Vainglory of Nations

[Jojo le Gouffy]

Euh...j'avais simplement posé la question parce que j'avais des doutes sur le sens de vain en anglais (qui pouvait dire prétentieux).
Il me semblait que le titre devait répondre en lui-même à deux exigences
a) une synthèse du mouvement historique propre à la période traitée par le jeu ce qui n'est pas évident.
b) un jugement moral concernant ce mouvement (ce qui expliquerait le vain)

A cela, il faut ajouter les contraintes du marketing (la gloriole c'est rigolo mais pas vendeur) et les éventuels copyright pour des titres déjà utilisés.

Et puis peut-on changer le titre aussi radicalement pour une simple question de traduction française ?

[bbriley]

In that case, how about 'The age of Imperialism' or 'L'âge de l'impérialisme' since that is what the era from 1850-1914 is usually called.

The Age of Imperialism is catchy and yet summarizes the era. It is true that it led to the shock of WW I, but I'd hate to focus on the negative. So Chris's title is the most brief and catchy of what I've heard. I.e., The Age of Imperialism (an era that began to crumble right after WW I).

[PhilThib]

Can't use this, was used already by previous games... leure:

[bbriley]

Can't use this (Birth of Empires), was used already by previous games... leure:

I have already heard some earlier, catchy titles. Also, how about:
Rise of Nationalism (not Rise of Nations, of course)
The Move to Nationalism
The Developing Conflicts (i.e., culminating in WW I)
A World of Ambitions

And - take a vote, as someone else suggested, but in two stages: 1) a vote among all the title candidates proposed, followed by 2) a vote amongst the final three top candidates, with AGEOD of course making the final decision, regardless of the election, since the AGEOD team has the most at stake, by far.

[Chris Stavros]

Can't use this, was used already by previous games... leure:

Hmm, ok.

How about 'Of Nations and Empires' which is a nice sounding 'Des nations et des empires' in French?

[Cat Lord]

"Vainglory of Nations" is a perfect title, please, do not change it.

Translating it is slightly more difficult, but shouldn't be impossible.

"Vanité des Nations" n'est pas une traduction exacte, mais n'est pas complètement à côté ("Vanité & Gloire des Nations" non plus, garde l'acronyme et sonne très bien).

En plus c'est l'ethymologie "vaine gloire" du vieux français qui a donné le mot anglais.

Cat

[Lascar]

"Vainglory of Nations" is a perfect title, please, do not change it.

Translating it is slightly more difficult, but shouldn't be impossible.

"Vanité des Nations" n'est pas une traduction exacte, mais n'est pas complètement à côté ("Vanité & Gloire des Nations" non plus, garde l'acronyme et sonne très bien).

En plus c'est l'ethymologie "vaine gloire" du vieux français qui a donné le mot anglais.

Cat

I agree, Vainglory of Nations is a fine title and a succinct commentary on the hubris of 19th century European imperialism.

[PhilThib]

*guess why I chose this one

[Chris Stavros]

Which one?

[Pocus]

I agree, Vainglory of Nations is a fine title and a succinct commentary on the hubris of 19th European imperialism.

See, if someone can pull out a sentence like that, then he don't have to look into the dictionnary for the definition of vain or vainglory.

[bbriley]

See, if someone can pull out a sentence like that, then he don't have to look into the dictionnary for the definition of vain or vainglory.

Amen. I cannot speak to the French commentary or translation of "vainglory," but Lascar's succinct statement referred to by Pocus was excellent. Vainglory does imply a recognition of the hubris in several nations in Europe that set the stage for the 1914-18 conflagration. So, the AGEOD team's title carries the day, at least for me. An excellent book about the posturing that led to the war - and the early days of the war - was The Guns of August, by Barbara Tuchmann.

[Queeg]

Vainglory of Nations is a great title.

[jdifool76]

Maybe you should call it the Age of High Hopes. Anyway I think Vainglory of Nations fits nicely although it emphasizes the negative side of things. If we exclude the brief wars of unification, the Civil War and the various conflicts in balkans and of course the World War, it was a rather peacefull era ... in the white man's world at least.

[Le Ricain]

"Vainglory of Nations" is a perfect title, please, do not change it.

Translating it is slightly more difficult, but shouldn't be impossible.

"Vanité des Nations" n'est pas une traduction exacte, mais n'est pas complètement à côté ("Vanité & Gloire des Nations" non plus, garde l'acronyme et sonne très bien).

En plus c'est l'ethymologie "vaine gloire" du vieux français qui a donné le mot anglais.

Cat

+1 - "Vanité & Gloire des Nations"

As Cat succinctly points out, the acronym, VGN, is preserved with both the English and French titles.

[tagwyn]

How about: "The Vanity of Nations?" Don't know the French translation of that but most of the games are sold to English speakers anyway. T

[Paul Roberts]

Vainglory of Nations is a great title.

I agree. An excellent title!

[heckler_rider]

Who cares what it is called as long as its fun! Would the following title changes have impacted the quality and fun of these games...

BOA = Tea Hating Rebellious Upstarts versus Wig Wearing Overbearing Imperialists

NCP = Vertically Challenged Guy versus the World

AACW = Good Ole' Boys versus Money Grubbing Industrialists

The answer is NO!

Let's go with Vainglory of Nations and stop wasting resources on this debate....

What I would like to see

grand campaign - more turns the better

somewhat detailed military structure - corps level is just to bland for me, I can't get emotionally attached to the IV Corps, but give me the 4th Royal Irish Gragoon Guards and I'm in heaven. Seriously, you need some flavor for the military - generic units dont cut it. I think corps level is also to high, many of the more famous battles were fought with smaller forces.

[DennyWright]

Wasting resources? This thread died two weeks ago...

[marcusjm]

Irish Gragoons. Is that what they are called after too many pints? .
I agree about accuracy. I also want lots of detail on the "Important" colonies. Accurate portrayal of India and all it's factions for instance.

[Commander Cody]

How is this game coming along? Can we get an update? I for one am looking forward to an excellent game on this era.

One thing that was dismal in Vicky was the naval sector. Here are some ideas:

1. Ships should require access to ports to go very far distances. However, as access to neutral and allied ports was common at the time, it shouldn't be too hard to have access to ports not in your direct possession (obviously, if you are shunned by the world due to bad boy behavior access to neutral ports might suffer).
2. Military threats should accomplish real objectives. Perry's black ships opened up Japan to trade. The threat of force in this case opened up diplomatic opportunities, so this this should be modeled in the diplomatic engine.
3. Port calls with impressive fleets should bolster diplomatic opportunities as well (through increased prestige or a like mechanism). The voyage of Teddy Roosevelt's Great White Fleet served notice that the U.S. was a new power to be reckoned with.
4. The number of ship types should be increased, and scrapping should be encouraged by increasing the maintenance cost of older ships over time.

I am a big fan of AGEod and hope you can pick up where Paradox left off and create a masterpiece.

Cheers, CC

[Queeg]

How is this game coming along? Can we get an update? I for one am looking forward to an excellent game on this era.

One thing that was dismal in Vicky was the naval sector. Here are some ideas:

1. Ships should require access to ports to go very far distances. However, as access to neutral and allied ports was common at the time, it shouldn't be too hard to have access to ports not in your direct possession (obviously, if you are shunned by the world due to bad boy behavior access to neutral ports might suffer).
2. Military threats should accomplish real objectives. Perry's black ships opened up Japan to trade. The threat of force in this case opened up diplomatic opportunities, so this this should be modeled in the diplomatic engine.
3. Port calls with impressive fleets should bolster diplomatic opportunities as well (through increased prestige or a like mechanism). The voyage of Teddy Roosevelt's Great White Fleet served notice that the U.S. was a new power to be reckoned with.
4. The number of ship types should be increased, and scrapping should be encouraged by increasing the maintenance cost of older ships over time.

I am a big fan of AGEod and hope you can pick up where Paradox left off and create a masterpiece.

Cheers, CC

Very good ideas all.

[Martial-law]

Hi Phillipe,



I am anxiously waiting to hear any news about the game. Please inform. Also I would suggest adding the population system to this game like the one in Victoria; mentioning the cultural groups/religious groups their political tendencies etc. in pie charts. Also like in Victoria the populations should immigrate and emigrate however I would also request you to add one more thing which Victoria lacks; give the player more control over the immigration/emigration of the population of their countries/empires. Please also inform about this. Also as for a catchy name for this game how about the "Rise of Imperialism"? Please inform. Thanks.

[PhilThib]

We are not sure for the time being that we want to let the players control emigration or immigration. The game shall not go where Victoria went...and failed... managing the population in details is not the aim of VGN.

We will have a good population model, and emigration will be in (via scripted events and some part of the engine), but the main focus of the game shall not be there

[Chris Stavros]

I hope that there will be immigration to the Americas as actually happened in the period.

[Adam the VIth]

Very good ideas all.

As an Eu III player, Vicky player, player of all AGEOD games, and naval enthusiast, I wholly concur with these comments.

Coaling was critical, but you did not need a friendly port to coal.

It's called "gunboat diplomacy" for a reason.

Go AGEOD!

Oh, name of game is GREAT!

[Adam the VIth]

How is this game coming along? Can we get an update? I for one am looking forward to an excellent game on this era.

One thing that was dismal in Vicky was the naval sector. Here are some ideas:

1. Ships should require access to ports to go very far distances. However, as access to neutral and allied ports was common at the time, it shouldn't be too hard to have access to ports not in your direct possession (obviously, if you are shunned by the world due to bad boy behavior access to neutral ports might suffer).
2. Military threats should accomplish real objectives. Perry's black ships opened up Japan to trade. The threat of force in this case opened up diplomatic opportunities, so this this should be modeled in the diplomatic engine.
3. Port calls with impressive fleets should bolster diplomatic opportunities as well (through increased prestige or a like mechanism). The voyage of Teddy Roosevelt's Great White Fleet served notice that the U.S. was a new power to be reckoned with.
4. The number of ship types should be increased, and scrapping should be encouraged by increasing the maintenance cost of older ships over time.

I am a big fan of AGEod and hope you can pick up where Paradox left off and create a masterpiece.

Cheers, CC

As an Eu III player, Vicky player, player of all AGEOD games, and naval enthusiast, I wholly concur with these comments.

Coaling was critical, but you did not need a friendly port to coal.

It's called "gunboat diplomacy" for a reason.

Go AGEOD!

Oh, name of game is GREAT!

[Robert E. Lee]

We are not sure for the time being that we want to let the players control emigration or immigration. The game shall not go where Victoria went...and failed... managing the population in details is not the aim of VGN.

Thank you....Vicky gives me so much headaches sometimes...

[DirkX]

We are not sure for the time being that we want to let the players control emigration or immigration. The game shall not go where Victoria went...and failed... managing the population in details is not the aim of VGN.

We will have a good population model, and emigration will be in (via scripted events and some part of the engine), but the main focus of the game shall not be there

hooray!
i stopped playing vicky because of beeing totally inable to understand the "pop" model.

[Grouchy Marx]

Is it supposed to be able to model properly the Great War ? If true, I would love to see two things :

- Be able to see the spread of communist and anarchist ideologies and how they may make a whole country collapse. With real algorithms by opposition with a string of events concluding to the foregone collapse of Russia. For example, if France falls and economic performance of UK has been shaky throughout the game, it may collapse and become communist.

- If empires such as the II. Reich, Austria-Hungary, Russia or Ottoman Empire collapse, get a lot of chrome about internal political events (It may be difficult to simulate day-to-day events, but I would love that)

Many thanks for asking us what we would like to see.

[Philippe]

Vainglory of Nations is a pretty good title and I rather like it. But if I had to propose an alternative, I would suggest "Blood and Iron" in honor of Bismark. The real title, of course, would be "Blut und Eisen", but that would only show up in mods or in the German market. But I'm sure someone, somewhere, must already be using this.

[edited because I've been looking at too much WW II material lately and Iron and Honor start with the same letter in German]