Vainglory of Nations

[Pocus]

Our aim is not to complexify things, for each new game done. In VGN, you will have to manage economy and commerce, among others things, but it does not means this will be overly complex. And some aspects will be streamlined and simplified, the military one for example (you won't play Axis&Allies either, rest assured!)

[Syagrius]

Phillipe: I don't like the game to be overloaded with managing the economy i.e. Vicky? I won't buy it if it looks like that. Larry

Hey Tagwyn, we doesnt see you anymore on the Wargamer forum?? For sure I appreciated your "potatoe head" blast and others against bboyer

[Generalisimo]

Phillipe: I don't like the game to be overloaded with managing the economy i.e. Vicky? I won't buy it if it looks like that. Larry

This is not suposed to be a "Vicky clone"... so, don't get confussed with that.
It just covers the same era... but it is a completelly different game with a different approach.

[tagwyn]

Generalissimo: Longblade kicked me off the forum. I guess Bboyer666 was one the fan boys? They won't let me back on. tag

[Dilettante]

What I'd be looking for from this kind of game:

* Very little micromanagement! Thank you.
* A much bigger emphasis on diplomacy than war - war should be because of the inability to compromise, not the first option players think of - and peace should not be about land only, but about all kinds of issues from trading rights to the Holy Roman Empire. Empires at Arms has a great peace system for the 19th century!
* Themes from the period...so many games (Imperialism, Victoria...) from this genre tend to make it into a wargame with muskets and horses. There should be a real emphasis on the Balance of Power in Europe, on international agreements and conferences, and on the great powers working against social change, nationalism and revolution.
* Distinct National Identities - I want the game to feel very different if I play AH than if I play Britain! They should have totally different economies, goals, problems, wars...

Looking forward to seeing what you can do with this sadly-neglected genre...

[JackoWords]

I just wanted to chime in and add my voice to:

1) Emphasis on Diplomacy. I would like to see the perceived balance of power, its importance, and the importance of the ever ephemeral prestige very prominent in the game.

2) Grand Campaign. While I do enjoy focused scenarios, such as Birth of America and the Civil War, I vastly prefer longer games where I can set my own goals and see the world develop around me.

[RELee]

As a true lover of Victoria, I'm also looking forward to this game.

My suggestion:

When the ACW hits in the campaign, allow the player to choose the side he or she would like to play.

[Luis de Aveiro]

I'm glad the AGE system is developing this way. I hope in the near future we can mod VoN (Vanglory of Nations) so that at least all the minor powers can also be played.
I personally would like to be able to defend the portuguese african historical possessions against the insidious brits

[Narakir]

Another fan of Victoria highly expecting this game that already looks fantastic.

Few suggestions/questions :

- It'll be nice if some regional/secondary powers will be playable, nations like Mexico, Brazil, Spain, Portugal, Argentina, China, Netherlands, Belgium, the Ottoman Empire.

- A hotseat multiplayer option.

- Less micromanagement as in Vicky, more diplomatic/political/economic tricks than wars.

- Does politics will take an important role like as in Vicky ?

- Does the game will have separate scenars like other AGOED games but this time for different history events ? like Crimean war, Russo-Japanesse war, WW1, American civil war, begining of colonialism etc...

[tyrex]

I'll surely skip this one. I've no great interest in the period. I'll wait for the next one

[Pocus]

Another fan of Victoria highly expecting this game that already looks fantastic.

Few suggestions/questions :

- It'll be nice if some regional/secondary powers will be playable, nations like Mexico, Brazil, Spain, Portugal, Argentina, China, Netherlands, Belgium, the Ottoman Empire.

We are focusing our historical researches and the game design too on major nations. We don't want to have the player take a pacific principality or an independent Greenland and conquer the world. But there won't be any hardcoding, you could activate more nations that the ones proposed, but not from the main interface. Note also some 'uncivilized' nations will be grouped for simplicity sake.

- A hotseat multiplayer option.

no promise on this one.

- Less micromanagement as in Vicky, more diplomatic/political/economic tricks than wars.

planned yes, you will have ample things to do before even considering going to war.

- Does politics will take an important role like as in Vicky ?

A more important role even, you will have to handle Crisis between major nations.

- Does the game will have separate scenars like other AGOED games but this time for different history events ? like Crimean war, Russo-Japanesse war, WW1, American civil war, begining of colonialism etc...

yes, a grand campaign, but smaller, focused campaigns are planned, depending of our time and the commitment of our historical researchers

[Pocus]

Without divulgating the mass of uniforms we have already received from our artists, here is an example of the quality of the animations you will get in the game.

[morvael]

It's a pity the game ends in 1920, not in for example 1925 so one could play the period in which Poland was reborn and fought Soviet Russia 1919-1921...

[Pocus]

There is no hard coded set date, what we don't want is a game which bite too much on the pre- WW2 era. But doing 1919-1921 with the system planned is definitively doable, we will just need someone gathering the infos for us. You volunteers?

[morvael]

Although my favourite historical period is the 1792-1831 and I have a ton of books about it, I could gather some data about the war with Soviet Russia just after WW1. I already have a great book about Polish army in that period. What would you need? It all depends on the ammount and type of data you need. Actually does the engine already covers the creation of independed states after German collapse in 1918?

[Henry D.]

Without divulgating the mass of uniforms we have already received from our artists, here is an example of the quality of the animations you will get in the game.

If You ever make a Grand Strategy game in the late medieval/early modern period time-frame, I want animated DRAGONS in the remote corners of the map, You hear me?

Regards, Henry

[Pocus]

Although my favourite historical period is the 1792-1831 and I have a ton of books about it, I could gather some data about the war with Soviet Russia just after WW1. I already have a great book about Polish army in that period. What would you need? It all depends on the ammount and type of data you need. Actually does the engine already covers the creation of independed states after German collapse in 1918?

Well we would need the complete starting positions, and some detailed knowledge of alliances and friendlyness levels of surrounding nations (and which one could intervene, with the forces possibly used) for a scenario focused on military operations.

[Rafiki]

If You ever make a Grand Strategy game in the late medieval/early modern period time-frame, I want animated DRAGONS in the remote corners of the map, You hear me?

I'll second this!

[morvael]

Well we would need the complete starting positions, and some detailed knowledge of alliances and friendlyness levels of surrounding nations (and which one could intervene, with the forces possibly used) for a scenario focused on military operations.

Maybe there would be one problem with the scenario that during this war there were more than two sides and almost all fought against all others.

List of conflicts:
Poland vs Czechoslovakia 1919 (defending Cieszyn region)
Poland vs Germany 1918-1921 (Great Poland Uprising, three Silesian Uprisings)
Poland vs Lithuania 1920 (conflict over Wilno region)
Poland vs West Ukrainian People's Republic 1918-1919 (over Lwow region)
Baltic States vs Soviet Russia 1918-1920
Ukraine vs Soviet Russia 1918-1921
And of course the biggest two:
Poland vs Soviet Russia 1919-1921
dozen of factions incl. some Allied troops vs Soviet Russia 1917-1923 (Russian Civil War)

So it's a tought nut to crack but it's partially covered by the dates you have revealed so pushing them 2-3 years forward would allow to play those conflicts in full, not only the first half But of course it's quite difficult to get good info about all armies involved, because they were organized ad-hoc at that time since most nations didn't exist before 1918...

[PhilThib]

It's a pity the game ends in 1920, not in for example 1925 so one could play the period in which Poland was reborn and fought Soviet Russia 1919-1921...

A good number of players have suggested that ACW could 'easily' be adapted into a Russian Civil War era game.... that mostly true...and could be done in a few months, provided:

1 - We have someone willing to spend 2 months searching and building the DBs and OOBs
2 - We find 30,000 $ to pay the artist who shall do the work of creating the map, the interface and the units... (4 months of work)
3 - I find 1 month of free time to supervise the project (hardest)

Philippe

[jmlo]

good news !!!

[Pocus]

And there is always the need for new code, so you can add that in the expenses too.

[morvael]

Unfortunately I don't qualify for this kind of long work as I rarely have free time to spare so I would propably disappoint you - I don't want to make false promises. Also I'm not an expert in this era.

On the other hand if you have something concerning Poland in Vainglory of Nations or (especially) in Napoleon's Campaigns I could review it and maybe if there would be some not-quite-historical simplifications or spelling errors I could help you to get rid of them. Things like Kosciuszko leading army of Duchy de Varsovie in EU3: NA are killing me when I see them... (Kosciuszko lived through the period of Napoleon's Campaigns but was against Napoleon using Poles as cannon fodder thus never agreed to lead Polish army fighting for Bonaparte).

Of course from a perspective of western gamers propably it doesn't matter at all. It's just the question whether you like to be as close to history as possible in as many aspects of the game as possible or only on the major ones.

[monkeyx]

Hi to you all, new to this forum but have played wargames for many years. Really looking forward to VGN, but like the rest of you - no new Vicky!

My question to the design team is can this game cover the Napoleonic period - please. Either in the core game or as a later scenario expansion. This would be fantastic and I believe fully supported in the gaming community.

BTW Napoleon's Campaign looks great. Best of luck.

[PhilThib]

In my opinion, there is no real interest in covering the Napoleonic era with such an engine... we would miss our target on both counts, as the engine would not meet the level of military details required for a good Napoleonic game and the economic and social engine would be 'too much' for the same...

Our plan is rather to quickly produce after VGN a Napoleonic Game that would build on the success of the upcoming Napoleon's Campaigns and include all engine improvements and new rules that VGN will generate...

So the answer is both yes and no

[Tirailleur]

Our plan is rather to quickly produce after VGN a Napoleonic Game that would build on the success of the upcoming Napoleon's Campaigns and include all engine improvements and new rules that VGN will generate...

So the answer is both yes and no

Wow, did you ever have free time? apy:
Not that I have anything against it, that you produce an outstanding game after another. But I have never seen this development of good games in such a short time before.

[Beren]

In my opinion, there is no real interest in covering the Napoleonic era with such an engine

if you are talking about gamers this is a BIG mistake... start a poll and you will see

[arsan]

Hi!

It would be great if Philippe Thibaut could clarify what he means with this. It’s a little worrying… leure:

Because i think a lot of players (me included) see NCP mostly as a first step (necessary for economic reasons) to the definitive Napoleonic game we are all dreaming of, with full campaign, multiple playable countries and a lot of diplomacy involved.

I´m not asking for a napoleonic game with convoluted social engineering like Victoria or complex production and world market systems. And I don’t ask for a game on wich I can play Morrocco or Japan and conquer half the map like on the Europa Universalis.

I would like something much more historically and military oriented, where you can play the main European powers, and use your money, production, manpower and diplomacy.
Similar to AACW but with diplomacy, several playable countries who interact between them, and a little more production/economic possibilities.

Something like a Crown of Glory game “done right” and with the AGEOD engine.

I hope something like this is what Phillipe means with the second Napoleon game that will come after VGN.

But I don’t understand what he means about the “no interest” part.
IMHO, the revolutionary/Napoleonic era is much much much more interesting than the Victorian one!!
And I think it will be a shame if that great era just received a partial attention by AGEOD with a game like NCP wich only have independent scenarios.

Maybe it’s because we don´t know how the VGN engine will be and what kind of improvements it can generate for a possible NCP2

Cheers!!

[monkeyx]

Hi

There is a lot of support for a strategic Nappy game. EU3 appeared to miss the mark and was too generic covering a massive time period. Crown of Glory lacked any feel for the period and EIA (well we are still waiting).

I think one of the problems is the time period is very short for a strategic game and perhaps does not lend its self to this period ie little development in terms of scientific progress etc. Although I believe this can be worked around.
Anyway it looks as if its in the pipeline chaps!

[Pocus]

http://www.ageod-forum.com/showpost.php?p=51109&postcount=8