I was suprised that storms are so deadly in the game. Obviously ships will be sunk but surely other outcomes are possible - like [color="#FFFF00"]DELAY[/color] while a fleet takes refuge from a storm in a nearby port or sheltered coastal region - or the fleet being [color="#FFFF00"]SCATTERED[/color] no longer a single cohesive force with most of the ship & land elements turning up later in the replacement pool as individual ships find their way back.
(By the way I've just lost a huge fleet, two legions + aux to a storm in july off the coast of greece - I am very angry with Neptune!)
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yellow ribbon
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JamesL wrote:I was suprised that storms are so deadly in the game. Obviously ships will be sunk but surely other outcomes are possible - like [color="#FFFF00"]DELAY[/color] while a fleet takes refuge from a storm in a nearby port or sheltered coastal region - or the fleet being [color="#FFFF00"]SCATTERED[/color] no longer a single cohesive force with the most of the ship & land elements turning up later in the replacement pool as individual ships find their way back.
(By the way I've just lost a huge fleet, two legions + aux to a storm in july off the coast of greece - I am very angry with Neptune!)
has been discussed long between testers either.
i cannot say more than that you will soon learn where the storm fields are. then you can use the ctrl key to navigate from province to province around them. has been practiced a lot from me, and i am able to avoid them on cost of time by a rate of 95%
and i had the same shock experience like you, lost even larger troops. i feel its too early to give such detailed strategical tips, otherwise i would tell you right here.
for me, i just put the lever to another point, ships transport capacity is too high and warship fleets should only be used in battle, not for long distance adventures.
for the game, well ,remember the Romans learned sea warfare the hard way in earlier time, having all this sunk ships without storms. Who knows what the devs are about to...
...not paid by AGEOD.
however, prone to throw them into disarray.
PS:
‘Everything is very simple in War, but the simplest thing is difficult. These difficulties accumulate and produce a friction which no man can imagine exactly who has not seen War . . . in War, through the influence of an infinity of petty circumstances, which cannot properly be described on paper, things disappoint us, and we fall short of the mark.‘
Clausewitz
however, prone to throw them into disarray.
PS:
‘Everything is very simple in War, but the simplest thing is difficult. These difficulties accumulate and produce a friction which no man can imagine exactly who has not seen War . . . in War, through the influence of an infinity of petty circumstances, which cannot properly be described on paper, things disappoint us, and we fall short of the mark.‘
Clausewitz
.
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Ebbingford
- Posts: 6162
- Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2007 5:22 pm
- Location: England
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yellow ribbon
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- Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2011 5:42 pm
Hobbes wrote:So it seems that the weather forecast may be more accurate than those we have today? If they have occured (with bolt) I assume that also means they are likely to occur in the following turn as well?
Thanks,
Chris
help me out, but are you both making it more complicate than it actually is?
Winterstorm
TurnProba = 75
TurnIndexes = 11|0|1|2
RegionProba = 35
heaviest impact!
Spring/Fall
TurnProba = 50
TurnIndexes = 3|4|5|9|10
RegionProba = 35
more frequent check/appearance!
Summerstorm
TurnProba = 10
TurnIndexes = 6|7|8
RegionProba = 35
the only one which have additional weather dependency!
You have nearly always storms in the predefined regions, the question is only, are they shown for the last turn (the moment you make your turns) or are they created while turn processing happens. you can even run into a storm of last months and then into the new months storm
regions and frequency is nearly always ensured,[color="#FF0000"] due to the many months the check happens[/color]
*************************
the potential forecast is based on waves/seadanger, isnt it. level 0 to level 2, while level two has waves and cloud. Storm is only "one" icon
...not paid by AGEOD.
however, prone to throw them into disarray.
PS:
‘Everything is very simple in War, but the simplest thing is difficult. These difficulties accumulate and produce a friction which no man can imagine exactly who has not seen War . . . in War, through the influence of an infinity of petty circumstances, which cannot properly be described on paper, things disappoint us, and we fall short of the mark.‘
Clausewitz
however, prone to throw them into disarray.
PS:
‘Everything is very simple in War, but the simplest thing is difficult. These difficulties accumulate and produce a friction which no man can imagine exactly who has not seen War . . . in War, through the influence of an infinity of petty circumstances, which cannot properly be described on paper, things disappoint us, and we fall short of the mark.‘
Clausewitz
So is the manual incorrect when it states that the storms with the lightening bolt represent severe winter storms with a greater chance of higher losses than the symbol without the lightening bolt? (Table H2, page 92)
Just wondering, from what I have seen so far it seems to work as advertised and sailing into bad weather is probably a colossally bad idea.
Given the number of wiped-out fleets in the historical record, my take is that they got this attrition pretty accurate overall.
Just wondering, from what I have seen so far it seems to work as advertised and sailing into bad weather is probably a colossally bad idea.
Given the number of wiped-out fleets in the historical record, my take is that they got this attrition pretty accurate overall.
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yellow ribbon
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Random wrote:So is the manual incorrect when it states that the storms with the lightening bolt represent severe winter storms with a greater chance of higher losses than the symbol without the lightening bolt? (Table H2, page 92)
Just wondering, from what I have seen so far it seems to work as advertised and sailing into bad weather is probably a colossally bad idea.
Given the number of wiped-out fleets in the historical record, my take is that they got this attrition pretty accurate overall.
no, the manual is right, but it doesnt matter anything! the cloud and the lightning bolt are only the highest degree of seadanger (originally expressed by waves only), but no weather information
look for the map aleas, the winter storms give hits worth 60 points, the summer ones 50, decisive is the probability
a.) how often they appear (as written above) and WHERE they appear.
b.) that the "where" is fixed, you can easily identify the storm fields and the single spots. then how often you are caught is the tricky one, the new storms are generated (if still working that way) at the beginning of the turn processing.
now it doesnt matter anything if its a winterstorm or not, they will not happen in the same turn, but eventually remain. you can leave the harbor with a bad storm, cross a formerly normal seazone and run into a new created storm. or even bypass one storm and run into the new one
i.e. Greece-Sicily, Sicily-Africa, Sicily-Spain (over the northern coast)...
yes, its pretty accurate and the design decision was explained to us, for they need it even more for potential sequels
...not paid by AGEOD.
however, prone to throw them into disarray.
PS:
‘Everything is very simple in War, but the simplest thing is difficult. These difficulties accumulate and produce a friction which no man can imagine exactly who has not seen War . . . in War, through the influence of an infinity of petty circumstances, which cannot properly be described on paper, things disappoint us, and we fall short of the mark.‘
Clausewitz
however, prone to throw them into disarray.
PS:
‘Everything is very simple in War, but the simplest thing is difficult. These difficulties accumulate and produce a friction which no man can imagine exactly who has not seen War . . . in War, through the influence of an infinity of petty circumstances, which cannot properly be described on paper, things disappoint us, and we fall short of the mark.‘
Clausewitz
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yellow ribbon
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- Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2011 5:42 pm
Hobbes wrote:I'm just trying to understand what the storm clouds are telling me and there seems to be confusion about that. I'm hoping they are not predictive as that would make little sense - apart from knowing the season a roman general should not have a meteorological forecast for regions far away.
as said, there is no nominal forecast. You know its better to travel by good weather, you know the main areas where the storms appear nearly always. what you dont know is if it hits you. in a certain region/province. as described, the clouds are the PAST storms, the new ones are created while turn processing and give you a real headache if you run into them the first scenarios one plays.
as nearly no one complains, people seem to get it, that at least one learns pretty fast WHERE the storm fields are and uses the landway as often as possible...
...not paid by AGEOD.
however, prone to throw them into disarray.
PS:
‘Everything is very simple in War, but the simplest thing is difficult. These difficulties accumulate and produce a friction which no man can imagine exactly who has not seen War . . . in War, through the influence of an infinity of petty circumstances, which cannot properly be described on paper, things disappoint us, and we fall short of the mark.‘
Clausewitz
however, prone to throw them into disarray.
PS:
‘Everything is very simple in War, but the simplest thing is difficult. These difficulties accumulate and produce a friction which no man can imagine exactly who has not seen War . . . in War, through the influence of an infinity of petty circumstances, which cannot properly be described on paper, things disappoint us, and we fall short of the mark.‘
Clausewitz
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Ebbingford
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- Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2007 5:22 pm
- Location: England
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yellow ribbon
- Posts: 2245
- Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2011 5:42 pm
yes sure, problem is:
a.) lost cohesion already before the storm and take additional hits, thereby the fleet is destroyed, as a army without cohesion takes additional losses on land either, if it keeps up movement
b.) can run into different storms and also into different storm fields
now imagine you are a Cyprus, move automatically to the next "free area" and before the next harbor is also a stormfield, same is in the middle of the med sea, in the black sea, at the coast of east Spain, or Crete, where the harbors can only be entered from one side.
additionally the harbor may force you into an area where the storms always remain, the three summer months would be the only moments you can leave the harbor or everything just starts over
if this happens, the restrictiveness to the summer, the purpose is fulfilled. sea movement is narrowed down to either risky but fast or without much risk at all
what brings it back, there are many regions completely without storms at all, the short construction time of Nav. or. means you COULD have always move without storms. especially since units can now be disband.
so everything where the movement is shorter than 90 days is asking you to move on shores, everything else asks you to use free harbors/sealanes
bring your troops to a free harbor, construct two Nav. Or. and recover the cohesion with the land troops the second turn. hope that no rounding happens and you can move the third turn without storm.
a.) lost cohesion already before the storm and take additional hits, thereby the fleet is destroyed, as a army without cohesion takes additional losses on land either, if it keeps up movement
b.) can run into different storms and also into different storm fields
now imagine you are a Cyprus, move automatically to the next "free area" and before the next harbor is also a stormfield, same is in the middle of the med sea, in the black sea, at the coast of east Spain, or Crete, where the harbors can only be entered from one side.
additionally the harbor may force you into an area where the storms always remain, the three summer months would be the only moments you can leave the harbor or everything just starts over
if this happens, the restrictiveness to the summer, the purpose is fulfilled. sea movement is narrowed down to either risky but fast or without much risk at all
what brings it back, there are many regions completely without storms at all, the short construction time of Nav. or. means you COULD have always move without storms. especially since units can now be disband.
so everything where the movement is shorter than 90 days is asking you to move on shores, everything else asks you to use free harbors/sealanes
bring your troops to a free harbor, construct two Nav. Or. and recover the cohesion with the land troops the second turn. hope that no rounding happens and you can move the third turn without storm.
...not paid by AGEOD.
however, prone to throw them into disarray.
PS:
‘Everything is very simple in War, but the simplest thing is difficult. These difficulties accumulate and produce a friction which no man can imagine exactly who has not seen War . . . in War, through the influence of an infinity of petty circumstances, which cannot properly be described on paper, things disappoint us, and we fall short of the mark.‘
Clausewitz
however, prone to throw them into disarray.
PS:
‘Everything is very simple in War, but the simplest thing is difficult. These difficulties accumulate and produce a friction which no man can imagine exactly who has not seen War . . . in War, through the influence of an infinity of petty circumstances, which cannot properly be described on paper, things disappoint us, and we fall short of the mark.‘
Clausewitz
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Highlandcharge
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yellow ribbon
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- Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2011 5:42 pm
would be necessary to mark them manually, the first storm danger is only the blue waves on the map. not much to see on the map...
...not paid by AGEOD.
however, prone to throw them into disarray.
PS:
‘Everything is very simple in War, but the simplest thing is difficult. These difficulties accumulate and produce a friction which no man can imagine exactly who has not seen War . . . in War, through the influence of an infinity of petty circumstances, which cannot properly be described on paper, things disappoint us, and we fall short of the mark.‘
Clausewitz
however, prone to throw them into disarray.
PS:
‘Everything is very simple in War, but the simplest thing is difficult. These difficulties accumulate and produce a friction which no man can imagine exactly who has not seen War . . . in War, through the influence of an infinity of petty circumstances, which cannot properly be described on paper, things disappoint us, and we fall short of the mark.‘
Clausewitz
You know, when this game came out i was al prepared to say that there were too few storms, as most games of this period have shown.
This game, however, goes way beyond any historical storms. I did some testing moving a fleet in Panormus to Ostia in June multiple times and was hit by storms every time.
These were all separate games not the same game. You do know the grain fleet sailed from Alexandria to Ostia every year and did not sink right?
Mike
This game, however, goes way beyond any historical storms. I did some testing moving a fleet in Panormus to Ostia in June multiple times and was hit by storms every time.
These were all separate games not the same game. You do know the grain fleet sailed from Alexandria to Ostia every year and did not sink right?
Mike
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yellow ribbon
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- Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2011 5:42 pm
hm...
- there isnt any major stormfield between east of Arsinoe and west of Crete,
- the southern Italian harbors are free, as well as the street of Messina (unlike Sicily which has only two always-free harbors, or east-south-east Italy/Greece)
- Egypt is free
setting a manual L-shaped course you should have no single problem
[color="#FF0000"]EDIT:
added the preliminary screen shots of storm fields to the strategical maps thread.[/color]
http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?25306-AJE-Strategic-Maps
- there isnt any major stormfield between east of Arsinoe and west of Crete,
- the southern Italian harbors are free, as well as the street of Messina (unlike Sicily which has only two always-free harbors, or east-south-east Italy/Greece)
- Egypt is free
setting a manual L-shaped course you should have no single problem
[color="#FF0000"]EDIT:
added the preliminary screen shots of storm fields to the strategical maps thread.[/color]
http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?25306-AJE-Strategic-Maps
...not paid by AGEOD.
however, prone to throw them into disarray.
PS:
‘Everything is very simple in War, but the simplest thing is difficult. These difficulties accumulate and produce a friction which no man can imagine exactly who has not seen War . . . in War, through the influence of an infinity of petty circumstances, which cannot properly be described on paper, things disappoint us, and we fall short of the mark.‘
Clausewitz
however, prone to throw them into disarray.
PS:
‘Everything is very simple in War, but the simplest thing is difficult. These difficulties accumulate and produce a friction which no man can imagine exactly who has not seen War . . . in War, through the influence of an infinity of petty circumstances, which cannot properly be described on paper, things disappoint us, and we fall short of the mark.‘
Clausewitz
lycortas2 wrote:You know, when this game came out i was al prepared to say that there were too few storms, as most games of this period have shown.
This game, however, goes way beyond any historical storms. I did some testing moving a fleet in Panormus to Ostia in June multiple times and was hit by storms every time.
These were all separate games not the same game. You do know the grain fleet sailed from Alexandria to Ostia every year and did not sink right?
Mike
So it seems that storm fields are not predictive, they just show where storms happened in the previous turn and where they are always likely to happen. If you see a lot of storms on the map there is no reason to believe there might be more in the following turn apart from the fact that the regions that show them are regions likely to get storms? (seems a bit odd that these regions can get storms yet other regions never do). Losing a huge fleet like this can make a scenario end suddenly - something that may be historically accurate but as a player playing a game very annoying - especially if it is overdone as lycortas2 alludes to. The realistic attrition option put into AGEOD games was a nod to the fact that playing with realistic attrition may make the game less enjoyable to many players. I wonder if the same is true here. Sudden death of a large force by sinking may be realistic but it isn't much fun for players after investing a lot of time into a game. An option might be better. If there is any doubt about the dangers of seafaring during this period I would rather see it played down rather than up from a gameplay perspective. Cohesion loss etc - but an option would be good.
Cheers,
Chris
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yellow ribbon
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in other games, like PON the ships were unable to reach seazones offshore. (bluewaterfleet vs brownwaterfleet)
in AIE you have few such restrictions and troops loaded are able to fight ships by boarding.
compare it maybe to Sid M.s civilization, not more than 3 fields away from shores. if you follow the maps, you figure one north-south route without storm, alternatively the route over Greece, Rhodus, shore, Egypt.
Automated pathfinding crashes ou in the zone close to Crete and close to Greeks second region in the sea
westwards, Sicily is the cornerstone to Africa and over the southcoast to Spain, otherwise north of Corsica (remember Phils relatives on the isle, maybe), Mallorca, Spain
only deep-water operations and the try of Spain-Asia minor is fatal, representing the importance of roads maybe and the need for slowing things down.
problem, either making the manual pathsetting more common, or altering the size of stormfields to smaller, but more frequent then
but as the already have the dimenson of one filed, sometimes a bundle but only two fields deep, this is not very handy. same happens again, you might have them on row, but dont see them up to now
in AIE you have few such restrictions and troops loaded are able to fight ships by boarding.
compare it maybe to Sid M.s civilization, not more than 3 fields away from shores. if you follow the maps, you figure one north-south route without storm, alternatively the route over Greece, Rhodus, shore, Egypt.
Automated pathfinding crashes ou in the zone close to Crete and close to Greeks second region in the sea
westwards, Sicily is the cornerstone to Africa and over the southcoast to Spain, otherwise north of Corsica (remember Phils relatives on the isle, maybe), Mallorca, Spain
only deep-water operations and the try of Spain-Asia minor is fatal, representing the importance of roads maybe and the need for slowing things down.
problem, either making the manual pathsetting more common, or altering the size of stormfields to smaller, but more frequent then
but as the already have the dimenson of one filed, sometimes a bundle but only two fields deep, this is not very handy. same happens again, you might have them on row, but dont see them up to now
...not paid by AGEOD.
however, prone to throw them into disarray.
PS:
‘Everything is very simple in War, but the simplest thing is difficult. These difficulties accumulate and produce a friction which no man can imagine exactly who has not seen War . . . in War, through the influence of an infinity of petty circumstances, which cannot properly be described on paper, things disappoint us, and we fall short of the mark.‘
Clausewitz
however, prone to throw them into disarray.
PS:
‘Everything is very simple in War, but the simplest thing is difficult. These difficulties accumulate and produce a friction which no man can imagine exactly who has not seen War . . . in War, through the influence of an infinity of petty circumstances, which cannot properly be described on paper, things disappoint us, and we fall short of the mark.‘
Clausewitz
For me maybe the most annoying thing about the storms is that your fleet commanders will stubbornly sail straight into storms. Sometimes into two different storms in different areas, practically guaranteeing their annihilation. Could we have a tickable option "navigare necesse est vivere non est necesse", meaning that your fleet must try to reach the destination no matter the weather conditions? And if you don't tick it, then they'll do their best to avoid storms, meaning that the whole movement might get cancelled because of storms.
pantsukki wrote:For me maybe the most annoying thing about the storms is that your fleet commanders will stubbornly sail straight into storms. Sometimes into two different storms in different areas, practically guaranteeing their annihilation. Could we have a tickable option "navigare necesse est vivere non est necesse", meaning that your fleet must try to reach the destination no matter the weather conditions? And if you don't tick it, then they'll do their best to avoid storms, meaning that the whole movement might get cancelled because of storms.
I couldn't agree more! [color="#FFFF00"]DELAY[/color] would probally be the most realistic outcome. These ancient sailors were not stupid - i'm sure they could recognise the signs of approaching storms! Most of the journeys are in coastal regions so they could wait out a storm in a sheltered place.
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yellow ribbon
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scratching my head.... its in vain to tell you that you can actually travel without even getting into a storm and land troops without even a free harbor...
PS:
letting the influence of gods aside, most Greek, Roman and even Ibero-celtic legends and mystic have a good part of storms and being driven off in them, as well as many legends of the foundation of cities back from that time
like Aeneid with supposed traveling http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Aeneae_exsilia.png
where in game nearly all but the west of Greece is free of storms. yes. i know Sicily has two storm fields but all west and west-northwest are free thus access to Africa always given instead, while in Greece the inlands isthmus can be traveled without storms...
[color="#FFFF00"]how that, well, maximum speed of a Trireme was ten knot WHILE RAMMING 12-13km/h[/color]. that means a ship of the republican time is barely faster than legions on a road
Hypothesis of not leaving the harbor is given by players decision, hypothesis to outmaneuver a storm is weak.
so, if you can easily avoid storms if NOT relying on automated pathfinding (or not leaving the harbor until summer), i feel your anger but still scratch my head
***************
i.e. loading capacity has nothing to do with contemporary ships, nor speed, and the cohesion is still that high that one can sustain blockades on harbors. the only thing taking power out of the naval situation is this kind of storms, working as barrier in non-vital but decisive areas (aside of Dyrachium, historically to be explained i think).
even the most starting points of the fleets in the scenarios are ALWAYS free of storms
PS:
letting the influence of gods aside, most Greek, Roman and even Ibero-celtic legends and mystic have a good part of storms and being driven off in them, as well as many legends of the foundation of cities back from that time
like Aeneid with supposed traveling http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Aeneae_exsilia.png
where in game nearly all but the west of Greece is free of storms. yes. i know Sicily has two storm fields but all west and west-northwest are free thus access to Africa always given instead, while in Greece the inlands isthmus can be traveled without storms...
[color="#FFFF00"]how that, well, maximum speed of a Trireme was ten knot WHILE RAMMING 12-13km/h[/color]. that means a ship of the republican time is barely faster than legions on a road
Hypothesis of not leaving the harbor is given by players decision, hypothesis to outmaneuver a storm is weak.
so, if you can easily avoid storms if NOT relying on automated pathfinding (or not leaving the harbor until summer), i feel your anger but still scratch my head
***************
i.e. loading capacity has nothing to do with contemporary ships, nor speed, and the cohesion is still that high that one can sustain blockades on harbors. the only thing taking power out of the naval situation is this kind of storms, working as barrier in non-vital but decisive areas (aside of Dyrachium, historically to be explained i think).
even the most starting points of the fleets in the scenarios are ALWAYS free of storms
...not paid by AGEOD.
however, prone to throw them into disarray.
PS:
‘Everything is very simple in War, but the simplest thing is difficult. These difficulties accumulate and produce a friction which no man can imagine exactly who has not seen War . . . in War, through the influence of an infinity of petty circumstances, which cannot properly be described on paper, things disappoint us, and we fall short of the mark.‘
Clausewitz
however, prone to throw them into disarray.
PS:
‘Everything is very simple in War, but the simplest thing is difficult. These difficulties accumulate and produce a friction which no man can imagine exactly who has not seen War . . . in War, through the influence of an infinity of petty circumstances, which cannot properly be described on paper, things disappoint us, and we fall short of the mark.‘
Clausewitz
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yellow ribbon
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PPS:
Ramming speed was 10 knots, short distance maximum speed 7 knots. ships weight is referred to at least 40-45 metric tons
Ramming speed was 10 knots, short distance maximum speed 7 knots. ships weight is referred to at least 40-45 metric tons
...not paid by AGEOD.
however, prone to throw them into disarray.
PS:
‘Everything is very simple in War, but the simplest thing is difficult. These difficulties accumulate and produce a friction which no man can imagine exactly who has not seen War . . . in War, through the influence of an infinity of petty circumstances, which cannot properly be described on paper, things disappoint us, and we fall short of the mark.‘
Clausewitz
however, prone to throw them into disarray.
PS:
‘Everything is very simple in War, but the simplest thing is difficult. These difficulties accumulate and produce a friction which no man can imagine exactly who has not seen War . . . in War, through the influence of an infinity of petty circumstances, which cannot properly be described on paper, things disappoint us, and we fall short of the mark.‘
Clausewitz
yellow ribbon wrote:its in vain to tell you that you can actually travel without even getting into a storm...
At the moment that's impossible. For example, when your turn starts, the map might show you that every (ok, that probably won't ever happen, but it's just a hypothetical example) region is free of storms. You're thinking "Great, I'm finally able to launch that invasion of Sicily/Africa/Egypt/Crete/Asia Minor/Rhodus/whatever", and order your transport fleet to execute the invasion. Then you finish the turn, and click end turn. When then next turn begins, you'll see in the message log that you were unlucky, and your invasion fleet passed through one or two storms (despite the fact that the route seemed clear), and every ship + every land unit (or close to everything) has been destroyed. Now I get it that during ancient times weather prediction wasn't as developed as during modern times, and sometimes storms might be a bit surprising, but we players should definitely have the option to order our fleets/ships TO TURN AROUND AND HEAD BACK TO THE NEAREST SAFE SPOT/HARBOR THE MINUTE THEY SEE THREATENING CLOUDS IN THE HORIZON.
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yellow ribbon
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no its not!
everyone can do it, on cost of more traveling time if NOT using automatic pathfinding. thats the way its designed, with at least one loophole they left us in each direction.
you find the stormfields added in screenshots. it appears to you as you describe it, but you are simply wrong if being more careful.
even in the deepest winter you can bring troops on the other side of typical stormfields without any loss and from save harbors starting any invasion you want !!!
everyone can do it, on cost of more traveling time if NOT using automatic pathfinding. thats the way its designed, with at least one loophole they left us in each direction.
you find the stormfields added in screenshots. it appears to you as you describe it, but you are simply wrong if being more careful.
even in the deepest winter you can bring troops on the other side of typical stormfields without any loss and from save harbors starting any invasion you want !!!
...not paid by AGEOD.
however, prone to throw them into disarray.
PS:
‘Everything is very simple in War, but the simplest thing is difficult. These difficulties accumulate and produce a friction which no man can imagine exactly who has not seen War . . . in War, through the influence of an infinity of petty circumstances, which cannot properly be described on paper, things disappoint us, and we fall short of the mark.‘
Clausewitz
however, prone to throw them into disarray.
PS:
‘Everything is very simple in War, but the simplest thing is difficult. These difficulties accumulate and produce a friction which no man can imagine exactly who has not seen War . . . in War, through the influence of an infinity of petty circumstances, which cannot properly be described on paper, things disappoint us, and we fall short of the mark.‘
Clausewitz
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