Noob-Questions

[Cfant]

I'm playing the Marius vs. Sulla scenario as populares. I'm an absolute AGEOD-noob (played a few turns of BoA2, didn't like it, stopped. So no experience so far). I'm loosing completely Before I'm thrown from the Tarpejic Rock, I want to ask the AGEOD-veterans for help


1. I conquered Rome quickly and ordered my army into the fortress for recovery. Since than, my general is unmoveable (locked) since half a year. How can this be?

2. Whenever I attack my army (which has 2 green points) to attack an enemy army (which has just one green point), I encounter superior numbers in the battle. How the heck can a one-point-army have 30.000 men?

3. What can I do to scout an enemy army? If I have infos about an enemy army - can I trust this infos or may they be wrong?

4. This shows the decisive defeat in the civil war: Marius attacked a "one green point" army of the optimates, loosing two whole legions. The manual can not really help me to unterstand this screen (mostly it explains just the things the tooltip reveals). For info: Marius (def 5) was set to defensive behavior (blue). I'd like to know: Was the defeat obvious or did I have bad luck? And how can I analyse the defeat out of the infos from this screen?



5. Similar question here:



What does the screen tell me about the defeat? What did I wrong?

6. In the same turn of these two defeats, Mithridates landed on Sicily with an huge army. Is this wanted? Shouldn't Ponuts attack the optimates rather than Sullas enemys?

I know, it's a lot of questions. Any help is appreciated Thanks a lot!

[Bohémond]

Point 1 ; You can leave your army outside the city to recovery. For unmoveable general, have youy merge your stack with Permanent fixed unit (Militia) the one with the lock Icon.

Point 4 and 5 ; Yous should have a llok into your detailled combat report ( Upper Right Button).

Point 6 ; Populares are at war wiht Pontus. Dpending on what Optimates do in Asia Minor. AI can decide to land on your regions. But I agree must be somewhat balanced.

For other points, take a look at the manual.

Do not hesitate to ask again, Ageod veterans can answer almost any questions.

Regards

[yellow ribbon]

for question ONE:

is it only the general or the whole stack

- you have maybe the supply depot in your stack, it cannot move, thus the stack. same can happen if there are city guards
- if not, and he wasnt wounded, you might have right-clicked and locked him by accident

**************

for better understanding of some part of the game calculation who lost and who win, please start here

http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?25798-Is-a-victory-a-victory-in-battle-or

and the two mentioned links, if you want to go into more details

**************

for scouting, tooltips are not reliable, they show units in the stack. bzt you dont know their combat power, status.

if tooltip, i.e. after a battle or for you have many units with good land detection values, shows numbers, you can trust them. but before battle happens (after a long march to him), the enemy might recover cohesion and be much more powerful.

[Cfant]

Thanks a lot. Your answers have helped

[Erik Springelkamp]

Regarding the enemy stack with just one dot: it may be two stacks, one large one with many dots, and one small one with one dot, but the latter is shown, with just the single dot. You should inspect the mouse-over data of the force.

I would prefer if the dots on an enemy stack would show the combined strength of all enemy forces in the area. The current system is often deceptive.

[Pat "Stonewall" Cleburne]

Don't rely on the green dots. Green just means they are in decent shape. 1 dot can mean just a few legions, which will crush whole slews of barbarians or auxilia. Count the power up yourself if you have the intel. Even then, legions are king in this game.

[Cfant]

Thanks for your help. Time for a new try

[Cfant]

Gave it a new try and made many things better – but have BIG problems with larger battles. My losses are ridiculous. For example:

I have a leader, my troops are fortified, even a „mighty“ legion is here – and I get my ass kicked. I have fortify-bonus, so the enemy can’t have defens-boni. What the hell happened here? (It’s not a single event, nearly all battles have such results, even if the enemy has no leader).
An other problem I had with Marius:

That I loose I accept, but of course I orederd Marius to pull back. He didn’t, turn after turn he fought until the army was dead (and he too). On the other hand the KI ALWAYS escapes if it looses (what don’t happen too much, I fear ) Has the KI some advantages?
By the way: Marius advanced, after the KI didn’t react half a year. In the turn I advanced, the KI decided to march there too. Bad luck?
Pontus again landed in Sicily, wihle Sulla was sacking Pontus‘ cities. I don’t think that very realistic.
Last question: Here the text says: „Our soldiers in captivity“. But where can I see the soldiers I have captured?
[/QUOTE]
Thanks a lot,

Cfant, worst commander in Roman history

[Hohenlohe]

The captives from the enemy appears as numbers under "Gefangene Gegner..."left side divided in separate columns from each enemy. On the right side are your own losses pictured...Hope this is helpful to you.

greetings

Hohenlohe

[Pat "Stonewall" Cleburne]

The first battle, you were in passive posture. That's a no-no for combat unless you're just trying to get away. The 2nd battle could have turned on a number of things. If those are his veteran legions against new legions. What your cohesion was. Did you order an all out attack? Also, combat is just a bit more unpredictable in this game and in ancient times in general I think.

[Cfant]

What is the problem with passive posture? It's the only way to get boni from the landscape, isn't it? Wouldn't it be always best to use it, if possible?

And the problem is: It always goes this way. If I loose, my army gets smashed. It seldom retreats, mostly it is attacked again and again, until it's dead. The KI ALWAYS retrats. A 15.000 men army of Pontus took 14 (!) successful battles to be destroyed (in Sicily, where it never went far around). The enemy numidian leader and his army are still alive - after beeing beaten 9-10 times.

As soon as I have euqal numbers to the enemy in a battle, in case of defeat 1/2 - 2/3 of my army are dead. It's on the brink to be demotivating

[yellow ribbon]

What is the problem with passive posture? It's the only way to get boni from the landscape, isn't it? Wouldn't it be always best to use it, if possible?

yes and no, a good position if you dont have superior numbers and dont know what you are up to, then the terrain gives you bonus. but remember this is not about ranged units with fire weapons, but cold steel.
the most bonus you could expect is protection against bowmen etc, not disrupting your cohesion.

as Romans vs. Barbarians, blue-red, red-red are most pratical for experienced players (means if you know how to keep money reserved and replacement in game whatever happens.

*************************

Libisosa,

the marks indicate both faction were with some units in green or blue order, retreating, breaking combat before more barbarians were killed. they even took POW from you.
if you would have more trained legions, the battle would be lost, with the high loss on moral at least. here you couldnt kill more barbarians, thus its a draw

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for Ancona, did you attack the city?

the socii units (orange) are not as good as normal Romans legions. You ran into fortified troops, partially in a city, with lack of real combat troops AND had bad dice rolls

******************

trust me, if you learn how the difference in trops quality come together and play the faction which have more real legions, then you will find that the AI-always retreating is gone.
Once the games mechanism of balance are clear, you will use frequently RED-RED orders and attack with four good roman legions or more, use the rest to lay sieges, to block the enemy (once you block him, use blue-red to have as few losses as possible and use all advantages you can get), to kill AUX...

[Spharv2]

What is the problem with passive posture? It's the only way to get boni from the landscape, isn't it? Wouldn't it be always best to use it, if possible?

And the problem is: It always goes this way. If I loose, my army gets smashed. It seldom retreats, mostly it is attacked again and again, until it's dead. The KI ALWAYS retrats. A 15.000 men army of Pontus took 14 (!) successful battles to be destroyed (in Sicily, where it never went far around). The enemy numidian leader and his army are still alive - after beeing beaten 9-10 times.

As soon as I have euqal numbers to the enemy in a battle, in case of defeat 1/2 - 2/3 of my army are dead. It's on the brink to be demotivating

Oh nooo...Passive should only be used in maybe two situations. One, if you're trying to move a small force through somewhat hostile territory, and if you're falling back in the face of a massive enemy, and you don't want to fight at all. Passive means you start trying to retreat immediately. You don't want to be in the fight, so you're trying to get out. When do armies take the most casualties? When they retreat. So Passive is only good if you're pretty sure you can slip away from the enemy before he catches you meaning he's bigger and slower than you.

Similarly, the top aggression (Assault) can be just as harmful. If things start going against you with that posture, it doesn't matter because you're not retreating. Your general will continue throwing troops into a lost cause and probably losing them. The assault posture should generally only be used when you're going up against a single unit with an army or trying to smash a much smaller force you can't possibly lose to. On defense you can hold at all costs more often. Since you're defending, it's not as risky, but again, if the battle goes against you, you will lose most (Or all) of your force.

For the most part, you should keep your forces on the middle two postures, depending on how confident you are in the outcome. If you're not sure on numbers and have time to attack over multiple turns, use the cautious attack to feel them out and see what they've got. If you know or are sure enough in the outcome, use the aggressive attack. It still leaves you the option of retreating if it gets hairy, but if things go well, should provide enough push to win handily.

[yellow ribbon]

for the prisoners of war, as Hohenlohe said, the whole left part in the middle of the screen is the POW section. the icons can at the moment be compared with the lower section and you know where they came from.

the number will

a.) get smaller while they are dying/released
b.) get smaller if you sell them, make troops out of them
c.) will increase as more decisive the battle is, like destroying larger, but weak units with red-red orders

i think improving the tooltip was added to the list, but has low priority, for the preorder version was more improtant

[Searry]

You might play too agressively. The commie troops aren't that great. So avoiding engagements while controlling Rome could be a sounds tactic in Italy. Dot Italy with castrums and the AI will probably have to spread it's forces everywhere to conquer these. They're really annoying because they sometimes stop movement and can waste a whole month for an army.

[Gatling]

Hallo Cfant,

Zu den Gefangenen: Hier ist Deutches Text etwas verwirrend: Die zahlen stehen nicht für deine Soldaten, die von den anderen Fraktionen gefangen wurden, sondern von den Soldaten von anderen Fraktionen, die du gefangen hast.
Text in Englisch ist: "Prisoners taken from the enemy, per nationality or ethnic group."
Die Übersetzung muss korregiert werden.

Gruss
Gatling

Edit pour les développeurs: La question de Cfant concernant les prisonniers vient de la traduction en allemand qui dit en substance "Nos soldats en captivité" au lieu de "les prisonniers que nous détenons". Une petite correction du LocalString_AGE à faire pour le prochain patch. Gatling

[Agesilaus]

Does anyone have a good explanation for why massive Pontic armies regularly lose to much smaller Roman legions? I'm talking, 30-40k Pontic stacks tackling 5-15k Roman stacks. Is there some issue with Frontage where my army can't deploy properly, or what is the main reason for Pontics losing so often? I want to poke the Romans full of holes, not be chased back into Asia.

[Pocus]

frontage is a super important factor indeed. If a force has 2 legions or less, engage them in plain (as you can deploy more against them). If they have 3+ legions, only stay in defensive in a constrained terrain and wear them down.

[PhilThib]

Does anyone have a good explanation for why massive Pontic armies regularly lose to much smaller Roman legions? I'm talking, 30-40k Pontic stacks tackling 5-15k Roman stacks. Is there some issue with Frontage where my army can't deploy properly, or what is the main reason for Pontics losing so often? I want to poke the Romans full of holes, not be chased back into Asia.

Frontage is important but not the sole factor. What is critical is the cohesion level of your forces. Pontus has large armies, but their average cohesion is very low, so they can't put up a long fight against legions, especially experienced ones. If you add to this the impact of commander's value and terrain benefits, it may explain a lot of the results.

Historically, Pontics armies were more or less a vast mob of various types of troops, from the excellent to the abysmal...they lacked cohesion and unity of the Roman legion, and the game's reflects this.

You can provide us saves if you feel something is weird. I played Pontus many times during the Beta phase and "enjoyed" the regular trashing at the hands of the Romans...the only time I was succesful was when I put my best units together, with my best leader, and made sure they were at top cohesion...and then I tried to catch Romans moving (e.g. by standing in their way in good defensive terrain, like behind a river)...

Another good trick to defeat Romans is, when possible, to trap them inside the city and siege it (never assault, you'll get trounced). Also, Naval war is a source of constant pleasure for Pontus, as here we have a slight numerical edge (I usually build up my navy as soon as possible)...preventing the Romans to reach the Asia Minor or Greek shores is decisive... Remember, you win by holding on your assets and capturing a few key locations, not by painting the Ancient world in pink here...

[Narwhal]

What is the problem with passive posture? It's the only way to get boni from the landscape, isn't it? Wouldn't it be always best to use it, if possible?

And the problem is: It always goes this way. If I loose, my army gets smashed. It seldom retreats, mostly it is attacked again and again, until it's dead. The KI ALWAYS retrats. A 15.000 men army of Pontus took 14 (!) successful battles to be destroyed (in Sicily, where it never went far around). The enemy numidian leader and his army are still alive - after beeing beaten 9-10 times.

As soon as I have euqal numbers to the enemy in a battle, in case of defeat 1/2 - 2/3 of my army are dead. It's on the brink to be demotivating

The problem is that you mix "passive posture" (green), which makes your amry avoid combat and retreat at the very first round, with "defensive posture", where your army will not seek combat but will fight if the opponent does.

[Cfant]

Thanks a lot for all the help! Some things seem to become more clear... I think, I might have a very considerable mistake in my understanding: Terrain. As far as I understood the manual, the ONLY way to profit from terrain is to take passive posture (no matter what second posture). So blue/red, blue/orange, blue/blue, blue/green means "terrain helps", every other posture means "terrain doesn't help". Is that correct or the way to the grave?

[yellow ribbon]

yes, the blue first order is to use the ground for your advantage. also the battle happens only if the enemy is in orange or red order

for the second status of order you might end up in completely different effects.

[color="#FFFF00"]blue-green[/color], the troops will retreat from battle very soon and most possibly get pursued and destroyed to some degree

[color="#FFFF00"]blue-red[/color], you have advantages but will make the stand at all costs and hold the favored ground. you could use it to wear down the enemy if you have other troops and a lot of money for replacements

[color="#FFFF00"]blue-blue[/color] means however, that your troops try to break up combat after, i think its three rounds. possibility to get pursued and destroyed and few time that gives you a bonus at all.
i recommend it mainly for weak Roman stacks, not for barbarians

remember that the kind of differentiation comes from games in the gunpowder time. when not staying around meant less harm from larger range weapons and less effect from assault afterwards.
in AIE few non Roman units effect the cohesion in the fire phase and the Romans have normally the upper hand in close combat assaults. even if only one round before you retreat

[Cfant]

Ok, than that's clear so far. But to be absolute sure: Is this the same as the combat effects (listed in appendix A)? E.g.: If I attack (orange/orange) an enemy in the mountains, the effect: "severe penalty for the attacker" only takes place, if the defender has a blue posture? Or are these two different aspects?

[pantsukki]

Is there any way of checking the full weight of the whole army?

[cwegsche]

Is there any way of checking the full weight of the whole army?

It's displayed in the tooltip!

[Narwhal]

Ok, than that's clear so far. But to be absolute sure: Is this the same as the combat effects (listed in appendix A)? E.g.: If I attack (orange/orange) an enemy in the mountains, the effect: "severe penalty for the attacker" only takes place, if the defender has a blue posture? Or are these two different aspects?

Cfant, I will make a beginner's posture on combat today or tomorrow and I will try to explain that. Terrain impacts ALL battles, whatever the posture is, but on difficult terrain the defender got bonuses while the attacker got maluses.

[Cfant]

@Narwhal: That would be most appreciated Just reading your PbEM-AAR and learning from it. Thanks a lot!

[Ben]

Some more Noob questions:

When winning battles I get messages in the ledger concerning how many weapons my side captured. Do these play a role in the game?

When I send a fleet into a commerce box occupied by enemy trade ships there doesn't seem to be any battle. Do I cause damage to these ships just by being there or do I need to send specific raider ships to do so?

More will probably follow.

[caranorn]

Some more Noob questions:

When winning battles I get messages in the ledger concerning how many weapons my side captured. Do these play a role in the game?

When I send a fleet into a commerce box occupied by enemy trade ships there doesn't seem to be any battle. Do I cause damage to these ships just by being there or do I need to send specific raider ships to do so?

More will probably follow.

1) Weapons captured gives you money (1 denari per 1000 weapons notified)...

2) If this is anything like other Ageod games naval combat in trading boxes is abstracted, that is no regular battle takes place and instead both side's forces can suffer some additional attrition...

[Cfant]

New try. Thanks to all your help, the best so far 1,5 years at war and still standing Now I'd like to ask about winter-attrition: I sent Marius with his full legions in Winter on a 5-provinces-march (not clever, but I tried to surprise the enemy). In this month, Marius died, this coward! My troops arrived nearly wiped out. In other regions, where commanders were in place, it didn't matter that much.
On the other hand: the KI sieges cities all winter long, still beeing green and full of joy of life
Now the questions:

Does the KI have attrition-advantages?
Can it be, that winter wipes out whole armys in one month?
How can I know, how much my marching-command will cost my troops?

one more thing: of course I ordered the troops back (5 days march) to a big city. They simply stayed where they were a further month. They had no commander (Marius dead). So they were moveable - but still ignored my command. What can be the reason? I thought, only commanders may refuse a command?

I guess I lost the war because of this one terrible month

@Ben: As I, beeing a noob, see it: At least in Marius vs. Sulla the merchant fleet offers so little wages, I simply don't care. Or am I wrong - again?