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PhilThib
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Thu May 10, 2007 7:36 am

...mmmhhh....guess ?! :sourcil:

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Cat Lord
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Tue Jun 05, 2007 1:26 pm

Korrigan wrote:Another Marvingardns contribution:

(About Diplomacy)
True.

Oh, so true !

Cat

kinghal
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Sun Jun 17, 2007 4:31 pm

Fantastic project

I really want to have the feeling of immersion into the game. One way that makes me 'feel' connected into the game is by having the AI challenge me with requests/offers/gifts/problems, basically, a dynamic diplomacy system that is asking me for help/advice/trade/tech etc. I just love it when the 'game' is treating me like a person and makes me wonder if thats a human being playing that country.

I also love dealing with naval issues...be they trade/embargo/transport/creation. One area that is most often never fully developed. And supply/demand issues on trade incorporated into the economy model. If I have the only oil field in the world, guess what? The world is gonna pay dearly for it.

And yes, Vicky is the one game I would most like to love but is so complicated that it was just a waste of money.

Imperialism2 still gets my play time..thats how elegant it is.

Mike
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Wow!

Sun Jun 17, 2007 5:56 pm

Well one of my all time favorite games was Pax Britannica. This is very interesting news. Looking forward to seeing this.

rederik
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Fri Jun 22, 2007 4:19 pm

It's some time that I don't read news around this game that interests a lot me, the development is proceeding or in this moment Napoleon's campaign has the priority? When will be published? I hope soon because i will surely buy it.

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Cat Lord
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Fri Jun 22, 2007 4:26 pm

You'll have to be patient:
PhilThib wrote:Vainglory of Nations is AGEOD's next major title (not before 2008) and has been already in development for some time.
:)

Cat

rederik
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Fri Jun 22, 2007 4:37 pm

I had read, however from February there have not been a lot of news. While they are now announcing this new napoleon's game that will be ready for Q4 2007 so or this project have more importance for them or it's a lighter and less complicated game.
I am impatient to fight the first world war, because in Victoria that I also appreciate very much it is never verified in the great campaign.

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Cat Lord
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Fri Jun 22, 2007 4:53 pm

rederik wrote:I had read, however from February there have not been a lot of news. While they are now announcing this new napoleon's game that will be ready for Q4 2007 so or this project have more importance for them or it's a lighter and less complicated game.
It's probably lighter: As they said, they will be no diplomacy, but the campaigns will be fought independantly from each other (more or less). So it's really using their current AI and Operationnal model on another theater of wars. Vainglory of nations, OTOH, will need many many more features aside their current engine. :)

Cat

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Pocus
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Fri Jun 22, 2007 6:33 pm

As Cat says... We are currently done with AGE generation II, and the Napoleonic game can be handled pretty well by all our rule sets (switchable). But VGN need a lot of works, and we will add a ton of new mechanisms here, making generation III of the engine.
Image


Hofstadter's Law: "It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's law."

blackhorse
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Looks Great..Will it do the Great War?

Sat Jun 23, 2007 3:29 pm

I am most excited about VGN (even more so than the Napoleonic title).

If it will be reasonably able to recreate the circumstances and outcomes of the Great War in the early 20th century, then you guys will have masterpiece (not that you don't already with AACW; this will then be ANOTHER masterpiece).

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PhilThib
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Sat Jun 23, 2007 5:18 pm

It will, no problem :indien:

rederik
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Sat Jun 23, 2007 6:15 pm

PhilThib wrote:It will, no problem :indien:


I hope that it will! Now i'm beginning to play with Birth of America because i've found it in boxed version only 2 weeks ago. I hope that your next games will arrive more quickly in Italy.
I like also Great Invasions but I have not understood it to the perfection yet.

blackhorse
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Sun Jun 24, 2007 1:44 pm

PhilThib wrote:It will, no problem :indien:


OMFG U GUYZ ROXOR w00t

:)

freeboy
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Wed Jun 27, 2007 4:18 am

In regard to complexity of diplomacy and economy. the more complex the better from my standpoint.

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bloodybucket
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Wed Jun 27, 2007 4:31 am

Mike wrote:Well one of my all time favorite games was Pax Britannica. This is very interesting news. Looking forward to seeing this.


Indeed. If this game is anything like Pax Britannica, then it will be excellent.

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PhilThib
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Wed Jun 27, 2007 6:07 am

For sure we want to capture some of the flavor of Pax Britanica, one of my favorite games too... and we'll fix (hopefully :siffle: ) some of its cumbersome points (wars!)...

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Anguille
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Wed Jun 27, 2007 12:06 pm

Well...what is sure now, i believe for the first time, the next games i am looking forward to buy in the next 2 years are coming from a single company, AGEOD! I love you guys :coeurs:

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Pdubya64
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Warning! Strategy game overload...

Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:28 pm

WOW :coeurs: I haven't been this excited since, oh, about the mid 1990s.

You see, most of the "corporate computer game industry" thinks us Turn-based Strategy Nuts[SIZE="1"] (hmm, I think I'll patent that...)[/size] have died or lost interest or... who knows what some of these clowns are thinking? :tournepas Ahem... :fleb: [SIZE="1"](jerks!)[/size]
Anyway, we didn't die or go away, we got older and gained a lot more DISPOSABLE INCOME! :nuts: ([SIZE="1"]good news for you AGEOD types!)[/size]

I wish it hasn't been so long since I had Imperialism (I and II). Queeg had some good points to make about it though, so I agree with what he said.
I also like the earlier comments about non-generic empires (flavour). No same same countries with copycat units with a different graphic please!


This is a good place to invoke the Godfather of Gaming, Sid Meier:

[SIZE="4"]Great games are all about giving players interesting choices...[/size]

[SIZE="1"]ps you guyz are 'da best! thanks for listening[/size]

typhoon
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Wed Jul 18, 2007 7:49 am

Seems that with you guys around the future is looking good for the kind of games I enjoy the most. Now for my list of wants needs (almost)

A good list of major players to choose from Britain Russia France Prussia the like (but no over doing this I do not want to make Albania into a world superpower in the Vic era).

Lots of personalities with various skill traits that can aid their parent nation

Economics a must politics also social change and unrest along with religion if at all possible.

maybe a number of campaigns for each nation introducing new elements to the game as you go leading to one grand Campaign with everything included

also types of conquest financial military cultural I think how a nation controls another should have significant consequences in this sort of game.

Many more things as well but for now the kids have got to taken to school and the news of this game has certainly cheered me up for the day.

Syagrius
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Wed Aug 15, 2007 6:32 pm

In addition to the already eight playable countries, it would be nice to add the Ottoman Empire, as it was one of the main actors during that time period.

Can't wait to play this game! :nuts:
Roma Aeterna Est

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Sol Invictus
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Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:24 am

I don't know why, but I always like playing the Ottomans in games, if they are available. I am not sure that would apply in this era though, because who wants to play "the sick man". Might be fun for a lark, but I imagine they would get kicked around alot. :turc:
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

"The fruit of too much liberty is slavery", Cicero

Omnius
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Sounds Interesting

Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:46 pm

I'm curious as to what is a "vicky" economic model? I don't think I've even heard of that game. I sure hope the AI's actually play the economic game smartly, something no other game with economics has achieved.

It looks like the USA would have the problem of a civil war thrown in. What happens then? Does the USA split and an AI take over the rebellious south? Is there a way to possibly avoid the civil war through politics?

I wouldn't extend the game to WW2 as that puts too much of a technology stretch to the game and I've never seen an AI that does the research game well. I don't want another game where the AI's stink at research and we humans outpace them and then have too much of a technological advantage.

I also hope that population becomes more dynamic. No static populations. Make populations that migrate as war comes to their regions or bad economic times.

I certainly hope that the game will be WEGO and not IGO-UGO turn based. I really enjoy the dynamic turn resolution of WEGO.

Make sure the AI can do anything in the game we humans can do. I really hate it when AI's are crippled because the programmers don't make the AI's capable of doing everything in the game.
Omnius

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Sol Invictus
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Thu Aug 16, 2007 3:18 pm

He was referring to the Paradox game Victoria. It has a very detailed; convoluted imo; economic model that many found bogged the game down in micro-management.

From the little hints we have, it sounds like the game will be divided into distinct wars, like Napoleon's Campaigns. So I would imagine some scenarios would be, The Austro-Prussian, Franco-Prussian, and Crimean Wars. ACW would also be a distict Scenario with possible English or French intervention. I would assume that the CSA would begin the scenario already in play.

However, Pocus did mention the possibility of a Campaign scenario that covers the entire Era. This would seem to require a different turn length than a distict war scenario. A Franco-Prussian War scenario might be something like two weeks per turn, while a Campaign would certainly be more like monthly turns at least. The Diplomatic AI would also need to be fairly robust for a Campaign game to be a possibility. I guess we will have to wait a bit to see how this all shakes out.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]



"The fruit of too much liberty is slavery", Cicero

General Quarters
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Fri Aug 17, 2007 1:52 am

Want: Turn-Based
Interesting strategic choices

Don't Want: Micromanagement ala Vicky

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Pocus
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Fri Aug 17, 2007 10:21 am

One of the feature of Victoria that we are not very fond of is the global market system, where you can pour your production ad nauseum, even if nobody would have bought it.
Image


Hofstadter's Law: "It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's law."

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Schmidt
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Re

Fri Aug 17, 2007 11:44 am

Hug,

Besoin d'un coup de main Pocus ?

Tu peux toujours compter sur moi d'ac ? Tu demandes je fais le maximum. As-toi de me demander. Mais entre nous j'en bave d'avance.... :sourcil:

Omnius
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Quantity versus Quality

Fri Aug 17, 2007 2:32 pm

My only concern with so many new titles being worked on is that the quality of each title will suffer with so much new quantity. I'd rather see less titles with better qulaity than a bunch of titles with lesser quality. It's nice that the AI will be bumped up to a new generation but will that truly mean it will be a better AI that finally allows the AI to utilize all of a game's features? I hope that it means that the AI will be improved step by step without having to go back to square one again.

I'm not too sure if a campaign game would really be worth playing as there is just too much of a technology gap between 1850 and 1920. I think it would be good for modeling various wars like the Franco Prussian one but that could be done better on a smaller mapscale and unitscale. Also the Civil War is already done in the Civil War game so that would kind of be a waste as the Civil War game would most likely protray that war better.
Omnius

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Queeg
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Fri Aug 17, 2007 11:07 pm

AGEOD has shown no difficulty in improving with each of its games. I see no reason for concern on that front.

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rogs
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wish list

Sun Aug 19, 2007 12:03 am

i don't think it matters much how complex the economic model is so long as it gives realistic results, and you shield the player from it.

victoria:revolutions finally did that in the end, if you are liberal capitalist you don't have micromanage your development anymore (although you still have to fiddle with pops)

i am keen to see the military system reflect the unpredictable impact of technology, and particularly that having technology doesn't mean you will necessarily use it correctly. paradox does this in HOI with its 'doctrines' system

eg, the consistent influence of the 'bayonet' school of thinking which had such terrible effects for russia in the crimea, austria in 1866 and 1914 and france in 1870 and1914. and austria had a 'firepower' doctrine until 1859 when it seemed to fail against the french 'bayonet' system!

austria would have done much better in 1866 even with its minie-type lorenz muzzle loading rifles if it had used the sort of tactics usual in the american civil war (ie use of cover, entrenchment, artillery and reliance on rifle fire), even against the needlegun. austria had plenty of artillery. massed bayonet charges in column were exactly the wrong tactic. in 1866 benedek even studied von daun's 7YW tactics but just didn't seem to get it (daun's system relied on firepower, entrenchment and massed artillery and humbled frederick in the later stages of the 7YW and the war of the bavarian succession).

contrast with the ACW, where neither side started with a large standing army, or strong doctrinal preconceptions, except a bias towards the latest weaponry, and an open minded approach to employing it. the british also had a similar approach, arising from a keen awareness of manpower limits compared to other major powers.

over the period, you basically see the breakdown of massed or skirmishing musketry and rifle fire in the open, via entrenchment, to the development in 1917 by german and australian tacticians of modern multirole infantry squads (2 rifles, machine gun, light mortar) using cover to advance independently and flexibly (offensive tactics being the challenge)

a trope on military effectiveness that is usually cited in favour of the american, UK, french and prussian military, is the high level of education of the other ranks (NCOs and below) compared to say the austrian, italian, russian and ottoman armies, which placed them at a disadvantage as micro-level infantry tactics became more and more complicated. not being able to read, or read a map, and having multilingual units, are major problems in such an environment. compounded by conservative states' delusions of chivalry and valour (austria lost most of its junior officer corps in 1914)

i hope the boer war / WW1 ascendancy of defence over offense is well modelled. a few concealed boers with hunting rifles on a hill were capable of holding off whole brigades of british guards indefinately! well at least until nightfall. and the WW1 situation is well known. victoria, even victoria: revolutions, really fails badly in this respect

on politics, i think victoria underestimates the resistance of aristocratic conservatives; it is too easy to turn countries like austria, prussia, russia and turkey into liberal capitalist democracies. just the click of a button. you have to be able to try to move in that direction if you are russia or turkey, or prussia or austria, but it shouldn't be easy. even in france it was tumultous and took a long time, and in britain the aristocrats dominated until the 20thC. the russians had barely industrialised even by 1914. i recently read that russian capital and infrastructure investment between 1914 and 1917 far exceeded that of the entire preceeding century.

and finally, please keep up the good work on the graphics. Ageod's ACW is beautiful, and Napoleon's Campaigns screenshots look just as nice!

tagwyn
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Sun Aug 19, 2007 4:57 am

Phillipe: I don't like the game to be overloaded with managing the economy i.e. Vicky? I won't buy it if it looks like that. Larry

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