How to Stop Riots and Strikes

[jscott991]

Rhone has been experiencing riots and strikes for turn after turn. My over all satisfaction is 50%. It dropped for a while because of an economic crisis, but has finally recovered. I've used the decision to send troops in, but that didn't seem to do anything. I've stationed troops there, but that hasn't done anything either.

My average satisfaction gain from national market sales is .39% each turn. I've turned my census tax to 0 to avoid losing satisfaction from that.

Under Lyon's name is a star which if I click it brings up decision mode. But no regional decisions seem playable.

How do you stop riots and strikes?

[vaalen]

[quote="jscott991"]Rhone has been experiencing riots and strikes for turn after turn. My over all satisfaction is 50%. It dropped for a while because of an economic crisis, but has finally recovered. I've used the decision to send troops in, but that didn't seem to do anything. I've stationed troops there, but that hasn't done anything either.

My average satisfaction gain from national market sales is .39% each turn. I've turned my census tax to 0 to avoid losing satisfaction from that.

Under Lyon's name is a star which if I click it brings up decision mode. But no regional decisions seem playable.

Once the riots and strikes start, they seem to feed on themselves, and are not easy to stop. But I have done it successfully, many times.

It often takes time for things to happen in PON The decision for martial law and sending in troops can help, but it can take many times. If you have any military police, send all you have to the province, and send a lot of cavalry. It is worth building military police units for this purpose. There also may be decisions that make your people happier in general, such as political reforms or increasing education, that can have a dramatic effect on general happiness, and would have that effect in Rhone, as well.

I would also make sure that all your peoples food needs are met, as food shortages, even minor ones, can really cause discontent.

I have learned that there are no instant solution to riots, but taking these measures, combined with the increasing satisfaction of your people with consumer goods, will eventually stop the riots, but it could take many turns.

[czert2]

gain of .39 is relative low, which goods you lack to supply to your population ? mine is .53-64 depending if i supply all goods or not.
And when actual riots happen, send cavalary+polici unit there (look for pol(ocing) value in unit stats).

for building of resource bulding in forgein land - well, it depends on your resources situation - when i have a lot of tehm, and i see i need some resource, and cant build it in my state, I will build it forgen state, dost matter on rlations.
Since if i keep it, i get resources directly, if they nationalize them...well i buy them from market (and still earn money on it). And as a hint - use any silk/opium/gems/gold resource you can.

[jscott991]

I need to know how to increase that gain from .39 to .5 or .6.

What should I be doing?

It's hard for me to tell what I'm selling to my population and what I should be selling. Is that the problem?

I can't manage contentment at all. It's decaying badly everywhere without decisions. I thought I had simply been set back by the economic crisis, but I think I'm doing something wrong.

[czert2]

I need to know how to increase that gain from .39 to .5 or .6.

What should I be doing?

It's hard for me to tell what I'm selling to my population and what I should be selling. Is that the problem?

I can't manage contentment at all. It's decaying badly everywhere without decisions. I thought I had simply been set back by the economic crisis, but I think I'm doing something wrong.

you need to fulfill all population needs - especialy food and luxury goods (all at 100% of posible sales), and they have to be different too. Ppl will not be happy if they are 100% feed, but all of this is from grain, fruits and fish. You need to supply rice (i find funny that my russians consume more rice than grain), tropical food and others.
Having 100% sales of different common goods for 0.6+ is must have too.

To see what you actualy selling to pop...isnt anything simpler than to press f4, move mouse over selected product ald see his consumption/sell on national/colonial market. (for all goods i set 80% avaivability to domestic market).

And i must confess, i little cheated - i created event which created around map some new sources of sugar (close to existing ones or simply expanded amount of existing ones) for sugar/rum, since this is most hard to find resource.
Having railroad (and enough coal for her) in resource stuctures for maximum production is must have. And as told, if you have resources dont hesasitate to build needed resource building in forgein lands, they will produce for you, and in worst case of seizing, you will buy that resource on market (asuming you have merchant ships in related marinitime trade box).

[jscott991]

This is extremely hard to do. I'm buying everything I can and selling 80% of everything to the domestic market and I can't get them anywhere near the luxuries they want and I only gain about .49 on average. This is as France in 1854.

What bothers me the most is what does that .49 even mean? If it means I'm gaining 6 contentment a year, then I don't understand why so many of my provinces go down a point or so every turn!

The contentment model seems a little broken and overly harsh to me. Is there a way to mod the game data to lower the penalties?

[loki100]

What bothers me the most is what does that .49 even mean? If it means I'm gaining 6 contentment a year, then I don't understand why so many of my provinces go down a point or so every turn!

.49 is not enough, to stand still you need around .55/.6

[jscott991]

That's what everyone says. I just don't see how that's possible in the 1850s.

The decline of contentment is far too opaque. And I can't believe it's as bad as it is. If I'm earning +.45 per turn, that means I'm gaining .9 x 12 contentment points a year. That's a 10.8 increase. I've zeroed out my census taxes, so I only rarely get messages about high taxes dropping contentment in a province or two.

So people naturally decline in contentment more than 1 point per month? And the game doesn't tell you why this happening anywhere? Furthermore, the game doesn't really even show it, unless you look very carefully.

And if I can't buy enough luxuries, common goods, and food to get to .55 to .6 a turn, there's no way the AI is able to do it. There simply aren't enough goods in the world. So is the AI collapsing under the weight of its contentment or does it get a free pass and it's only the player that suffers this enormous degradation in popular support every turn?

In fact the supply of rare goods like luxuries (other than luxury goods) or uncommon food (like rice, shockingly) doesn't even seem enough to support one nation keeping their contentment level. That's kind of off, isn't it?

Is there a way to adjust this value in the files to keep it from degrading so much every turn? I really like this game, but this is becoming a game-killer for me. It's just too frustrating and the information just isn't presented in an understandable way at all (even Victoria II makes this much clearer).

[Arakash]

That's what everyone says. I just don't see how that's possible in the 1850s.

The decline of contentment is far too opaque. And I can't believe it's as bad as it is. If I'm earning +.45 per turn, that means I'm gaining .9 x 12 contentment points a year. That's a 10.8 increase. I've zeroed out my census taxes, so I only rarely get messages about high taxes dropping contentment in a province or two.

So people naturally decline in contentment more than 1 point per month? And the game doesn't tell you why this happening anywhere? Furthermore, the game doesn't really even show it, unless you look very carefully.

And if I can't buy enough luxuries, common goods, and food to get to .55 to .6 a turn, there's no way the AI is able to do it. There simply aren't enough goods in the world. So is the AI collapsing under the weight of its contentment or does it get a free pass and it's only the player that suffers this enormous degradation in popular support every turn?

In fact the supply of rare goods like luxuries (other than luxury goods) or uncommon food (like rice, shockingly) doesn't even seem enough to support one nation keeping their contentment level. That's kind of off, isn't it?

Is there a way to adjust this value in the files to keep it from degrading so much every turn? I really like this game, but this is becoming a game-killer for me. It's just too frustrating and the information just isn't presented in an understandable way at all (even Victoria II makes this much clearer).

I also find myself kind of baffled by the contentment system. In my Japan game (up to 1875 so far) contentment and militancy seem to rise and sit at 90-100 really no matter what i do. Even during the height of the Boshin war.
My gain from selling to national populace seems to fluctuate from 0.4-0.55 and i really cant point my finger at anything ive done, turn by turn, that leads to it happening.
I dont think ive ever seen the rise above 0.6 before, despite the fact I have a huge industry at home and am buying everything from overseas markets that i can (with high commerce values in most/all trade boxes)

Ive been wondering whether the "% assigned to national market" (in the F4 screen) needs to be set in a certain way to get it working.

[jscott991]

I have that set at 80%, meaning I'm dumping everything I can to the national market, and I still just get something in the .4's every turn.

[Arakash]

I have that set at 80%, meaning I'm dumping everything I can to the national market, and I still just get something in the .4's every turn.

Ive had another close look at my F4 screen and I think part of the difference between our experiences in my game im a natural producer of some of the goods you mentioned you were having a really hard time getting your hands on.
So for example, Tea, Rice, Silk(from the luxury group).
Even in my game (by 1875), most of these are notoriously hard to come by if i wasn't producing them myself.

That said, the system is still really confusing to me because ive seen a lot of problems with consistency as i mentioned earlier. Satisfaction/contentment gain seems to fluctuate quite a bit and for reasons that i cant figure out.

[loki100]

There are, I believe, issues in the underlying code that affect some countries to.

France up to the early 1860s and then again in 1870 has an inbuilt problem. The early period reflects the problem that Napoleon's seizure of power in 1851/2 did not resolve any of the tensions of 1848-51. Republicans and the left were not reconciled and of course the two monarchist factions were making trouble. The US, up to the civil war is another with more problems than the basic game mechanics would imply. Japan maybe another, or there maybe enough adverse events early on to give this impression.

With France, really into the 1870s, all you can do is manage the situation, unless you don't want to play a historically constrained game you can't make it go away. Whatever dreams of empire L Napoleon had, the reality was that Second Empire was very constrained by its domestic situation - which the game reflects. You can colonise, even make war, but you daren't over commit to foreign adventures or risk war weariness from a long bloody struggle.

US, and Japan, has the offsetting advantage of luxury goods to hand. For France, I'd suggest go and get them - East Africa and Indo China seem like good ideas in this respect.

You may also want to be careful about playing cards that increase your population (as that can hit the % satisfied) and of course the demand increasing techs can be a problem --- and a bonus --- so again try to prioritise the contentment ones if you can.

[jscott991]

Which techs affect contentment?

So I'm guessing the values that affect contentment degradation cannot be modded.

If that is PoN's take on the Second Empire, then it is a little off, so I'm not sure I think the game is historically modeling how the public felt about Napoleon III (people always forget the last plebiscite results and overemphasize the Empire's collapse during the Franco-Prussian War). I'd like to change it and I don't feel that would be making the game less historically accurate.

[czert2]

I have that set at 80%, meaning I'm dumping everything I can to the national market, and I still just get something in the .4's every turn.

so taht means only two things :
you didnt fullfiled 100% of pop needs and/or you didnt offer enough varioty of goods to keep them happy.
And you complain you dont have enough rice as frog ? well, around vitnam are you find a lot a rice paddies...and it is easy to get protectorate/colony there as frogland.
for silk/opium look at china (mainly), persia, oman,russia.
if you lack stuctures for producing more needed resources, simply activate extended structures pool, it help a lot. And as pointed, having railroad in regions producing needed resources is must have.

and for contenment -i was allways under impresion that anything under 0.5 actualy meaned lowering and above it rising (dont forget on tech affecting contenment).

[jscott991]

I give up.

After a few turns of .45-.49, I've dropped back to .38. This is mid 1854.

I have no idea how this works. I'm putting in orders for every good I can and dumping 80% to the domestic market. I have adequate capital, state money (tons of it actually), and big stockpiles of some things, but I can't control contentment.

The system this game uses is far too opaque to be this damaging to how a player's country is performing.

[Arakash]

I give up.

After a few turns of .45-.49, I've dropped back to .38. This is mid 1854.

I have no idea how this works. I'm putting in orders for every good I can and dumping 80% to the domestic market. I have adequate capital, state money (tons of it actually), and big stockpiles of some things, but I can't control contentment.

The system this game uses is far too opaque to be this damaging to how a player's country is performing.

I wouldn't give up just yet, i think there are other things you can try. While i really dont get the contentment system, I can share some of what i know about trying to import the goods i need to make the country run smoothly.

Just to answer your earlier question about contentment techs, ive seen a few, most it seems in the "Social Cultural, Internal Politics and Colonial Discoveries".
Looking at my game(at a glance), i saw several that were unlocked in 1855, a few in 1865 and several more that were unlocked in 1875.

You mentioned earlier as well that you are putting in orders for every good you can, but in my experience that is no guarantee of success. The only reliable way i know i'm succeeding is if my surplus of the good is increasing over time.(for example going over 100 and growing)

Do you have high commerce values in the MTB's where you are placing these orders?
I imagine for you, the Chinese MTB's are where you really need to make sure you have higher commerce values than your opponents, so your more likely to get some of the rarer goods we were talking about earlier.
In my game ive learned the sailing merchant fleets have very low values, but the steam merchant ships of various types have high values so can very quickly give you good chances to dominate the MTB's (higher chance of succeeding to buy goods) if the other AI dont use them.

Like czert2, im also wondering how well you are doing in IndoChina.

If your really desperate for resources but still knee deep in money, you can build plantations/mines in foreign territories, in the hope that you can at least buy some of it from the market even if the country siezes the site.
As Japan this is something i recently did in the US and Ottoman empire in my game as i was really starved for coal, so much so that ive been buying all my steel and most of my manufactured goods from overseas and almost stopped their production at home.
Its a massive money sink, basically handing your competitors free sites most of the time, but if your desperate enough or rich enough, its not a bad idea imo.

Another thing you can do if your knee deep in money is rush some of the techs that assist you succeeding in the buy orders.(Ive seen a couple)

[loki100]

I give up.

After a few turns of .45-.49, I've dropped back to .38. This is mid 1854.

I have no idea how this works. I'm putting in orders for every good I can and dumping 80% to the domestic market. I have adequate capital, state money (tons of it actually), and big stockpiles of some things, but I can't control contentment.

The system this game uses is far too opaque to be this damaging to how a player's country is performing.

You have had a mass of advice both as to the modelling of France in the game and tricks to manage this. The game is designed as a long term slow challenge, where domestic problems are always likely to upset your clever long term plans - thats the nature of PoN (& one reason I find it so addictive and so challenging).

Now there is an easy solution.

Write a script that gives you 100% (or whatever you want) contentment in all of France and a large stockpile of key luxuries.

Should solve the problem, my suspicion is it will set France easily on the road to global domination, you can probably win before the US economy grows massively in the late 1890s.

[Pocus]

You might have a high militancy if contentment degrades fast. Reduce it by greasing their palms with social reforms...

[jscott991]

You might have a high militancy if contentment degrades fast. Reduce it by greasing their palms with social reforms...

My highest militancy fluctuates in the teens (Nord has been as high as 18 and is 15, I think, right now). I have no militancy in the 20s. I don't know if that's high or not.

I don't mind a long-term challenge. I don't even mind domestic problems hindering international success. But the problem with how this is modeled is that too much information is hidden. If my population is mad because they don't have rice, it doesn't say that anywhere. I can sort of, almost reason it out by seeing that I'm not able to sell rice to them, but it's hardly intuitive for a player to think that French workers in Nord and Rhone are rioting because they don't have rice. In fact, that's counter intuitive because it's ahistorical and weird. Maybe they are mad because they aren't getting enough luxuries (that's the only category where I'm not near the max I can sell them each turn). If that's the case, then the whole world must be mad because there simply aren't that many luxuries in the world economy in 1850 (and the ability to build them is very, very limited).

I'm passing every reform I can. I've done the school one every year. I've done the election one most every year. Etc.

I don't agree with the system's assumptions (contentment should not degrade like this in 1850), but my main problem is that most of the information required to manage contentment (including the amount of degradation and the reason for it) is hidden or poorly presented.

For example, the way the turn report reads I'm gaining contentment from my sales every turn (whether it's .4 or .49, it's reported as a gain). But, in fact, I'm actually losing contentment each turn because .4 is not enough to offset a degrading value that is hidden from me (along with the reason for it).

[czert2]

I give up.

After a few turns of .45-.49, I've dropped back to .38. This is mid 1854.

I have no idea how this works. I'm putting in orders for every good I can and dumping 80% to the domestic market. I have adequate capital, state money (tons of it actually), and big stockpiles of some things, but I can't control contentment.

The system this game uses is far too opaque to be this damaging to how a player's country is performing.

If you want, i can write event for you which will give you resources you lack most and/or create new resources of your liking in regions of your wish. i can help you to control pop.

[czert2]

My highest militancy fluctuates in the teens (Nord has been as high as 18 and is 15, I think, right now). I have no militancy in the 20s. I don't know if that's high or not.

I don't mind a long-term challenge. I don't even mind domestic problems hindering international success. But the problem with how this is modeled is that too much information is hidden. If my population is mad because they don't have rice, it doesn't say that anywhere. I can sort of, almost reason it out by seeing that I'm not able to sell rice to them, but it's hardly intuitive for a player to think that French workers in Nord and Rhone are rioting because they don't have rice. In fact, that's counter intuitive because it's ahistorical and weird. Maybe they are mad because they aren't getting enough luxuries (that's the only category where I'm not near the max I can sell them each turn). If that's the case, then the whole world must be mad because there simply aren't that many luxuries in the world economy in 1850 (and the ability to build them is very, very limited).

I'm passing every reform I can. I've done the school one every year. I've done the election one most every year. Etc.

I don't agree with the system's assumptions (contentment should not degrade like this in 1850), but my main problem is that most of the information required to manage contentment (including the amount of degradation and the reason for it) is hidden or poorly presented.

For example, the way the turn report reads I'm gaining contentment from my sales every turn (whether it's .4 or .49, it's reported as a gain). But, in fact, I'm actually losing contentment each turn because .4 is not enough to offset a degrading value that is hidden from me (along with the reason for it).

post here your savegame, so we can tell exactly what you need .
and yes, unhappy population due to lack of rice or some other goods can be weird, but it is how game works.

and for pocus : when i think more about it, it will good ic game tell you at quartery evaluation how is your population satisfaction evolving , something like :
you have selling enough food, but some more variaty of them can make pop more satisfied, you have enough variaty of luxury good, but dont sell them enough, you lack enough and variaty of common goods...

[loki100]

and for pocus : when i think more about it, it will good ic game tell you at quartery evaluation how is your population satisfaction evolving , something like :
you have selling enough food, but some more variaty of them can make pop more satisfied, you have enough variaty of luxury good, but dont sell them enough, you lack enough and variaty of common goods...

to be fair the B-screen does this to some extent. It tells you what goods you have too much of and which you have too little. That helps with the common and food groups to pin down any that might help push up contentment.

The other useful place to look is row 4 (if I recall properly) of the F4 screen, that'll give you an idea if the population are actually taking up all of a particular good you are selling to them. So with fish, you may be trying to sell them say 30 units but they only take 10. Any where take up matches supply is probably a good clue that you need more (if you can find/produce it)

Luxuries are easier - you inevitably need more than you have.

[jscott991]

No. I barely have any colonies. Just what you start with as France, plus Tunisia and southern Viet Nam.

The problem seems to be the populations unrealistic luxury expectations. I have my best turns of gain when I randomly get gems, gold, or opium.

I'm now producing enough rice for people and that didn't help much. I'm selling people 100% of the food they want, 100% of the common items, but only 33% to 45% of the luxuries they require (and they won't buy any more luxury goods, of which I'm the world's dominant producer). The world doesn't produce enough luxury goods to satisfy 1850s French workers. That doesn't seem to be working that well.

[Pocus]

There is no doubt PON could benefit from months of interface upgrade...

[czert2]

to be fair the B-screen does this to some extent. It tells you what goods you have too much of and which you have too little. That helps with the common and food groups to pin down any that might help push up contentment.

The other useful place to look is row 4 (if I recall properly) of the F4 screen, that'll give you an idea if the population are actually taking up all of a particular good you are selling to them. So with fish, you may be trying to sell them say 30 units but they only take 10. Any where take up matches supply is probably a good clue that you need more (if you can find/produce it)

Luxuries are easier - you inevitably need more than you have.

Completly agree, it does, but as you see some ppl have problems intepreting it, so my idea is to make it "idiot proof".

[jscott991]

What the game does not show you or even tell you is the amount by which contentment is decreasing each turn because the population is unable to buy the goods.

Yes, you can see what your people are buying and can, with effort, deduce what you need more of (even this isn't easy). But nowhere does the game tell you how this affects contentment or by how much. In fact, the only contentment report that is displayed is the high taxes message, which is misleading because only a few provinces are listed, when, in fact, I'm pretty sure all are subject to this penalty.

[Jim-NC]

The high taxes messages show few of the provinces that are effected (you are right jscott991 - more provinces are effected then show on the register). There is also a "hidden" contentment loss. Every 6 months, the game checks the status of the provinces. If you have demonstrations for example, you get an x% drop from whereever you are. So if the contentment is 40%, and you suffer a 10% drop, it becomes 36%. I don't know the exact numbers of the drop, but you will can see this if you track long enough.

As to what the .49 means, it means that each province has a 49% chance of gaining 1 contentment point each turn.

[jscott991]

The high taxes messages show few of the provinces that are effected (you are right jscott991 - more provinces are effected then show on the register). There is also a "hidden" contentment loss. Every 6 months, the game checks the status of the provinces. If you have demonstrations for example, you get an x% drop from whereever you are. So if the contentment is 40%, and you suffer a 10% drop, it becomes 36%. I don't know the exact numbers of the drop, but you will can see this if you track long enough.

As to what the .49 means, it means that each province has a 49% chance of gaining 1 contentment point each turn.

Thank you. This is the best explanation so far of what's happening.

[jscott991]

I want very much to like this game, but I can't past this.

Nord has had a contentment in the high 20s forever. It goes in and out of demonstrations. Other regions in the 40s have demonstrations and strikes seemingly at random.

I can hit .5 to .6 sometimes when gems or opium are available.

But this isn't that much fun. I don't see how, under this system, Nord will ever get back up to an acceptable contentment. And the hidden drop is frustrating (as well as just plain silly; you can't hide something this important from the player).

[Kensai]

What year are you? The more you advance in game the easiest it will be as new resources and goods come into play.