formation or the means to pay the replacement costs of a major military upgrade.

Diplomacy



This shows the end of June only. There is little that is changing but I am slowly trying to bring more nations onto my 'best mates' list.

Events

I decide to invest cash into speeding up another of the techs that will have the effect of boosting demand for goods (in effect it increases demand by 10% in each of the 3 categories)



In my mind this is good as it creates domestic demand that I can meet either by production or by increased trade.

Another useful tech has fired that allows for more exciting colonial activities. I can send people off to look at the natives and the animals and things.



Note these loop back into improved prestige which I could really do with boosting.



I also set up a new trading post – this time in a coffee producing province (so I get a regular supply of 1 unit about every 2-3 turns)



Other events fire that improve the efficiency of some of my industry. I'll not list these but they tend to increase efficiency (ie more output for less input) or increase volume per factory (more input & more output).

But this one opens up a new, and rather useful, decision.



So that can be used to drive down militancy (good to use in Piedmont) and increases the development level (good for industrial and agricultural efficiency).

And my new merchant fleet goes off to the West Coast of America. Not only might this net me some more sales, but I fancy a cut of all that gold that has been discovered



Cavour steps down (ill-health), well he's not achieved much in any case



Prestige continues to be rather unimpressive



By June, the American Civil War looks pretty much resolved:

[loki100]

Looking rather solid. And some colonial action, even if it's rather low-key stuff. I like Racosoli's natty 'tache - really seems meant for diabolical twirling.

The American Civil War seems to be winding down, but I do notice there's some grey on the far left of your screenshot: they have taken refuge in the deserts of New Mexico?

I think they have a couple of provinces around California so taht makes sense.

I agree about Racosoli's face fuzz, all he needs is the top hat and he'd be just the person to empty the poor house on the grounds its all too soft for the working classes ...

If you can get supply and a couple of expedition type units (about 35 power each) into those colonial type places, you could build a coffee plantation and a railroad and really start raking in those coffee units. That's what I have done with Prussia (I was able to do it even before I got the full scope of colonial cards). I built a pre-industrial fort and built a depot and upgraded the depot several times. I got my depot to level 4 and put in a railroad and it really started paying off pretty quickly.

thats great advice. I'm actually a fair way ahead as I've had time for my rather odd approach to playing PoN. I managed 1862 while making Damson jam and 1863 while cleaning and oiling the floorboards ... I think when I finish I should publish the PoN cookery book? But I build one explorer in, I think 1862, and over time it really seems to drive my CP up, so I've just (early 64 - cabbage & meat balls + polenta) built another and its on its way ...

Looks like the ACW is all over but the pouting...

Still no response from the Austrians. King Log is on the throne, it seems.

I think it drags out into 1862 but yes, there can be nothing left to provide a basis for a war. USA losses are just over 37,000 and I'd guess most of those are in the Civil War (no idea what the CSA has lost), so it looks like the default event in PoN is fairly non threatening.

Nope the Austrians are not taking the hint. At this rate Silvio is going to born speaking German - well I guess there is a bright side to every grey cloud?

[loki100]

This is very much a period of little events. With my new colonial decisions, I am putting my interest into my presence in E Africa and manage to set up another (potentially coffee producing) trading post.

Manufactures and other economic events




Note that in this period my domestic capital was too low to allow me to gain those bonus luxuries. This is a pain as the only one I can gain easily is the luxury furniture and you cannot supply all their needs with just one item.

My industry (second table) fluctuated in part as I juggled stocks and in part at the end I closed a load of stuff down (I know, this gets more Thatcherite by the update) in order to free up capital. I want to get the stock back over 1400 so I gain those bonus goodies and that also helps keep militancy down and contentment up.

Non-Manufactured goods



Replacements



My goal here is to build up enough replacements to cope with a series of military upgrades or even a new Infantry Corps if I can.

Happy people charts



So the population increase is useful but as you can see the militancy has dipped quite a lot mainly as I now have a new, rather useful, decision to play.



Insulting Austria and the 'mates' list



And the main events over these six months

I gain more prestige



This shows the result of my first explorer type activity



So I decide to do some more. It often fails a few times before they set off.



And I have enough leverage to build a second trading post. This time on a coffee producing province.



You've not seen this for a while. But I have made some progress, back in December 1855 I was at 20 for Abyssinia, 22 for Somalia and 23 for Eritrea. So ... well it is progress ... of a sort ... just very slow.

On the subject of people moving slowly, Cavour has gone and died.



Moving equally slowly is my prestige gains (despite the new found colonial dynamism)



Well I still am nowhere near the top list. Note that China's losses are now over 1 million.

[loki100]

You certainly have an interesting approach to playing PON - I have tons of chores around the house myself, maybe I should experiment with your technique.

The one thing that really stood out to me was that you showed us some screenshots titled 'insulting Austria', but the screenshots seemed to indicate that your relations improved... Are the Australians that thick, or your diplomats that incompetent?

its allowed me to make progress in the less interesting turns, quick check of the message log, quick check there are no new decisions, minor twiddle with the economy, press 'new turn' and come back 10 mins later. Doesn't work when you need to pay attention though ... and you do sometimes forget what you were doing ..

I make no comment about Australians, at least in this AAR. I think there is a built in drift away from an extreme position and you can only insult so often. So I guess it depends on when I last played the option. The only advantage is it mildly increases the chance of a crisis with them.