enf91
AGEod Veteran
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Wed Apr 28, 2010 7:46 pm

[nitpick]Ghent is misspelled. I think there were a few others in the original... don't know if they've been fixed.[/nitpick]
Awesome! Now do it again with the AI improvements on max difficulty/aggressiveness. Let's see how you handle trench warfare! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

jjdenver
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Posts: 2
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 12:37 am

Thu May 13, 2010 12:40 am

calvinus wrote:06 Maestro started his AAR before the introduction of an important AI improvement, that we worked out 1 week ago: abandonement of warplan priorities in case of big danger!

That means the French AI would have abandoned her willingness to attack Metz and the surrounding areas when he had realised the threat to North France! And probably she had moved all those forces to defend Paris.

I think the game would have been somehow different... :neener:


It seems like the AI was vulnerable to getting forces cut off. Would it help to add some AI logic to fight harder in tactical battles that would result in forces being cut off if the AI retreats? The end of the game saw lots of pockets of French forces that a human player probably would not allow.

06 Maestro
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Thu May 13, 2010 4:44 am

jjdenver wrote:It seems like the AI was vulnerable to getting forces cut off. Would it help to add some AI logic to fight harder in tactical battles that would result in forces being cut off if the AI retreats? The end of the game saw lots of pockets of French forces that a human player probably would not allow.


The AI did continue its attack north after most human players would have stopped-that is true. However, that does not mean that the quick victory in the west is easy. If you give it a shot, you will see what I mean. You will be able to do it after a few tries, but it is not some automatic win just because you want it to be. :) I have played this game enough over the past year and 1/2 to know I can beat the ai if I really try-but that normally takes a lot longer than 5 months.

The ai in this game is pretty good-but still not as good as a crafty human. There are very few (I can think of only one) games where the ai gives a human like challenge without absurd cheats. If this last patch enables the ai to give up war plans due to a greater threat, this ai will give a very good challenge. As it is, (or was, in this AAR) it did a decent job. Remember the situation in the east was not favorable at all for Germany in this AAR game-the Russian ai was doing a pretty good job. If I had failed to capture Paris at the last minute (and it was the last minute, and by a hair), I would have had a long way to go to balance things out again in the east.

I have tried the Shliefflen Plan many times. I'm am still not sure whether it is better to just go for a good defensive line (while hurting French moral and production) or the killer blow on Paris. To drive on Paris, even after you have really figured out the game is not a guaranteed win in 1914.

If you do not capture Paris in 1914 it will be a long war. If you just go for good positions in the west in '14 you can set Germany up for some big victories in 1915. However, even with the capture of Paris in the sumer of '15 (which is almost guaranteed if you work towards that end from the start) it will not end the war. It will hurt France, but there will be a long ways to go for eventual victory.

jjdenver
Civilian
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 12:37 am

Thu May 13, 2010 6:55 pm

Hi,

Thanks for the reply.

Just to be clear I was not saying that the AI in general is bad. I was making a specific suggestion. Actually 2 specific suggestions.

For example take this post on the previous page of your AAR:
[color="Red"]"Western Front
South Sector
Nov/Dec 1914

The southern sector saw one large battle, at Metz and several small ones. Metz was attack by the 6th Army-from the south. It was an expensive contest, but it had to be won. In the end, the French were driven out, this dooming all their forces in the Rhineland."[/color]

Suggestion 1:
It should be easy for the AI to see that if it loses the battle at Metz, 3+ provinces farther east will be cut off from supply. Therefore, the AI should fight to the last man and never retreat voluntarily from Metz.

Suggestion 2:
The AI penetrated with a width of only one area (Metz) then drove farther east. The AI should have some algorithm that says the width of penetration must be greater than 50% of the depth of penetration. So for example in your screenshot it appears that the AI French have a penetration 4 area deep, but only 1 area wide. Because of this the AI should have pulled back from the deep penetration to strengthen the 1 area wide penetration point (metz). Only if the penetration zone is 3 wide (greather than 50% of 4 deep areas) would the AI be able to commit to further penetrations, else it should fall back to the penetration sector to keep it open. In case the penetration width is not greather than 50% of the penetration depth, forces should be pulled back from the penetration area to focus on widening the penetration.

This would be a rather conservative approach as sometimes it might be smart to push more forces into a penetration but this conservative approach would help to preven the many surrounded French units that you managed to achieve.

cheers

06 Maestro
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Sat May 15, 2010 5:55 pm

One other comparison that I should have made between Gold and the original is the info box quantity and usefulness. In the old game the pop ups were much more frequent and somewhat repetitive. It was the most irritating aspect to the old game for me. In the Gold version this has been drastically overhauled. The messages are now far less frequent and more pertinent.

JJdenver-I know what you are talking about, but I have never played against an AI that reacted like a human. I suspect that won't be much further in the future.

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Tamas
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Sat May 15, 2010 6:29 pm

jjdenver, I had a game app. the same time this AAR was written, where AI Germans broke through the French border (kronprinz plan), and while one army tried to pierce onward toward Reims, the others were busy with my forces south of the intended german push-line. So it does happen.

And some important checks have been implemented on war plan sustainability since this AAR (this is already included in the release version), so you can see the AI throw up his hands regarding offensive plans and hurry back to take defensive positions.

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