Palpat
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Mon Apr 27, 2009 12:47 pm

Seven Years war!
At last! :thumbsup:

I'm glad this here is not another panzer game. Thanks Ageod.

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Pocus
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Mon Apr 27, 2009 2:51 pm

razorbackjac wrote:Where were you guys 30 years ago. Can't wait. :thumbsup:


Personally? I was learning Wooden Ships and Iron Men (AH (c) 1975) with my older brother. :neener:
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Florent
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Tue Apr 28, 2009 6:19 pm

Is the sub-title correct ?
I have read numerous complaints during the years from german player (in The General and in Forums)indicating that the Soldier-King was the father of Frederic (König-Soldat) and not Frederic.
In France the father of Frederic, Frederick-William is called "Le Roi-Sergent" because he loved to see soldiers parading and training.
He is also(of course) the man who created the excellence of Prussian infantry with Anhalt-Dessau.

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arsan
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Tue Apr 28, 2009 6:26 pm

You mean the Frederikus Rex?? :confused: Where is the mention to Soldier-king??
In any case, i think maybe Rise of Prussia (The Seven Years War (in Europe?)) would be more explicative.
(and would have the word "War" in the title, a good thing for a wargames ;) :D )

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Generalisimo
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Tue Apr 28, 2009 6:29 pm

arsan wrote:You mean the Frederikus Rex?? :confused: Where is the mention to Soldier-king??
In any case, i think maybe Rise of Prussia (The Seven Years War (in Europe?)) would be more explicative.
(and would have the word "War" in the title, a good thing for a wargames ;) :D )

Go back to the root forum, to "AGEOD Forums", then scroll down to the ROP forum link... you will see this:
Rise of Prussia (X Viewing)
[color="Red"]The Soldier-King's army[/color] awaits you! (1755-1763)

That's what he is talking about... ;)
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arsan
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Tue Apr 28, 2009 6:41 pm

Aha! :sherlock:
Easy to fix: The Soldier-King son's army awaits you! (1755-1763) ;) :D

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dooya
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Tue Apr 28, 2009 7:18 pm

Florent wrote:Is the sub-title correct ?
I have read numerous complaints during the years from german player (in The General and in Forums)indicating that the Soldier-King was the father of Frederic (König-Soldat) and not Frederic.
In France the father of Frederic, Frederick-William is called "Le Roi-Sergent" because he loved to see soldiers parading and training.
He is also(of course) the man who created the excellence of Prussian infantry with Anhalt-Dessau.
You are right, the Soldatenkönig was the father of Frederic the Great.
No quote - No bullshit!

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boboneilltexas
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Finally something to waste my summer

Tue Apr 28, 2009 8:48 pm

I am sooo glad to see that you have VISTA support for this game. I want it. :thumbsup:
For one grandsire stood with Henry,
On Hanover's Sacred sod,
And the other followed "Harry"
In the Light Horse' foremost squad.
And my grandsires stood together
When the foe at Yorktown fell;
"Stock" like this, against oppression
Could do naught else but REBEL.

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vonRocko
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Tue Apr 28, 2009 10:48 pm

Wonderful!! Ageod continues to amaze me. I love their games. :coeurs:

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Jamescott
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Wed Apr 29, 2009 1:31 am

The timing of the announcement couldn't be better as I'm currently reading "Frederick the Great on the Art of War" by Luvaas. I'm relatively new to the era but find it fascinating thus far. I look forward to learning more about the game, and insight from the many knowledgeable posters on this subject.

orca
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Wed Apr 29, 2009 3:45 am

Very interesting - a favorite era for me. I'd also hope to see that the first two Silesian Wars (1740-42 and 1744-45) can be covered too. But then I'd also like to see the Italian campaigns of Charles Emmanuel in Italy (1744-1748).

But setting that aside I do have one other question - how will the campaigns of Prince Ferdinand in Western Germany be handled? As separate scenarios, or as part of the main scenarios? Other than in 1756 the two fronts were almost completely independent.

I'm also concerned that it'll be hard to make a good campaign game. I can see very interesting scenarios on a shorter time scale, but given the balance of forces I'd expect any game to become unbalances over Seven Years. Realistically by 1760 the allies were strong enough to decisively beat Frederick if they had the will and had been willing to pay a high enough price. I suspect players will have less trouble than their historical counterparts.

tc237
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Wed Apr 29, 2009 4:07 am

How are they going to handle the Russian Empress' death?
hmm...IIRC some board wargames handle it as a sort of "known random event", the players know that it will happen eventually but not exactly when.

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Sol Invictus
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Wed Apr 29, 2009 5:34 am

tc237 wrote:How are they going to handle the Russian Empress' death?
hmm...IIRC some board wargames handle it as a sort of "known random event", the players know that it will happen eventually but not exactly when.




Yes, that will be tricky. It should definately be somewhat random. Most would agree, if she lived the Prussians would have almost surely lost the war. I wonder if diplomacy will play a part? Maybe the multiple choice events will incorporate some diplomatic possibilities.
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Wed Apr 29, 2009 9:54 am

Generalisimo wrote:Go back to the root forum, to "AGEOD Forums", then scroll down to the ROP forum link... you will see this:
Rise of Prussia (X Viewing)
[color="Red"]The Soldier-King's army[/color] awaits you! (1755-1763)

That's what he is talking about... ;)

I have no idea what you are talking about... :siffle:





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Hok
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Wed Apr 29, 2009 10:27 am

Rafiki wrote:I have no idea what you are talking about... :siffle:





:wacko:


+1 :cool:

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Generalisimo
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Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:20 pm

Rafiki wrote:I have no idea what you are talking about... :siffle:





:wacko:

:thumbsup:
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Hohenlohe
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Wed Apr 29, 2009 6:28 pm

Florent wrote:Is the sub-title correct ?
I have read numerous complaints during the years from german player (in The General and in Forums)indicating that the Soldier-King was the father of Frederic (König-Soldat) and not Frederic.
In France the father of Frederic, Frederick-William is called "Le Roi-Sergent" because he loved to see soldiers parading and training.
He is also(of course) the man who created the excellence of Prussian infantry with Anhalt-Dessau.


Frederick-William loved not only seeing his soldiers parading and training he also loved to see his grenadier-guard of the "Langen Kerls" - the Potsdam Giants - for which he paid usually more than for a regular grenadier regiment.
Every european ruler of that time knew the fact that they could amuse the soldier-king with sending him recruits which were longer than 6 feet.As I remember this bataillion was dissolved as Frederick II. became king.
Just imagine there was only one bataillion of them which had cost the king more than a regular regiment.
The prussian line infantry of that time was famous for her morale, her fast marching and for their higher rate of fire compared to other nations' infantry.
The main reason for the ongoing higher fire rate was the use of an iron ramrod for the muskets compared to the usual wooden one of that time this was a major improvement.
As I know from some books the Prussian had a fire rate of three shots per minute due to their sharp drill compared to the usual one or two shots of the Austrian infantry.
I think that this must be shown in the unit files of the game. Together with the fire rates the Prussians had learned to fire in salvoes regularly due to their drill so that the quality of their troops equaled the higher superiority in numbers of their enemies until the midst of the war as the quality somewhat diminished due to the losses they had at Kunersdorf and Zorndorf.
Just my sixpence to think about... :thumbsup:

greetings

Hohenlohe :coeurs:
R.I.P. Henry D.

In Remembrance of my Granduncle Hans Weber, a Hungaro-German Soldier,served in Austro-Hungarian Forces during WWI,war prisoner, missed in Sibiria 1918...

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Sol Invictus
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Thu Apr 30, 2009 11:32 pm

In the announcement, it says that the game covers the war from 1757-1763 so will Prussia start the game with Saxony already occupied?
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Florent
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Fri May 01, 2009 7:41 am

Actually they said a few lines above 1756-1763.
The 1756 scenario could be the tutorial scenario as it is a shorter campaign, the invasion of Saxony taking place late August/September, the battle of Lobositz October 1st.
Moreover there is the important problem of the Saxon Army, either retreating historically to Pirna, or an option to Bohemia to help the Austrians.
In the first case (Pirna), the surrender to shortage of supply will create an event incorporating the Saxons in Prussian service ...for some time :D (entire battalions deserted in the next months).
To this day we don't know if the Anti-Prussian forces are played by the same player or if the IA takes the Russians, Saxons, French if you choose the Austrians.
I say this because they rarely coordinated their actions.

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arsan
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Fri May 01, 2009 9:53 am

Florent wrote:To this day we don't know if the Anti-Prussian forces are played by the same player or if the IA takes the Russians, Saxons, French if you choose the Austrians.
I say this because they rarely coordinated their actions.


I'm pretty sure this is will be a "wargame style" two sides game (Prussian alliance vs. anti-prussian alliance). Like French vs allies in NCP.
For what i know VGN will be the first multi sided AGEOD game.
I guess the reinforcements setup, events, locking of stacks and the like will have to take care of the lack of coordination. I really prefer it this way :)

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Florent
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Fri May 01, 2009 10:05 am

I agree with you, 1757 was the year where there were some more coordination with the coalition but usually it was not the case.

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Gen.Montcalm
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Sun May 03, 2009 12:02 am

Oh my god... this with WiA will probably be my 2 most played game ever... thank you ageod.

PS. Will we see some awesome painted units cards?
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Anguille
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Mon May 04, 2009 7:41 am

Truth is while i love all the previous games by AGEOD, this one may become my favorite pet... :thumbsup:

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Hok
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Mon May 04, 2009 8:45 am

Sol Invictus wrote:In the announcement, it says that the game covers the war from 1757-1763 so will Prussia start the game with Saxony already occupied?


1756 Saxony will be a scenario ;)

Campaign will certainly begin in 1756 too, it will depend on Saxony events ... stay Tuned.

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Hok
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Mon May 04, 2009 8:48 am

orca wrote:Very interesting - a favorite era for me. I'd also hope to see that the first two Silesian Wars (1740-42 and 1744-45) can be covered too. But then I'd also like to see the Italian campaigns of Charles Emmanuel in Italy (1744-1748).

But setting that aside I do have one other question - how will the campaigns of Prince Ferdinand in Western Germany be handled? As separate scenarios, or as part of the main scenarios? Other than in 1756 the two fronts were almost completely independent.

I'm also concerned that it'll be hard to make a good campaign game. I can see very interesting scenarios on a shorter time scale, but given the balance of forces I'd expect any game to become unbalances over Seven Years. Realistically by 1760 the allies were strong enough to decisively beat Frederick if they had the will and had been willing to pay a high enough price. I suspect players will have less trouble than their historical counterparts.


Today we focus on 7YW, but ... Austrian succession war and Silesian wars might be include in the game :niark:

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Sol Invictus
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Mon May 04, 2009 3:22 pm

Hok wrote:1756 Saxony will be a scenario ;)

Campaign will certainly begin in 1756 too, it will depend on Saxony events ... stay Tuned.



Excellent! :thumbsup:
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Florent
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Mon May 04, 2009 3:48 pm

"I'm also concerned that it'll be hard to make a good campaign game. I can see very interesting scenarios on a shorter time scale, but given the balance of forces I'd expect any game to become unbalances over Seven Years."

There is absolutly no reason to believe that the Campaign game will be unbalanced or not good.
Actually the scheme is always the same with Fred, he always fight first with one part of his army in Silesia or Bohemia, then with the other part he is moving on the next threat.
There were not pursuit at this time, thus like AACW a battle will cost you so much cohesion loss (normally)that if you try it it will at your own risk.
It is interesting to note that normally Fred wanted a battle of annihilation like Napo but there were too many reasons not doing it especially a second army could strike you (What Fred feared the most and why he changed his mind)).
Christopher Duffy gives at least 3 other reasons for not pursuing at the time.

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Sol Invictus
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Mon May 04, 2009 4:01 pm

I agree Florent, while all armies would have wanted to pursue a defeated foe in order to annihilate them, usually the victor was almost as bloodied and exhausted as the defeated army. It is also almost always quicker to retreat than to pursue in combat order. Even Napoleon could very rarely pursue a defeated army to the point of destruction.
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orca
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Wed May 06, 2009 3:42 am

It's not the annihilation that worries me about a campaign game - it's the attrition. In 1756-7 Frederick had a well trained large army. By 1760 it was mostly gone - the rump was still there and it was filled out with raw recruits. The balance of forces by 1760 was completely uneven - I still think it's remarkable that Frederick held onto most of Silesia that year. Had his opponents been a little more aggressive he would have been in deep trouble.

The structure of any campaign is self evident. It HAS to be the case that Prussia has the best army in 1756, but resources are on the allied side. Over time the Prussian army will slowly wither and the balance of forces become worse and worse. This of course was the dynamic that drove Frederick's strategy throughout the war, and especially in 1757. Admittedly other was have similar structure, the US Civil War and World War II for starters. But it's hard to have good gameplay in this situation - especially in the Seven Year's War when the balance of resources was so uneven.

As already mentioned, had Elizabeth not died we would remember the War as the one where Austria reasserted itself, and Canada might still belong to France! What did Pitt say - "Canada was won in the hills of Germany"?

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Sol Invictus
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Wed May 06, 2009 5:30 am

It will definately be a balancing act to recreate the conditions that allowed Prussia to hang in against steep odds. I am guessing that the events will play a part here. I assume that there is some mechanism that prevents Prussia's foes from simply overwhelming Frederick through perfectly coordinated action. Elizabeth's health will most likely play a large role.
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