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lodilefty
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Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:02 pm

BigDuke66 wrote:I now checked the strange retreat too and it seems to be the same problem.
The light cavalry can't move directly from the pass region at Hohenelbe to Koeniggratz instead it has to move over Koeniginhof but the infantry units in Koeniggratz can move directly to Hohenelbe what shouldn't be possible.
Even when the light cavalry is in Koeniggratz it can't move directly to Hohenelbe it has to move again over Koeniginhof.
Here is a save for this:
http://www.mediafire.com/?1cham231f3asakv


These are WAD (pathfinding):
there are Major Roads for the Light Cav to move 2 regions faster than going directly across the river (there is a river crossing penalty, seen as blue line when pressing shift while a stack is selected).

The heavy forces move directly from Hohenelbe, as that is shortest march path (weather is Snow, so pass is still open).
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lodilefty
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Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:04 pm

Spada wrote:More clear in fact. :)
Now I am almost sure mountain passes are not WAD or something is wrong with my game. In this savegame all the passes in the game are blocked (which is usually rare), but is possible to trace a movement path to them except with Frederick stack that cannot trace a path to some mountain passes but it is ok to others.

Edit: Sorry, forget what I said. I tried with different stacks and although it let you plot the moves, the stacks bounce back after the resolution of the turn. So WAD.



Whew! Glad that's resolved, albeit this will be a constant source of distraction and complaint methinks.... :wacko:
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lodilefty
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Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:32 pm

Spada wrote:Game is now using "Conscripts decay" (PON feature), is this supposed to be now used in ROP?

Starting CheckConscriptsOfficersVariation
11:09:17 (Reporting) Prussia - Conscripts production: 0 - Conscripts decay: 25
11:09:17 (Reporting) Prussia - Officers production: 0 - Officers decay: 0
11:09:17 (Reporting) Austria - Conscripts production: 0 - Conscripts decay: 2
11:09:17 (Reporting) Austria - Officers production: 0 - Officers decay: 0
11:09:17 (Reporting) Poland - Conscripts production: 0 - Conscripts decay: 8
11:09:17 (Reporting) Poland - Officers production: 0 - Officers decay: 0
11:09:17 (Reporting) Ending CheckConscriptsOfficersVariation


Happens in AACW also.
Maybe a fix here:
Extratct the attached into ROP\Settings.
New file.
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Spada
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Sat Dec 03, 2011 3:46 pm

lodilefty wrote:Happens in AACW also.
Maybe a fix here:
Extratct the attached into ROP\Settings.
New file.


That fixed it, thanks. :thumbsup:

Starting CheckConscriptsOfficersVariation
15:44:32 (Reporting) Prussia - Conscripts production: 0 - Conscripts decay: 0
15:44:32 (Reporting) Prussia - Officers production: 0 - Officers decay: 0
15:44:32 (Reporting) Austria - Conscripts production: 0 - Conscripts decay: 0
15:44:32 (Reporting) Austria - Officers production: 0 - Officers decay: 0
15:44:32 (Reporting) Poland - Conscripts production: 0 - Conscripts decay: 0
15:44:32 (Reporting) Poland - Officers production: 0 - Officers decay: 0
15:44:32 (Reporting) Ending CheckConscriptsOfficersVariation

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BigDuke66
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Sat Dec 03, 2011 6:19 pm

lodilefty wrote:These are WAD (pathfinding):
there are Major Roads for the Light Cav to move 2 regions faster than going directly across the river (there is a river crossing penalty, seen as blue line when pressing shift while a stack is selected).

The heavy forces move directly from Hohenelbe, as that is shortest march path (weather is Snow, so pass is still open).


Are we looking at the same save? Load turn 4(Backup1 folder) of this one:
http://www.ageod-forum.com/showpost.php?p=223253&postcount=29

The light cavalry unit in Hohenelbe moves to Koeniginhof(over a grey link) and then to Koeniggratz(over a blue link) crossing a river 2 times and enters one region more than the direct path would be and this is faster?
Now use an infantry unit from Koeniggratz and move to Hohenelbe, it uses the direct path using 8 days where the route over Koeniginhof they would need 9 days.
I assume that the direct path for the light cavalry would also be a bit faster but the engine simply doesn't allow this movement for whatever reason.


Now look at the other save and load turn 7(main folder not one of the backup folders):
http://www.ageod-forum.com/showpost.php?p=223249&postcount=28

You should see that the light cavalry in Zwickau moves around the mountains to get to Aue and that it can't enter the pass region Freiberg over the 2 entry regions Aue & Chemnitz.
It gets even clearer when using the light cavalry in Zwickau and move them south to Greiz, the engine simply says "Cannot reach the destination from here".
The infantry in Chemnitz can simply walk over the pass.
The pass is already blocked and before the last RC anything that could walk over was light infantry & light cavalry all other units were blocked, now at least the light cavalry refuses to use the links from these entry regions into the pass regions but the Korps with infantry, artillery, etc. do use them although they shouldn't be able to do so.

There is another example, simply try the same save and look at the Korps in Brieg, move it onto the Reichenbach and the game sets the path over Neisse because it's 1 day faster but Glatz is the entry region and should be faster besides that Neisse shouldn't work at all.
Again use one of the light cavalry unit in the south(Ostrau), move it to Brieg and from there to Reichenbach and you'll see that is again refuses to use the link between Glatz and Reichenbach, use one of the heavy cavalry units(Tropau) do the same and you see that it does use the link between Glatz and Reichenbach but this time I guess only because it's not faster than the move over Neisse like it's for the infantry Korps.


Bottom line of both cases is that the light cavalry(maybe also other light units like light infantry) seems to stick to the entry region>pass region>exit region setup when the weather is not snow but when it is snow(or other harsh weather) it refuses to do so.
The infantry(and all other none light units) seem to ignore the entry region>pass region>exit region setup at all, neither when moving in good weather nor in snow do they follow that scheme and are not even stopped when moving over a blocked pass.


Just to make clear I thought the player can use the map as orientation where links are between regions are and where not, especially with these pass regions that have entry regions from where to get into the pass and out of it, so I assumed that there isn't a direct path from Koeniggratz to Hohenelbe, no direct path between Marienberg & Freiberg and no direct path between Neisse & Reuchenbach.
In case that's wrong it should at least be assured that the roads(links) that are drawn on map are faster than paths that are not visible to the player.
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lodilefty
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Sun Dec 04, 2011 12:56 pm

There is a lot of map study required here, and so the answer will takesome time.
Please be patient :)
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HHFD50
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Mon Dec 05, 2011 5:00 am

In the release candidate 5 thread I wrote "...When I tried to move my French units out of their starting locations no direction routes appeared on screen. I have no way to tell whether or not they are moving as ordered or remaining stationary..." Has anyone else experienced this problem and or has it been fixed? Thanks.

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Ebbingford
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Mon Dec 05, 2011 9:14 am

HHFD50 wrote:In the release candidate 5 thread I wrote "...When I tried to move my French units out of their starting locations no direction routes appeared on screen. I have no way to tell whether or not they are moving as ordered or remaining stationary..." Has anyone else experienced this problem and or has it been fixed? Thanks.


If there are no lines showing how many days left of the march then I guess the stack is not moving. It sounds like there is a fixed or locked unit in the stack, one that can't move yet.

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lodilefty
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Mon Dec 05, 2011 2:24 pm

BigDuke66 wrote:Are we looking at the same save? Load turn 4(Backup1 folder) of this one:
http://www.ageod-forum.com/showpost.php?p=223253&postcount=29

The light cavalry unit in Hohenelbe moves to Koeniginhof(over a grey link) and then to Koeniggratz(over a blue link) crossing a river 2 times and enters one region more than the direct path would be and this is faster?
Now use an infantry unit from Koeniggratz and move to Hohenelbe, it uses the direct path using 8 days where the route over Koeniginhof they would need 9 days.
I assume that the direct path for the light cavalry would also be a bit faster but the engine simply doesn't allow this movement for whatever reason.


Now look at the other save and load turn 7(main folder not one of the backup folders):
http://www.ageod-forum.com/showpost.php?p=223249&postcount=28

You should see that the light cavalry in Zwickau moves around the mountains to get to Aue and that it can't enter the pass region Freiberg over the 2 entry regions Aue & Chemnitz.
It gets even clearer when using the light cavalry in Zwickau and move them south to Greiz, the engine simply says "Cannot reach the destination from here".
The infantry in Chemnitz can simply walk over the pass.
The pass is already blocked and before the last RC anything that could walk over was light infantry & light cavalry all other units were blocked, now at least the light cavalry refuses to use the links from these entry regions into the pass regions but the Korps with infantry, artillery, etc. do use them although they shouldn't be able to do so.

There is another example, simply try the same save and look at the Korps in Brieg, move it onto the Reichenbach and the game sets the path over Neisse because it's 1 day faster but Glatz is the entry region and should be faster besides that Neisse shouldn't work at all.
Again use one of the light cavalry unit in the south(Ostrau), move it to Brieg and from there to Reichenbach and you'll see that is again refuses to use the link between Glatz and Reichenbach, use one of the heavy cavalry units(Tropau) do the same and you see that it does use the link between Glatz and Reichenbach but this time I guess only because it's not faster than the move over Neisse like it's for the infantry Korps.


Bottom line of both cases is that the light cavalry(maybe also other light units like light infantry) seems to stick to the entry region>pass region>exit region setup when the weather is not snow but when it is snow(or other harsh weather) it refuses to do so.
The infantry(and all other none light units) seem to ignore the entry region>pass region>exit region setup at all, neither when moving in good weather nor in snow do they follow that scheme and are not even stopped when moving over a blocked pass.


Just to make clear I thought the player can use the map as orientation where links are between regions are and where not, especially with these pass regions that have entry regions from where to get into the pass and out of it, so I assumed that there isn't a direct path from Koeniggratz to Hohenelbe, no direct path between Marienberg & Freiberg and no direct path between Neisse & Reuchenbach.
In case that's wrong it should at least be assured that the roads(links) that are drawn on map are faster than paths that are not visible to the player.


:confused: I'm not sure I completely understand all of the game engine adjustments to movement, but a few observations so far:

Light Horse (Hussars) are in Command (no penalty), but the leader is inactive, and do get a 140% speed over basic Lite Horse speeds (see Element detail window).

A lone Inf Brigade suffers a Command Penalty, and the one you show gets 115% of Heavy Foot speed.

Having said that, the "raw numbers" in the Terrains seem to indicate that the units should both go direct to the Mountain region.

So, we need "someone" to step in and explain the Movement algorithms before we take all the Hussars out behind the woodshed for their path choices.

Stay tuned while I nag someone.... :blink:
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barbu
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Mon Dec 05, 2011 9:41 pm

lodilefty, I just pulled myself from the game to say Thanks! It's looking great, all bugs I had seen previously are gone.

Thanks for your dedication and time :)

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boudi
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Tue Dec 06, 2011 8:58 pm

Baris wrote:With a quick look I think prussian grenadiers and infantry are losing strenght points when there is insufficient money. Most of the Prussian army had 1 strenght elements of units in a few turns advancing in the campaign.



Any idea when this bug will be fixed ? Notice that the "decay file hotfix" did not solve anything with my game patched RC6. But i don't know if it was its purpose.

RC6 + hotfix "Decay" :

Image

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lodilefty
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Ongoing Unit Cost hotfix

Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:55 pm

boudi wrote:Any idea when this bug will be fixed ? Notice that the "decay file hotfix" did not solve anything with my game patched RC6. But i don't know if it was its purpose.

RC6 + hotfix "Decay" :

Image



Working on a new patch, awaiting new exe file.

Meanwhile, extract this into you \RoP\Settings folder
1 file will be overwritten.
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boudi
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Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:00 am

For the next patch, in the "to do list", don't forget to fix this :

About your last point (hosting scale) if you go to <Rise of Prussia directory>\ROP\Graphics\FrontEnd\HostingScale\ there are a series of files named Hosting_scale_xx.png where xx is a number from 0 to 95.

Rename all the files from Hosting_scale_xx.png to Hosting_scalexx.png, just delete that last underscore. Don`t modify the Hosting_scale-bg .png file.

It seems that the last patches are not renaming or installing these files with the correct names.


;)

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BigDuke66
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Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:11 am

And some corrections/explanations to the weather.

1. The names in the tooltip show Gale, Storm & Rain and those don't appear in the manual, there we have Frozen, Blizzard & Mud, would be helpful to know what is what.

2. If Gale is really a state of winter(what I assume because on the map the region is white) then one of the winter graphics for the top left panel that shows the landscape should be used, what is used now is the rain/mud landscape what is just irritating.

3. As there is no 5th graphic for the landscape but we have 5 states of weather another graphic must be added, for now I advise to simply use the snow landscapes.
Maybe if some graphic resources show up the snow and blizzard graphics can be reworked to show the state of "bad visibility" that is mentioned in the manual by adding some kind of "active" snowing & storming similar to the feeling that rain graphic mediates but stronger so the player knows exactly what to expect(Battles start at Close Range) when looking at the landscape graphic.
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lodilefty
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Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:54 am

boudi wrote:For the next patch, in the "to do list", don't forget to fix this :



;)


It's "in" :D
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boudi
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Thu Dec 08, 2011 4:29 pm

Thanks ! ;)

The event about Saxon monkey surrenders :D will be reworked or not ?

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lodilefty
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Thu Dec 08, 2011 5:21 pm

boudi wrote:Thanks ! ;)

The event about Saxon monkey surrenders :D will be reworked or not ?


I need specifics about tthe Saxon surrender to fix it.

I did go ahead and reduce the VP losses when Saxon troops get eliminated (in RC6) :D

Also, Already "in":
From RC6


  • Reworked Saxon Capitulation events
    • Now only the 3 road regions leading to Pirna must be controlled
      • Dresden
      • Radeburg
      • Dippoldiswalde
    • Probability once regions are controlled is now 100% (was 75%, causing reports that event wasn't working)
    • Capitulation must occur before the end of 1756 (was through April 1757)
    • When requirements are met, a line message will warn players that capitulation will occur the next turn
    • Reminder: if Prussia is AI, capitulation can also occur if less than 24 SAX Elements are remaining in Saxony Theater.
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BigDuke66
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Thu Dec 08, 2011 8:42 pm

And while your at the Saxon it would be nice to get all 10 regiments that the Prussians got instead of only 5 batallions.
Size of the battalions seems OK also that they come in understrength as many Saxon soldiers deserted but all 10 regiments=20 battalions should be in.
What I don't know is if these staid pure Saxon regiments or if they "converted" to Prussian units with dwindling Saxon manpower.

Also an event that raises to Prussian army manpower up to simulate the addition of 30 men to each company in January 1757 would be nice.
The raise was about 21,4% so with all line battalions having 4 companies adding a 5th would cover that but I don't know if an event can do this, maybe a check of how many battalions there are and adding a replacement unit for each battalion to the pool would work so the battalions can then be filled.
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Anazagar
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Thu Dec 08, 2011 8:44 pm

lodilefty wrote:I need specifics about tthe Saxon surrender to fix it.

I did go ahead and reduce the VP losses when Saxon troops get eliminated (in RC6) :D

Also, Already "in":
From RC6


The main problem with that event is that it removes the troops at the end of turn resolution but based on the data available at the start of turn resolution.

This means that saxons usually are allowed to move and fight (for example escaping the siege altogether) only to be removed. Or that sometimes Austrian Austrian forces are able to capture on of the 3 regions only to find the saxons removed.

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lodilefty
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Fri Dec 09, 2011 1:59 pm

Anazagar wrote:The main problem with that event is that it removes the troops at the end of turn resolution but based on the data available at the start of turn resolution.

This means that saxons usually are allowed to move and fight (for example escaping the siege altogether) only to be removed. Or that sometimes Austrian Austrian forces are able to capture on of the 3 regions only to find the saxons removed.


If the Saxons move out of Saxony, they survive.

I could add a count units check to see if a Saxon force still exists in Pirna:
If less tha xx elements in Pirna, no trigger of event. (to allow for fixed Garrison if they get stuck there.)
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Baris
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Fri Dec 09, 2011 3:52 pm

Does the Saxons not disappear when they destroy their own fortified camp :bonk: ?
I think Pirna event was a bit related to the camp also.

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lodilefty
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Fri Dec 09, 2011 3:55 pm

Baris wrote:Does the Saxons not disappear when they destroy their own fortified camp :bonk: ?
I think Pirna event was a bit related to the camp also.


AFAIK, nothing scripted does that.
Pirna Region doesn't appear in event, except to remove the Saxon Camp at the end of the event chain (after units removed)
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Baris
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Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:32 pm

lodilefty wrote: except to remove the Saxon Camp at the end of the event chain (after units removed)


is the event about removing the saxon camp after Units removed(destroyed) or move from Pirna? Im asking because in my game with Narwhal I desroyed the fortified camp and move to other side of the Elbe river (not south direction to Prag) after defeating Prussian force. All the Saxon force were disappeared while moving .

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lodilefty
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Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:42 pm

Baris wrote:is the event about removing the saxon camp after Units removed(destroyed) or move from Pirna? Im asking because in my game with Narwhal I desroyed the fortified camp and move to other side of the Elbe river (not south direction to Wien) after defeating Prussian force. All the Saxon force were disappeared while moving .


AFAIK, a unit that is in the process of moving at end of hosting that turn is still considered to be in the "departure region"

If they had not yet left Saxony (check Theater filter) completely, they would be removed....
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lodilefty
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Sat Dec 10, 2011 3:16 pm

BigDuke66 wrote:Are we looking at the same save? Load turn 4(Backup1 folder) of this one:
http://www.ageod-forum.com/showpost.php?p=223253&postcount=29

The light cavalry unit in Hohenelbe moves to Koeniginhof(over a grey link) and then to Koeniggratz(over a blue link) crossing a river 2 times and enters one region more than the direct path would be and this is faster?
Now use an infantry unit from Koeniggratz and move to Hohenelbe, it uses the direct path using 8 days where the route over Koeniginhof they would need 9 days.
I assume that the direct path for the light cavalry would also be a bit faster but the engine simply doesn't allow this movement for whatever reason.


Now look at the other save and load turn 7(main folder not one of the backup folders):
http://www.ageod-forum.com/showpost.php?p=223249&postcount=28

You should see that the light cavalry in Zwickau moves around the mountains to get to Aue and that it can't enter the pass region Freiberg over the 2 entry regions Aue & Chemnitz.
It gets even clearer when using the light cavalry in Zwickau and move them south to Greiz, the engine simply says "Cannot reach the destination from here".
The infantry in Chemnitz can simply walk over the pass.
The pass is already blocked and before the last RC anything that could walk over was light infantry & light cavalry all other units were blocked, now at least the light cavalry refuses to use the links from these entry regions into the pass regions but the Korps with infantry, artillery, etc. do use them although they shouldn't be able to do so.

There is another example, simply try the same save and look at the Korps in Brieg, move it onto the Reichenbach and the game sets the path over Neisse because it's 1 day faster but Glatz is the entry region and should be faster besides that Neisse shouldn't work at all.
Again use one of the light cavalry unit in the south(Ostrau), move it to Brieg and from there to Reichenbach and you'll see that is again refuses to use the link between Glatz and Reichenbach, use one of the heavy cavalry units(Tropau) do the same and you see that it does use the link between Glatz and Reichenbach but this time I guess only because it's not faster than the move over Neisse like it's for the infantry Korps.


Bottom line of both cases is that the light cavalry(maybe also other light units like light infantry) seems to stick to the entry region>pass region>exit region setup when the weather is not snow but when it is snow(or other harsh weather) it refuses to do so.
The infantry(and all other none light units) seem to ignore the entry region>pass region>exit region setup at all, neither when moving in good weather nor in snow do they follow that scheme and are not even stopped when moving over a blocked pass.


Just to make clear I thought the player can use the map as orientation where links are between regions are and where not, especially with these pass regions that have entry regions from where to get into the pass and out of it, so I assumed that there isn't a direct path from Koeniggratz to Hohenelbe, no direct path between Marienberg & Freiberg and no direct path between Neisse & Reuchenbach.
In case that's wrong it should at least be assured that the roads(links) that are drawn on map are faster than paths that are not visible to the player.


Still digging, but here's what we've assembled so far:
http://www.ageod.net/agewiki/Movement_and_Pathfinding

The only thing I can't quite explain is that pesky Light Cav (hussar) unit that goes 2 regions vs. one:
a) There is no road Translink involved
b) Doesn't matter if the unit has leader or not
c) There is a Minor River at the first crossing, but not the second.

So, I don't know which it is, unless it's the infamous "when you get to low numbers, modifying calcultations aren't seen, as 2 x 0.75 is still 2"
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lodilefty
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Mon Dec 12, 2011 1:57 pm

New version:
http://www.ageod-forum.com/showpost.php?p=223980&postcount=1

Thank you for your inputs! :love:
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lodilefty
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Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:39 pm

lodilefty wrote:Still digging, but here's what we've assembled so far:
http://www.ageod.net/agewiki/Movement_and_Pathfinding

The only thing I can't quite explain is that pesky Light Cav (hussar) unit that goes 2 regions vs. one:
a) There is no road Translink involved
b) Doesn't matter if the unit has leader or not
c) There is a Minor River at the first crossing, but not the second.

So, I don't know which it is, unless it's the infamous "when you get to low numbers, modifying calcultations aren't seen, as 2 x 0.75 is still 2"



The answer is somewhat confusing:
The Hussars don't gain Road bonus while crossing the river, but once in the region, the Major Road bonus is calculated. This results in very fast movement for the Hussars. (much faster than a move into Mountains via Pass)

The key is that the River penalty is missing at one crossing. I plan a full map review at some future time...

Also, in a Retreat, "you get a bonus in days when you retreat, so you reach faster the adjacent region."
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