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UsF
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Question regarding alliances in the game

Thu Jun 26, 2014 7:18 pm

I have a question regarding alliances in the game. I do not own it, but am researching things to see if it could be my thing.

Something I'd like to know if is alliances can be made and broken in the game or if an alliance is permanent. I'd like to witness the dynamics of that era and surely that is reflected, I assume.
Another thing would be, if I ally someone, do I then have to control the units of both countries or is it still split up between countries, so I only control mine. If I control everything, does that also mean I control the other nations diplomacy, industry etc? Because that would also mean I could choose to never cancel the alliance.

I am really curious about these things, because of the turn based deep combat and how the rest of the game functions around that. Unfortunately, I couldn't find a demo, so I will have to bother you with these questions. :)

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loki100
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Thu Jun 26, 2014 8:32 pm

UsF wrote:I have a question regarding alliances in the game. I do not own it, but am researching things to see if it could be my thing.

Something I'd like to know if is alliances can be made and broken in the game or if an alliance is permanent. I'd like to witness the dynamics of that era and surely that is reflected, I assume.
Another thing would be, if I ally someone, do I then have to control the units of both countries or is it still split up between countries, so I only control mine. If I control everything, does that also mean I control the other nations diplomacy, industry etc? Because that would also mean I could choose to never cancel the alliance.

I am really curious about these things, because of the turn based deep combat and how the rest of the game functions around that. Unfortunately, I couldn't find a demo, so I will have to bother you with these questions. :)


Some alliances appear by script, to ensure key historical events are reflected, so Italy gets one with France around 1858, the various alliances of Germany, Austria-Hungary etc occur and so on. You can also use diplomacy to get onto good relations with another state and create a defensive alliance that way.

Alliances are purely defensive, in the spirit of the age so you need to find a way to provoke someone to attack you in order to trigger it.

Some wars are scripted, some happen out of bad relations and there is the wonderful crisis system in which, pretty much out of the blue, 2 states can end up at war (tends to happen if they already have bad relations).

In a multi-alliance war, you only control your own troops, so you may have to fight the war in a way that supports your allies. Have a look at my Italy AAR (link in my signature), around 1912-13 my games equivalent of the Great War broke out and as you'll see I ended up making offensives simply to relieve the pressure on my French ally (all very realistic)

The problem is that once established, alliances tend not to be broken (except by scripted event), that is because once you have such good relations, you tend to keep them.

Overall I'd say 'come in, the water is lovely' :)
AJE The Hero, The Traitor and The Barbarian
PoN Manufacturing Italy; A clear bright sun
RoP The Mightiest Empires Fall
WIA Burning down the Houses; Wars in America; The Tea Wars

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UsF
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Thu Jun 26, 2014 8:47 pm

Thank you. This sounds awesome, because I feared as I grow with alliances, I would have to take over the other nations and the micromanagement would grow exponentially towards the great war era.

I am a bit sad about the fixed timeline and scripted events, but guess that it is necessary and a good way to ensure a historical timeline, while still giving the player freedom to act on his own in some areas and alter things. Guess Paradox games with their recent possibility for crazy timeline diversions have made me look for these silly things in the true nature of a sandbox game. But I do understand the benefits of both systems. :)

Thank you very much again, this game became much more appealing to me and I am now pondering to pick it up on Steam. Shame it isn't there as a sale offer.

Edit: Bought the complete version. :)

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HerrDan
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Fri Jun 27, 2014 3:08 am

UsF wrote:Thank you. This sounds awesome, because I feared as I grow with alliances, I would have to take over the other nations and the micromanagement would grow exponentially towards the great war era.

I am a bit sad about the fixed timeline and scripted events, but guess that it is necessary and a good way to ensure a historical timeline, while still giving the player freedom to act on his own in some areas and alter things. Guess Paradox games with their recent possibility for crazy timeline diversions have made me look for these silly things in the true nature of a sandbox game. But I do understand the benefits of both systems. :)

Thank you very much again, this game became much more appealing to me and I am now pondering to pick it up on Steam. Shame it isn't there as a sale offer.

Edit: Bought the complete version. :)


Welcome aboard. :)
"Das Glück hilft dem Kühnen."

German Empire PON 1880 AAR:http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?35152-German-Empire-not-quite-an-AAR

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loki100
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Fri Jun 27, 2014 11:17 am

UsF wrote:Edit: Bought the complete version. :)


A choice you won't regret, welcome to an obsessive engrossing simulation (despite its flaws)


UsF wrote:Thank you. This sounds awesome, because I feared as I grow with alliances, I would have to take over the other nations and the micromanagement would grow exponentially towards the great war era.

I am a bit sad about the fixed timeline and scripted events, but guess that it is necessary and a good way to ensure a historical timeline, while still giving the player freedom to act on his own in some areas and alter things. Guess Paradox games with their recent possibility for crazy timeline diversions have made me look for these silly things in the true nature of a sandbox game. But I do understand the benefits of both systems. :)

Thank you very much again, this game became much more appealing to me and I am now pondering to pick it up on Steam. Shame it isn't there as a sale offer.


I know what you mean about the difference. One thing I found frustrating in the older generation of Paradox games that used lots of fixed events (EU2/Vic1) was that from mid-game onwards they bore no relationship to the world that had emerged and broke, rather than maintained, immersion. If you stick to the historical SoIs, the good thing in PoN is the game can't wildly diverge (at least in Europe and N America) as you can't take provinces to which you have no acknowledged entitlement, no matter how big a victory you win. So states will do better/worse, some may not unify etc, but you can't disrupt the basic political shape of Europe. That means even late game, the scripted events make sense.

I've ended up getting bored with Paradox's revised 'plausible' model. I mean it is fun to take Persia to world domination in V2, but for all the reality you may as well play a space based 4x.
AJE The Hero, The Traitor and The Barbarian
PoN Manufacturing Italy; A clear bright sun
RoP The Mightiest Empires Fall
WIA Burning down the Houses; Wars in America; The Tea Wars

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HerrDan
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Fri Jun 27, 2014 5:16 pm

I agree with Loki here entirely, I had more or less the same experiences with V2, the game isn't bad, but it's more or less a "generic simulator", so you you got the "plausible" model, that Loki mentions that makes "everything possible", but it lacks the depths and immersion feeling of playing a much more realistic simulator as Pride of Nations. From the game's wonderfull design to the great and immersive soundtrack, Pride of Nations makes you have a really immersive experience throughout the 19th century until the start of the 20th century, that no other game could match. While there are still many "what ifs" in Pride of Nations, they mostly stay within what "could have happened", what was realistically possible, it's much more appealing to those who want to feel the different situations that each one of the Great Powers of the Era faced, and not what I call "a generic 19th century experience", where everything is possible, like in V2.
To have the historical constraints of playing each power, you feel that you're really experiencing history rather than just playing a strategy game where "everything is possible to everyone", so if you play Russia, for instance, you have the world's largest army(and by the way one of the best soundtracks, second only to Germany in my humble opinion), but you have a backward country that needs to face with rebellions in your large but somehow not so "solid" empire, and it's a challenge to modernize the country to be able to properly supply it's large army. And then you have Germany, where you have a great potential, highly industrialized, very efficient army, high levels of literacy in the population, living a scientific golden age, but surrounded by many enemies, so you have to play your diplomacy carefully to not get overwhelmed by your enemies that surrounds you. So und so, it's a really great game and you won't regret a bit, having bought it.

I would, as always, advice you to buy the 1880 scenario if you would like to prepare yourself for a "great conflict", and in the 1880 scenario you're just ready for the new colonization race, and Europe is already set, so you'll find all the states there, like Italy and Germany, because in the 1850 scenario, "sometimes" the AI doesn't unify the countries so you end up not seeing Germany or Italy there, and it's frustrating for some (like me), besides there are some additions to the game in the 1880 scenario, I think there are some new models and so. In any case I'll be here to provide you with any help you might need, "just call my name and I'll be there..." :laugh:

Cheers.
"Das Glück hilft dem Kühnen."



German Empire PON 1880 AAR:http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?35152-German-Empire-not-quite-an-AAR

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