Bullman
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When does weather change?

Tue Nov 26, 2013 2:09 pm

I know that weather conditions are more or less random based on location and season.
But when do weather conditions (I am talking mainly at sea) actually change?

If at the start of a turn I see clear or even rough sea weather in a sea zone, does that mean it will remain like that for the entire upcoming turn, only changing essentially at the end of the last day of that turn?

Or can the weather change mid turn, anywhere between the first and last day of the turn?

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arsan
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Tue Nov 26, 2013 5:22 pm

I think what you see on map is the wheather on the turn that has just finished, not the next turn.
So you have to make your orders without knowing what the weather conditions will be when they are executed.
It's always risky to move around sea regions prone to storms :bonk: Keep your fingers crossed! ;)

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Erik Springelkamp
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Tue Nov 26, 2013 6:40 pm

arsan wrote:I think what you see on map is the wheather on the turn that has just finished, not the next turn.
So you have to make your orders without knowing what the weather conditions will be when they are executed.
It's always risky to move around sea regions prone to storms :bonk: Keep your fingers crossed! ;)


I asked a similar question recently in RoP, and the answer was that the weather can change each day during a turn.

So at the start and the end of a turn everything can seem calm on the map, while during the turn storms or mud or snow can have affected the execution of your turn.

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arsan
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Tue Nov 26, 2013 7:36 pm

InterestinG! i always thought weather was generate just once per turn and it didn't change at all during turn resolution. :bonk:

Bullman
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Wed Nov 27, 2013 2:22 pm

arsan wrote:I think what you see on map is the wheather on the turn that has just finished, not the next turn.
So you have to make your orders without knowing what the weather conditions will be when they are executed.
It's always risky to move around sea regions prone to storms :bonk: Keep your fingers crossed! ;)


Well seems I have found that out the hard way in a PBEM. :cursing:

The loss was quite catastrophic and I certainly wasn't thinking it could happen because I plotted a path through clear sea zones. Actually there were no storms sea regions visible at all in the immediate map view.

Now that I know how the weather can change at sea mid turn, it changes many things.

It becomes apparent just how useless the weather/storm marker you see (or don't see!) displayed in sea regions really is. OK, so you start a turn and see empty sea zones and some with storm weather. You obviously know that planning a sea route through a zone marked as storm is looking for trouble, so you avoid it. Keep in mind, you actually have no idea how long that weather in that sea zone is going to persist. So you plan an alternate route. But how safe is it? You look at the season and all you can say is that it is "more likely" to encounter storms during the winter months than the summer months. How much more likely? I have no idea.

I am sure storms/good weather are/is more likely to occur in certain sea zones more than others but this information is not given to the player. Or even that storms are more likely in sea regions close to existing storms. I am sure if you play the game long enough you might get a feel for which sea zones are more likely to suffer from storms but really, the game should at least provide this kind of information.

I'm not expecting 21st century weather tables and predictions, but I am sure the naval commanders of the day had a better feel for what were dangerous waters in the Mediterranean Sea than what we as players have at the moment.

Perhaps this kind of information should be made available to the player.

Hister
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Wed Nov 27, 2013 4:33 pm

Well, many ships on the bottom of the sea that were excavated until now attest that sailing back then wasn't a walk in the park either...

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Bohémond
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Wed Nov 27, 2013 4:37 pm

If you check the HostLog file, you can see that weather is set once for each turn (30 days).

Regards
Marco, perché vai così forte in salita?» «Per abbreviare la mia agonia.

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Philippe
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Wed Nov 27, 2013 5:28 pm

[quote="Bullman"]

I'm not expecting 21st century weather tables and predictions, but I am sure the naval commanders of the day had a better feel for what were dangerous waters in the Mediterranean Sea than what we as players have at the moment.

QUOTE]

Ancient commanders had read Hesiod's Works and Days and (a few years later) Vergil's Georgics and knew that boats and winter are a very bad combination.

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Erik Springelkamp
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Wed Nov 27, 2013 7:37 pm

Bohémond wrote:If you check the HostLog file, you can see that weather is set once for each turn (30 days).


So I didn't understand this answer, and 'hit by winter' meant hit by the already existing winter?
http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?32896-Playing-the-Russians&p=294780&viewfull=1#post294780

When I read the HostLog, the weather changes at the end of the turn, and the weather on the map is to be trusted for the whole next turn?

And storms behave according to a different algorithm?

Bullman
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Fri Nov 29, 2013 1:45 pm

Erik Springelkamp wrote:When I read the HostLog, the weather changes at the end of the turn, and the weather on the map is to be trusted for the whole next turn?

And storms behave according to a different algorithm?


I have looked at the HostLOg file as well and I see that the following weather logs are created at the very start and at the very end of the turn.

(Reporting) Starting CalcWeatherPatterns
(Reporting) AltWeatherCalc True
(Reporting) weaUniqueDiceRoll False
(Reporting) Weather severity dice for area 153 Weather_Arctic : 41
(Reporting) Weather severity dice for area 163 Weather_Continental_EST : 18
(Reporting) Weather severity dice for area 151 Weather_Continental_EUC : 61
(Reporting) Weather severity dice for area 150 Weather_Continental_GRM : 3
(Reporting) Weather severity dice for area 159 Weather_Continental_ORI : 23
(Reporting) Weather severity dice for area 162 Weather_Desertic : 47
(Reporting) Weather severity dice for area 166 Weather_Mediterranean_AFR : 39
(Reporting) Weather severity dice for area 154 Weather_Mediterranean_BAL : 84
(Reporting) Weather severity dice for area 155 Weather_Mediterranean_EST : 17
(Reporting) Weather severity dice for area 143 Weather_Mediterranean_HIS : 44
(Reporting) Weather severity dice for area 147 Weather_Mediterranean_MED : 31
(Reporting) Weather severity dice for area 158 Weather_Mediterranean_ORI : 53
(Reporting) Weather severity dice for area 145 Weather_Mountaineous_GAL : 8
(Reporting) Weather severity dice for area 160 Weather_Mountaineous_ORI : 46
(Reporting) Weather severity dice for area 156 Weather_Temperate_BAL : 7
(Reporting) Weather severity dice for area 142 Weather_Temperate_BRI : 19
(Reporting) Weather severity dice for area 165 Weather_Temperate_EST : 82
(Reporting) Weather severity dice for area 152 Weather_Temperate_EUC : 21
(Reporting) Weather severity dice for area 146 Weather_Temperate_GAL : 70
(Reporting) Weather severity dice for area 149 Weather_Temperate_GRM : 53
(Reporting) Weather severity dice for area 144 Weather_Temperate_HIS : 98
(Reporting) Weather severity dice for area 148 Weather_Temperate_MED : 23
(Reporting) Weather severity dice for area 157 Weather_Temperate_ORI : 86
(Reporting) Weather severity dice for area 164 Weather_Northern_Steppes_EST : 70
(Reporting) Weather severity dice for area 161 Weather_Southern_Steppes_ORI : 13
(Reporting) Weather severity dice for area 168 Weather_Northern_Seas_NOR : 70
(Reporting) Weather severity dice for area 169 Weather_Northern_Seas_ATL : 78
(Reporting) Weather severity dice for area 170 Weather_Southern_Seas_WMD : 69
(Reporting) Weather severity dice for area 171 Weather_Southern_Seas_CMD : 30
(Reporting) Weather severity dice for area 172 Weather_Southern_Seas_EMD : 9
(Reporting) Weather severity dice for area 173 Weather_Southern_Seas_PEX : 100
(Reporting) Weather severity dice for area 167 Weather_Tropical : 94
(Reporting) Ending CalcWeatherPatterns

I don't understand how these values translate to the actual sea region, but I do know that some sea regions are ALWAYS more likely to experience storms than others.

This information SHOULD be indicated in the mouse over of a sea region and all players SHOULD be aware of which sea regions are more likely to have bad sea weather. It is silly that a player just needs to play enough games to learn this themselves by experience. Thinking that all sea regions have an equal chance of experiencing bad sea weather is just wrong.

What is also odd is that when you view a replay, the sea weather icons seem to all get "blown" right and end up floating off the map! The replay does not seem to show you what really is happening with the weather.

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Erik Springelkamp
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Fri Nov 29, 2013 3:19 pm

Bullman wrote:I have looked at the HostLOg file as well and I see that the following weather logs are created at the very start and at the very end of the turn.
(snip...)

I don't understand how these values translate to the actual sea region, but I do know that some sea regions are ALWAYS more likely to experience storms than others.

This information SHOULD be indicated in the mouse over of a sea region and all players SHOULD be aware of which sea regions are more likely to have bad sea weather. It is silly that a player just needs to play enough games to learn this themselves by experience. Thinking that all sea regions have an equal chance of experiencing bad sea weather is just wrong.

What is also odd is that when you view a replay, the sea weather icons seem to all get "blown" right and end up floating off the map! The replay does not seem to show you what really is happening with the weather.


The HostFile is cumulative, so I think you see two weather calculations of two different turns.

Still no idea how storms are created, but different sea areas do get a dice role in the CalcWeatherPatterns at the end of each turn.

By the way, somebody created maps with all the storm areas somewhere on this forum,

http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?25747-Are-Storms-too-deadly&p=252765&viewfull=1#post252765

maybe I should copy them over to my documentation location, where I also created a 'Dictator Danger Area' map for the BOR scenario's.

[ATTACH]25842[/ATTACH]
Attachments
DictatorArea.jpg

Bullman
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Sat Nov 30, 2013 1:17 am

OK, based on what is said in this thread, http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?25747-Are-Storms-too-deadly, it seems that sea storms ONLY OCCUR IN SOME SEA REGIONS and not in others.
This is quite important information that is not explained in the game manual.

These storm prone regions should be marked on the map.

Anyway, the information I have learnt since starting this thread had completely changed the way I handle navies in AEJ.

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