PON Latest patch 1.03e and public beta 1.04 RC 2 (updated June 20th)

[cwegsche]

Hi all!

I think that wool/cotton, which should come from trade posts to your national stockpile, does still not sum up into the stockpile! Playing as Britian you get the message every turn that loads of wool/cotton come from your trade posts (as other goods come too) but wool/cotton don`t sum up in the pool I'm sure there ... every other good does for example. Playing as France or Prussia I experience the same with just wool/cotton as not being able to add to the national stockpile, while every other good does ...
This has been discussed before and should have been adressed but I think it somehow managed to get off the list :-)
Tried to fix it myself but screwed up eventually :-( Perhaps someone who has more knowledge of the system can do ...

Btw. I'm playing the latest version 1.04RC2

Cheers Chris

[Lindi]

I try install the first link and after the other link, and after that I lose some picture is normal?

[ajnatalo]

Just wondering. Has anyone figured out how to assault cities? I have units in Assault posture on all out attack in a region that I'm at war with, and they won't besiege or assault the city. I know this was common when RC2 was released. Just wondering if anyone knows a workaround.

[loki100]

I find you need red-red as you stances, otherwise the attack won't happen.

There is a second issue in that an assault will not happen if there is another country's force in the province. Not sure if this applies if you are allied but in my war with Austria, I suffered from herds of Prussians wandering around getting in the way (they were at war with GB and I think trying to reach Malta ...). I ended up writing a script to send them all back to Berlin and stop cluttering up my war.

[ajnatalo]

Went red-red and still issues. I'm trying to take Kuching as Japan from the natives, no other forces that I see. Could the fact that I've built up loyalty with bribe/treaties cause a problem. The population is 55% loyal to me already so is it possible this is causing the game to think i'm in friendly territory? Thats my best guess as to why red-red still won't let me take the city.

[loki100]

Went red-red and still issues. I'm trying to take Kuching as Japan from the natives, no other forces that I see. Could the fact that I've built up loyalty with bribe/treaties cause a problem. The population is 55% loyal to me already so is it possible this is causing the game to think i'm in friendly territory? Thats my best guess as to why red-red still won't let me take the city.

shouldn't be relevant, or you'd have problems retaking one of your own towns that was lost in a war.

it should not be a feature in PoN, but sometimes the CinC stack won't attack a fortified position in other AGEOD games if there is another friendly stack in the province. So maybe try and consolidate all your attackers into one stack.

I suspect there maybe something else in the province. One way to check this is to look in the .hst file - run a search on the province and you'll find what is in there - both your own force and if there is any other army (probably a small irregular unit). But all this is guessing.

You could upload a save and someone maybe able to take a look at it - If I have the time I will, but no promises as to when (too many work based deadlines at the moment)

[Christophe.Barot]

Transactions and commerce screens are slower as economy develop, but I doubt they are slower in 1850 in this patch compared to previous ones.

point is not here,is that in version 1.03 (russian endgame for me), they were almost immediate
in 1.04 lag is such game becomes unplayable (had to deinstall, reinstall with last 1.03 fix, could really no longer play, B and F4 became unusable, and they are irrepleacable tools) - waiting 10-15 minutes interturn is managable - a lag in minutes (or even 30second) EACH click for managing economy is not

please, can you plan to correct the lag for next patch, is really a killer, prevents to benefit from further improvements (I don't know if you notice on your computer, as I guess you develop with a powerful PC)

cheers

Christophe

[Kensai]

Pocus, can we have a link to the latest updated database values and spreadsheets you use? I believe I have fairly old versions of all files (events, etc). I really want to see v1.04 (when released) to have every possible reported problem fixed (or at least pinpointed so we can do it ourselves in the files). To this I include sagji's notes about some broken tech tree upgrade chains, etc. If you give us a timetable of the potential release I could freeze my AAR until then to dedicate into updating the structure-unit-card pools for every major nation (and at least the 20-25 protagonists) as well as some other balancing stuff that might come out of it. Oh, and make events for the leaders quotas that get updated every ten years, as per your initial notes.


Also, a quick crash course on where each event saves its values and, especially graphics, would be ideal. I would really like to create custom events with decisions, etc. If you don't have time to do a complete guide, tell me which specific "educational" events I should study in PON, and how these are linked-read.

[ajnatalo]

Here is my Japan game where the assault on Kuching isn't happening. The hst file doesn't show any forces in Kuching except mine. If you run turns, you'll see military control goes up to 100 and yet the city won't be taken. So again, if anyone knows how to get troops in 1.04 rc2 to take cities, love to find out.

[Kensai]

Has anyone tested this? Sorry I did not do it myself, but I am working on my Mod and some other "realism options" and I need a stable base.

[loki100]

There are also some techs that have no effect - these are techs that have no effects of their own, and all the techs they are precursors for are also on the list.

Can't find an effect for 321-Air Superiority or for any tech that requires it
Can't find an effect for 34-Balliste or for any tech that requires it
Can't find an effect for 27-Barbettes or for any tech that requires it
Can't find an effect for 80-Depth Charge or for any tech that requires it
Can't find an effect for 87-Dreadnought or for any tech that requires it
Can't find an effect for 250-Electric Telegraph or for any tech that requires it
Can't find an effect for 49-Electrical Mounts or for any tech that requires it
Can't find an effect for 306-Expanded Reserve or for any tech that requires it
Can't find an effect for 7-Explosive Shells or for any tech that requires it
Can't find an effect for 300-French 75 Model or for any tech that requires it
Can't find an effect for 322-Giulio Douhet or for any tech that requires it
Can't find an effect for 43-Heavy Caliber Guns III or for any tech that requires it
Can't find an effect for 44-Heavy Caliber Guns IV or for any tech that requires it
Can't find an effect for 11-Hospital Ships or for any tech that requires it
Can't find an effect for 262-Infiltration or for any tech that requires it
Can't find an effect for 257-Ivan Bloch or for any tech that requires it
Can't find an effect for 298-Krupp or for any tech that requires it
Can't find an effect for 263-Low Echelon Fire Support or for any tech that requires it
Can't find an effect for 324-Military Airplanes or for any tech that requires it
Can't find an effect for 0-Muzzle loaded smoothbore or for any tech that requires it
Can't find an effect for 211-New synchronization techniques or for any tech that requires it
Can't find an effect for 415-Panama Canal or for any tech that requires it
Can't find an effect for 33-Poudre B or for any tech that requires it
Can't find an effect for 238-Sere de Rivieres or for any tech that requires it
Can't find an effect for 179-Skyscrapers or for any tech that requires it
Can't find an effect for 5-Steam Frigates or for any tech that requires it
Can't find an effect for 412-Suez Canal or for any tech that requires it
Can't find an effect for 95-Torpedo planes or for any tech that requires it
Can't find an effect for 189-Underground rail systems or for any tech that requires it
Can't find an effect for 68-Zone of Immunity or for any tech that requires it

HI Sagji, sorry to respond rather late but I've been working on trying to understand problems with the 1900 techs, esp the non-appearing dreadnoughts.

but there is at least one error in your list - Hospital ships generates a unit of that type that you can build

Now Dreadnougjts, I think I've caught the flaw:

If we look at BBO6 (ie the 1900 Dreadnought), we see:

UID = 4750
Alias = uni_GBR_BB06
NationTag = GBR
Name = Battleship Squadron
ShortName = Battleship Squadron
Text = $uni_txt_CMN_BB1_Battleship_Squadron
Color = $colGBRNavy
DoubleLength = 1
ModelType0 = $mdl_GBR_BB06|4
BuildAttributes = *HeavyShipbuilding*
TechAutoUpg = $uni_GBR_BB07
FamilyType0 = $famLightWarship|4
CmdCost = 2
Pillage = 0
BuildRule = $recHarbor
BuildWeight = 25
CustomNames = 1st Battle Division|2nd Battle Division|3rd Battle Division|4th Battle Division|5th Battle Division|6th Battle Division|7th Battle Division|8th Battle Division|9th Battle Division|10th Battle Division|11th Battle Division|12th Battle Division|13th Battle Division|14th Battle Division|15th Battle Division|16th Battle Division|17th Battle Division|18th Battle Division|19th Battle Division|20th Battle Division|21st Battle Division|22nd Battle Division|23rd Battle Division|24th Battle Division|25th Battle Division|26th Battle Division|27th Battle Division|28th Battle Division|29th Battle Division|30th Battle Division|

that is the British one, same apart from unit names for the other majors. Now the Super-Dreadnought (ie the 1910 tech) has one key line different:

FamilyType0 = $famHvyWarship|4

I *think* that is the key, the BB06 tries to use

$famLightWarship|4

, I'm going to recode all the relevant entries and generate the cache to see if that deals with the gap. Now to look at airplanes

Edit:

a wee bit out of my depth, but on checking in models, none of Dreadnought, air recon, air bomb, air fight, air sep, airships or airfield, have any activation tech (all are 'Null'), but then so are a lot of techs, like every generation of battleships from 1-5 (and I know they all work, so is 'activated by' of any real importance?)

[Kensai]

I wish sagji's tool was in the hands of Pocus. Or Pocus had a similar one. This will indeed speed up things in the few remaining database errors. This is the most difficult part of hiccups to eradicate cause it might only be a single line that changes or breaks the whole upgrade sequence. I suspect there are some issues in the sequence to make obsolete older techs, unless it was a problem of the PBEM (which was started with a very early release of the game). I really could understand why some nations had for example to build 3 types of the same (say commercial ships) of the same generation (ie, the button appeared three times), instead of combining their force pool into one and keeping the UI sleek.

[Tach]

Not entirely certain this is the right place but since I'm running 1.04rc2 I'd put it here.

I'm assaulting Richmond. Day 1, assault goes in, all 7 defending elements destroyed. Yay, thinks I. Day 2, assault takes place again, 1 defending militia element which promptly gets squashed. Ok, perhaps it moved in from an adjacent region and being so small, I didn't see it. Day 6, the same thing happens, 1 defending militia element. Day 7, another single defending militia element. Day 9, 2 defending militia elements. Day 11, 1 element. Day 13, 1 element. Day 14, 2 elements. End result is that Richmond is still Confederate and I'm wondering where all these militia are coming from.

The following turn, I switched to assault - all out attack (red/red). Same thing happens, every couple of days, one or two militia elements spawn and immediately get squashed. Again, turn ends with Richmond still in Confederate hands, my army is slowly bleeding to death (loss of cohesion and a few casualties) and more importantly, the confederate army nearby that prompted the assault has now recovered.

So, is this WAD or a bug? I think I remember reading a thread about instantly spawning defenders, but can't find it.

Edit: found it, Kensai seemed to be saying that if you fail to take the objective, they would respawn the garrison, but surely if I have annihilated the defenders, I should take the objective and not have them respawn repeatedly within the same turn?

[Lemoni]

Not entirely certain this is the right place but since I'm running 1.04rc2 I'd put it here.

I'm assaulting Richmond. Day 1, assault goes in, all 7 defending elements destroyed. Yay, thinks I. Day 2, assault takes place again, 1 defending militia element which promptly gets squashed. Ok, perhaps it moved in from an adjacent region and being so small, I didn't see it. Day 6, the same thing happens, 1 defending militia element. Day 7, another single defending militia element. Day 9, 2 defending militia elements. Day 11, 1 element. Day 13, 1 element. Day 14, 2 elements. End result is that Richmond is still Confederate and I'm wondering where all these militia are coming from.

The following turn, I switched to assault - all out attack (red/red). Same thing happens, every couple of days, one or two militia elements spawn and immediately get squashed. Again, turn ends with Richmond still in Confederate hands, my army is slowly bleeding to death (loss of cohesion and a few casualties) and more importantly, the confederate army nearby that prompted the assault has now recovered.

So, is this WAD or a bug? I think I remember reading a thread about instantly spawning defenders, but can't find it.

Edit: found it, Kensai seemed to be saying that if you fail to take the objective, they would respawn the garrison, but surely if I have annihilated the defenders, I should take the objective and not have them respawn repeatedly within the same turn?

Οκ .And how do you take the objective? I cannot understand take the objective

[Tach]

By take the objective, I mean capture the city (so Richmond in this case), but in the other thread it is colonial buildings, or forts, or ports. Basically whatever I am assaulting.

[loki100]

By take the objective, I mean capture the city (so Richmond in this case), but in the other thread it is colonial buildings, or forts, or ports. Basically whatever I am assaulting.

can you double check the version you are on - this does sound like the bug that was squashed with the 1.4 patch (realise you probably have done this but ...). If you are on the latest version, I'd suggest convert this to a formal bug report and pop it (with saves) in that directory

[Tach]

Double checked and I'm on 1.04rc2 (I'm assuming that when you say 1.4, you mean 1.04? if not, where do I get that patch?). I'll stick it in as a formal bug report. Meanwhile I'll try downgrading to 1.03e and seeing if that fixes it.

[ajnatalo]

This is a known issue with RC2. I've got some games on hold because I don't feel like re-installing 1.03e in order to take single cities. This, especially since RC2 has all of the colonial decisions working to their full potential.

[vaalen]

Pocus, I know you are busy, but I beg you to try to find the time to fix rc2. The reported bugs make it difficult to play the game in a satisfactory manner, and doing without PON is a bit like being in the desert without water, except you will not die from it. But there is suffering...

[czert2]

well, we all need to wait cca 1-2 months since they are now bussy fixing cwII, anfter it we can expect some more atention to pon.

[loki100]

point is not here,is that in version 1.03 (russian endgame for me), they were almost immediate
in 1.04 lag is such game becomes unplayable (had to deinstall, reinstall with last 1.03 fix, could really no longer play, B and F4 became unusable, and they are irrepleacable tools) - waiting 10-15 minutes interturn is managable - a lag in minutes (or even 30second) EACH click for managing economy is not

please, can you plan to correct the lag for next patch, is really a killer, prevents to benefit from further improvements (I don't know if you notice on your computer, as I guess you develop with a powerful PC)

cheers

Christophe

I can confirm that this is patch related. I'm in 1900-02 and when I was running the beta using F4/B-screen was like treacle. I've reverted to 1.03 to avoid the immortal garrison bug and I can use them on a regular easy basis - and use the B screen to do bulk changes to trade orders.

so same game - different performance under different patches

[sagji]

HI Sagji, sorry to respond rather late but I've been working on trying to understand problems with the 1900 techs, esp the non-appearing dreadnoughts.

but there is at least one error in your list - Hospital ships generates a unit of that type that you can build

I can't find anything that triggers the effect - I suspect this oe is hard coded into the exe rather than done by events.

Now Dreadnougjts, I think I've caught the flaw:

If we look at BBO6 (ie the 1900 Dreadnought), we see:
that is the British one, same apart from unit names for the other majors. Now the Super-Dreadnought (ie the 1910 tech) has one key line different:
I *think* that is the key, the BB06 tries to use , I'm going to recode all the relevant entries and generate the cache to see if that deals with the gap. Now to look at airplanes

a wee bit out of my depth, but on checking in models, none of Dreadnought, air recon, air bomb, air fight, air sep, airships or airfield, have any activation tech (all are 'Null'), but then so are a lot of techs, like every generation of battleships from 1-5 (and I know they all work, so is 'activated by' of any real importance?)

Won't work. Family is the list of types that can be in the unit - you can combine two units (e.g. a learder and a corps) if all of the models actually in the two units are in the family list for one of the units.
The way units are usually added to the forcepool is by adding or replacing a forcepool limit - when you research ironclad frigates it triggers an event (in RI_Template Naval) with XXX replaced with the researching nation's TAG

StartEvent = RI_Ironclad_Frigates|999|0|NULL|NULL|NULL|NULL
Conditions
Actions
ChangeUnitType = $uni_XXX_Frg2;$uni_XXX_Frg3;InFP;OnMap
ObsoleteModelGen = *WSFF1*
EndEvent

The change unit type changes all units of the first type to the second type. So Britain has a forcepool of 10 uni_GBR_Frg2 then it change that to 0 and adds 10 to Britain's uni_GBR_Frg3 forcepool.
The obsoleteModelGen marks that model as obsolete - any model (i.e. sub unit) that has that value for its generation will ten be eligible to upgrade - to the model specified in its Upgrade to field.
Some techs use "ChangeUnitPool = $uni_XXX_CD01;5" which simply adds 5 to the nation's early monitor forcepool.

I wish sagji's tool was in the hands of Pocus. Or Pocus had a similar one. This will indeed speed up things in the few remaining database errors. This is the most difficult part of hiccups to eradicate cause it might only be a single line that changes or breaks the whole upgrade sequence. I suspect there are some issues in the sequence to make obsolete older techs, unless it was a problem of the PBEM (which was started with a very early release of the game). I really could understand why some nations had for example to build 3 types of the same (say commercial ships) of the same generation (ie, the button appeared three times), instead of combining their force pool into one and keeping the UI sleek.

The most likely cause is they were different "generatons" but have the same stats - they must have different IDs

[Aslan Stark]

Stupid noob question coming up:

The game doesnt update automatically from steam right? and if it doesn't what do i need to make a backup in my game folder just in case

[loki100]

From what I've read, if you bought off steam the best solution is to move all your game files to a new directory (I've got all mine in a directory linked to my desktop), and then manually add the patches over that. If you don't steam will keep reverting you to their latest patch - which is not the same as the game's latest patch.

[loki100]

Won't work. Family is the list of types that can be in the unit - you can combine two units (e.g. a learder and a corps) if all of the models actually in the two units are in the family list for one of the units.
The way units are usually added to the forcepool is by adding or replacing a forcepool limit - when you research ironclad frigates it triggers an event (in RI_Template Naval) with XXX replaced with the researching nation's TAG

The change unit type changes all units of the first type to the second type. So Britain has a forcepool of 10 uni_GBR_Frg2 then it change that to 0 and adds 10 to Britain's uni_GBR_Frg3 forcepool.
The obsoleteModelGen marks that model as obsolete - any model (i.e. sub unit) that has that value for its generation will ten be eligible to upgrade - to the model specified in its Upgrade to field.
Some techs use "ChangeUnitPool = $uni_XXX_CD01;5" which simply adds 5 to the nation's early monitor forcepool.

Ok that is helpful, when I find the RI_.... code for the Dreadnought I find:

SelectFaction = $XXX
StartEvent = RI_Dreadnought_tech|999|0|NULL|NULL|NULL|NULL

Conditions

Actions
ChangeUnitType = $uni_XXX_BA04;$uni_XXX_BB06;InFP
ObsoleteModelGen = *SBB1*
ChangeUnitPool = $uni_XXX_BB06;5

EndEvent
NULL = NULL

when I compare that to the late BB - which I know will fire as set:

SelectFaction = $XXX
StartEvent = RI_Late_Battleships|999|0|NULL|NULL|NULL|NULL

Conditions

Actions
ChangeUnitType = $uni_XXX_War3;$uni_XXX_BA05;InFP
ObsoleteModelGen = *WBBLR1*
ObsoleteModelGen = *WBBLR2*
ObsoleteModelGen = *WBBLR3*

EndEvent
NULL = NULL

Now for the life of me, I can't see what is wrong/different. Now I am wondering if this is akin to the hospital ship issue (ie I know full well a ship type is triggered by that tech) even if it doesn't appear when you track the research tech to consequences?

In my game, I am about 4-5 months off the tech being fully researched so I'll simply let it run as is. I do start to wonder if some of those claiming this tech doesn't work have not actually played past the stage when it is meant to occur.

[sagji]

Ok that is helpful, when I find the RI_.... code for the Dreadnought I find:

I suspect you are confusing RI_Dreadnought_tech and RI_Dreadnought

There is a invention RI_Battleships. When you invent it you get a technology RI_Battleships_tech. When you research that it fires the RI_Battleships_tech event in the naval template and you get some battleships.

With RI_Dreadnoughts_tech it doesn't require RI_Dreadnoughts (only RI_Steel_Ships, RI_Steam_Turbine, RI_Early_Battleships, RI_All_Big_Guns and RI_Cordite).

The result is that as RI_Dreadnoughts isn't required for RI_Dreadnoughts_tech it has no effect.

It may be that RI_Dreadnoughts was removed from RI_Dreadnoughts_tech to give it some chance of arriving at a reasonable time - but this also needs to be done for Ironclads - to build Ironclad frigates the tech chain is locked until 1860 and then you need an invention and two technologies in sequence before you can build HMS Warrior (which takes another year) so you are doing well if you can launch her before 1870.

[loki100]

I suspect you are confusing RI_Dreadnought_tech and RI_Dreadnought

There is a invention RI_Battleships. When you invent it you get a technology RI_Battleships_tech. When you research that it fires the RI_Battleships_tech event in the naval template and you get some battleships.

With RI_Dreadnoughts_tech it doesn't require RI_Dreadnoughts (only RI_Steel_Ships, RI_Steam_Turbine, RI_Early_Battleships, RI_All_Big_Guns and RI_Cordite).

The result is that as RI_Dreadnoughts isn't required for RI_Dreadnoughts_tech it has no effect.

It may be that RI_Dreadnoughts was removed from RI_Dreadnoughts_tech to give it some chance of arriving at a reasonable time - but this also needs to be done for Ironclads - to build Ironclad frigates the tech chain is locked until 1860 and then you need an invention and two technologies in sequence before you can build HMS Warrior (which takes another year) so you are doing well if you can launch her before 1870.

I reverted the unit type back, have just finished researching the Dreadnought tech and some new very strong Dreadnoughts appeared in my force pool. I realise, like us all, you are trying to improve this game and remove problems but your list of 'techs that lead nowhere' has been reinterpreted by some as 'techs that don't work' (there is a classic of this type over on the Matrix forum). I've seen several posts now, quoting it as 'Dreadnoughts' don't exist in the game etc.

This is like the Hospital Ship, the tech works exactly as it is designed to.

[Kensai]

Pocus, do we have a release date for v1.04?

[sagji]

This is like the Hospital Ship, the tech works exactly as it is designed to.

You don't know that. I believe the design intent was that you have to get the dreadnought invention before you can get the deadnought technology which adds the Dreadnought units to the forcepool. Thus the implementation which doesn't require the invention before getting the tech isn't WAD but is giving you the Dreadnoughts more easily than intended.

As it is currently implemented the ri_dreadnought (87) invention (not the ri_dreadnought_tech (88) technology) has no effect in the game - it should either be removed (if it is no longer intended to do anything), or be added as a prerequisite for dreadnough_tech (if the intention is that it should be)

[Pocus]

This is something that is itching at me since some time. I really don't know. On the one hand I would like to provide an official PON patch and not a RC, on the other hand, we don't have the human resources (I represent 100% of the programmers at Ageod currently ) to do a PON patch if it means opening new can of worms and pages of requests. PON being so complex that there is probably pages upon pages of glitches found since June.

We will decide soon what is the next project anyway and how PON inserts into that.