ERISS wrote:So it goes not really against what hBuff3737 proposed:
Before the event giving complete victory to Poland, an event could first ask the Whites if they want to oppose it.
If they let the complete Poland victory (almost: Poland 'gently' let Krimae), then it goes as at now in RusGold.
If they oppose it, then Poland could take a partial victory (not reaching Black sea), to make peace with Reds in order to better be able to manage the White problem and try to have later their complete victory.
But I feel it can't be easily simulated with the game engine.
I maybe wasn't clear, but IMHO, there is NOTHING to ask to the Whites since Poland would NOT have ask them anything. Poland didn't care of the Russian Whites interests. And Imperialist Poland was ready to fight Russian Whites imperialists in Ukraine to make it a Polish puppet state (as they did with their other neighbours in 1919), and Ukrainian Nationalists had also no problem to fight Russian Whites to get their independence from Russian (better Polish rules than Russians for them at those times).
So if Poland sign a Victorious peace treaty with the Reds, Russian Whites are not at the negotiation table, for sure. Reds would have let to Poland/Ukraine territories, even if they don't control some of it because they are occupy by Russian Whites or Ukrainian Anarchists. And Poland and Ukrainian Nationalists would then have send all their forces against any Russian or Anarchists forces in East Ukraine to control their borders, pushing the Russian Whites in Crimea or Don sector.
ERISS wrote: If they oppose it
There is no way that Russian Whites could oppose all the Polish army (and their Ukrainian Nationalists army), free from any Red menace, as well as the big part of the local population which was anyway against them in this regions as Green, Black and Red fans.
history_buff3737 wrote:I think that Denikin would have never accepted an independent Ukraine (plus, he was essentially at war with Petlura), Vrangel was desperate enough to consider it, but it's hard to say what' he'd do if he was in position of strength. Petlura didn't trust him and wasn't too keen on cooperating with him. !
Again, what the Russian Whites want to do here are not the question, the question is what the Poles would have done.
history_buff3737 wrote:Plus, we just cannot be sure if the Allies would cut off support to the victorious Whites
As i said, Poles didn"t care of the Western powers reaction of their imperialism in Ukraine and possible stop of support : they were already equipped by France which would anyway support them more than the Russian Whites because Poland is important for France to keep Germany surrounded and watched.
history_buff3737 wrote:in my game I'd prefer to fight a war with Poland rather than lose Eastern Ukraine
Maybe some stupid Russian whites leader would have fight Poland in priority, but they would have lose anyway and be pushed to Crimea or Don when the Reds would have invade it in their back, with numerous troops coming from the former Polish/Soviet fronts...