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[Athens]

But you always were free, were you not?

Anyway the pleasure you comment and that I understand enters in contradiction with your last comments here and there.

Your frustration, that also fully understand, is causing more anger than sadness now.

You're wrong I've no anger or frustration. If I had I would have relinquished the AGE engine. What I 'm just pointing out is PON is currently in public beta test, RUS beta 1.02b has some important bugs which weren't present before, while fixing older fortunatly. For products sold, this situation isn't really commendable. But I've bought PON twice to sustain the effort... And I mod for myself, not to get a large audience. I'm even surprised some are currently trying to play my versions ( playing a mod being always more difficult than a plain vanilla version because of installation constraint, rules added without being integrated in the manual and so...)

As anger, I've seen much affirmed situation.

Discussion closed on this point for me anyway

[Franciscus]

Athens, , let me just say that your work is appreciated and that your critical comments are many times like a breath of fresh air.

Best regards and best of luck

[Athens]

Athens, , let me just say that your work is appreciated and that your critical comments are many times like a breath of fresh air.

Best regards and best of luck

Thanks.

And don't think I'm just talking about Ageod releases. I've tried in prevision of PON both Victoria I and II. Verdict: Victoria I is a magnified spreadsheet and Victoria II a magnified Powerpoint. Maybe next Victoria will be a magnified Access...

[Nikel]

discussion closed on this point for me anyway

ok

[mjw]

I see that a few think the German ai is suspect....buy how does bolshevik ai do against a human German player?

[Baris]

Well Germans are the stronger side. So by common sense AI should have more difficulties handling numerous German troops. In one of my games I was able to capture Moscow and Don region in the summer with 3-4 army HQ's.
But İt is a very good scenerio.

[TheDoctorKing]

Until now, maybe 10 players have downloaded a version of FY, which is a great success .

I'm proud to be one of the fearless ten!

I realize it is a tough job. Please don't take my comments as rejecting or belittling your work. My conclusion was that you had significantly improved the vanilla especially with your improved AI. I just realize as you also must that there is more to do.

[Athens]

I'm proud to be one of the fearless ten!

I realize it is a tough job. Please don't take my comments as rejecting or belittling your work. My conclusion was that you had significantly improved the vanilla especially with your improved AI. I just realize as you also must that there is more to do.

Thanks.


They should remove my work on AI in the official version. As they change rules without adapting AI events , RUS AI is becoming weaker, and certainly weaker now than the stock AGE AI. That's maybe why they are moving RUS toward a strict three players game by transforming Anarchists, Poles into mere sub factions unplayable by AI. In FY, it's just the contrary, as I 've added one more and removed the errors ( not tied to AI events I wrote) hindering AI to play convincingly these factions. For the rest, the new rules in FY are taken into account by AI mechanisms. It's for sure less easy than writing new events only playable in PBEM . But it's certainly more useful to adapt the engine for Single Player play, the main way computer wargames are played yet today ( and contrary to belief other computer games too, less MMO of course).

Howewer what's a game with only Whites and Reds playable, without all the balanced nuances of Triumph of Chaos rules, or gameplay of the old Simonsen work redone recently by Miranda in S&T?

Such a game is just proving computer wargaming to be inferior in design to boardgame one a simple military confrontation between forces without political or diplomatic depth. The fun in Russian Civil War wargaming is elsewhere.

And introducing only PBEM rules in a 3 factions game being very difficult as most often 1 or 2 factions will be AI driven, the next logical step would be to unify both White factions to transform RUS in two players game.

FY has active Ukrainian, Anarchists, German Freikorps. Poles AI factions, without them, I wouldn't just play RUS but any boardgame on VASSAL.... That's why I'm happy with FY, because I've tailored the game I wanted. So any other player satisfaction is a welcomed encouragement, and not a necessity.

Besides, if the official version improves RUS for most, it's just perfect I will follow my way whatsoever

Some cleansing of the mdl and unit database and pool would be useful too, but I'm waiting for the official patch to do so. And the xls files which help tremendously in these tasks have never been released ( so long for modding advertisement).

[ERISS]

Such a game is just proving computer wargaming to be inferior in design to boardgame one

I think it's just proves AGE engine can't easily be tailored for complex wars.
When designing a game (I mean a political complex one) from nothing is easier than adapt with another-one, we can say AGE is not so adaptative.

, RUS AI is becoming weaker, and certainly weaker now than the stock AGE AI. That's why they are moving RUS toward a strict three players game by transforming Anarchists, Poles into mere sub factions unplayable by AI.
, the next logical step would be to unify both White factions to transform RUS in two players game.
what's a game with only Whites and Reds playable?
a simple military confrontation between forces without political or diplomatic depth. The fun in Russian Civil War wargaming is elsewhere.

Yeah, that's some sad, but I would be ok if it could allow to stand still the game for good (with further patches being only small). Then every modder would be able to work on, without a patch destroying all.
I usually don't play with heavy mods, I would prefer everybody to work on the official game. Maybe you too, but you felt you had to separate.
I downloaded your mod, but never played with (but too I ever nor played for now with vanilia one lol).

FY has active Ukrainian, Anarchists, German Freikorps. Poles AI factions, without them, I wouldn't just play RUS but any boardgame on VASSAL....

Boardgames are not so good about RCW. I think very few are better than RUS, but you're right there should have been none better (if any, I don't know so much about these good boardgames).

[Athens]

I think it's just proves AGE engine can't easily be tailored for complex wars.
When designing a game (I mean a political complex one with want) from nothing is easier than adapt with another-one, we can say AGE is not so adaptative.

When cleaned and cured, AGE 3.0 (PON) will.

[Narwhal]

in a place where I'm free and where I may use freely some design ideas backep up by a real knowledge of the AGE engine, its AI and scripting stuff. That's grateful. Until now, maybe 10 players have downloaded a version of FY, which is a great success . I 'm rather happy to play FY, or the one month turn version of PON and to think about the chance to really be able to tweak the system to get the right results.

WHile I did not download yet, I was planning to as soon as the new patch of RuS (and your adapted FY) is out

[Sean E]

I would say RUS is partially the proof the computer wargaming market to be doomed. Anything outside WW2, ACW, tactical scale, or RTS, is just destined to become a business failure. There are too few customers willing to pay the right price to get computer wargames on more obscure period.

There are other reasons too, but even without, I'm now convinced the market for good computer wargames doesn't exist because of that. What we will have in the future will be clone of Creative Assembly, Paradox and Current Firaxis games, with unhistorical features and, under a false complexity, rather basic game engines. I was jsut reading 2 minutes ago 2 Paradox players sustaining Nationalization of foreign investments should be introduced in PON, with Casus Belli associated. Semi-literates are the most numerous, alas

I think one of the problems with RUS being a commercial success is that it is still a work in progress.
This plus previous saved games being incompatible with new patches would be turning off new customers.
It has certainly stopped me playing RUS for now.
It is playable in its current state but if I’m going to commit a lot of hours to playing the game I would prefer it to be in final form.

[Athens]

I think one of the problems with RUS being a commercial success is that it is still a work in progress.
This plus previous saved games being incompatible with new patches would be turning off new customers.
It has certainly stopped me playing RUS for now.
It is playable in its current state but if I’m going to commit a lot of hours to playing the game I would prefer it to be in final form.

Let's say before I joined the team, no one ever considered the AI wasn't using Requisitions and conscriptions...I won't deny your point, but from the start, RUS didn't sold well.

[Athens]

I think one of the problems with RUS being a commercial success is that it is still a work in progress.
This plus previous saved games being incompatible with new patches would be turning off new customers.
It has certainly stopped me playing RUS for now.
It is playable in its current state but if I’m going to commit a lot of hours to playing the game I would prefer it to be in final form.

And it could have been worse...Done what I could, wasn't sufficient alas. But you're right. Time is over for releasing works in progress.

[Franciscus]

I think one of the problems with RUS being a commercial success is that it is still a work in progress.
This plus previous saved games being incompatible with new patches would be turning off new customers.
It has certainly stopped me playing RUS for now.
It is playable in its current state but if I’m going to commit a lot of hours to playing the game I would prefer it to be in final form.

I agree. But in the case of RUS the main problem, IMHO, is that the team, that got together to make this game, fell apart for whatever reason.
I try to teach my kids to finish everything they start; but apparently grown up men are not capable to forget their differences and finish together what they, presumabily voluntarily and willingly, started together.

[Athens]

I agree. But in the case of RUS the main problem, IMHO, is that the team, that got together to make this game, fell apart for whatever reason.
I try to teach my kids to finish everything they start; but apparently grown up men are not capable to forget their differences and finish together what they, presumabily voluntarily and willingly, started together.

There's a difference: I never have been member of SEPRUS. I don't have any financial interest in. For the rest, the volume of activity of the other devs on this board since my so called split has at least this advantage to keep more time for SEPRUS to patch quickly RUS...

[Athens]

I agree. But in the case of RUS the main problem, IMHO, is that the team, that got together to make this game, fell apart for whatever reason.
I try to teach my kids to finish everything they start; but apparently grown up men are not capable to forget their differences and finish together what they, presumabily voluntarily and willingly, started together.

I'm finishing it, under another form . For the rest, I'm sure SEPRUS will deliver a release equal to the level of its commitment....

[TheDoctorKing]

I think one of the problems with RUS being a commercial success is that it is still a work in progress.
This plus previous saved games being incompatible with new patches would be turning off new customers.
It has certainly stopped me playing RUS for now.
It is playable in its current state but if I’m going to commit a lot of hours to playing the game I would prefer it to be in final form.

Actually, one of the nice things about this game is that it is realistic to play a game in a couple of weeks to a month. That is, and have a life at the same time. It takes me about twenty minutes to play a turn, so an evening play session can be nine or ten turns. At that rate, playing twice a week, I can generally be to a point where the issue is no longer in doubt within a month. So you can play a game under 1.02b, then when 1.03 comes out, finish your game and then patch up without losing too much time.

[Sean E]

Yes I have played some fun games already but on average I only play a new game a few times till it gets old and I move on to the next.

So it would be good to play a game that is closer to finshed state.

At least now I can see the game engine will work fine with Napoleons Campaigns 2!