Railroad Conversion Problem in Army-by-Army Mode?

[Anthropoid]

Or am I just doing this wrong/missing something?

Documenting Problem with Converting Rails in army-by-army mode

I have multiple save files I can provide including the beginning of the turn “Jan – Feb 1916h” and various points through the turn immediately after I set various stacks to convert and then hit Enact. The description of my actions and the screen-caps start at the beginning of the military phase, Jan-Feb 1916, no movements have been made yet.

Here is a screen cap of the settings I’m playing with



Here is the Western Front.



As you can see there are many French areas under German control that do not yet have rails converted. 16 of them in fact. 14 of these 16 areas have units in the areas, which have not moved. This is the start of the turn. Here is a list of all the areas with the Army or Independent Infantry that is present.
(Montmedy is empty, but VII+II Inf Independent detachment is in Longwy, and will move in to try to convert; Vittel is also empty but there are units that can move into it from Charmes):

Sedan-VII Army
Rethel II A
Chalons sur Marne II A
Reims II A
Vitry Le Francois II A
Troyes I A
Bar le Duc IV A
Langres IVA
Dijon IIIA
Jura VIIA
Vittel is empty but a detachment of VII army will move in from Charmes
Neufchateau IIIA
Lons IIIAA
Besancon VIIA
Montb,liard IIIA

Interestingly, Luxieul, which is b/w Belfort and Neufchateau, IS successfully converted already. During the previous turn, I gave orders to EVERY single unit that is in an area with rail to convert rails, but the only one that converted was Luxeuil. From this, I can tell that it is not a problem with having to start conversion at the area that is adjacent to my rail network and work progressively outward because Luxeuil IS converted, despite being not adjacent to any of my existing rail network.

First thing I will do is click on the German III Army HQ in Dijon and set the German III Army as my main army (III Army is the one that has a detachment in Montb,liard, so I’ll start with it because it is the one that has a detachment that is in an unconverted area that is adjacent to my rail network [just in case that somehow figures into it]). I will NOT coordinate any armies on this Front, and I will always leave at least one unit in each area that I set rail conversion.

I activate the III Army. I then

(1) click on the III Army detachment in Montb,liard (Thionville garrison) and click convert rails button ON.

I then sequentially click to open the unit display for the III Army detachments in the following order:

(2) Lons (XXXIII Inf detachment of III Army) CONVERT is not turned ON, therefore I turn it on;

(3) Neufchateau (V Res Inf detachment of III Army) CONVERT is already turned ON [as shown in the screen-cap below]. Evidently this is turned on because the III Army detachment (Thionville Garrison) adjacent to it in Montbi,liard already had CONVERT turned on??

So then why didn’t the XXXIII Inf detachment of III Army in Lons AlSO turn CONVERT ON??



Then last I click on the III HQ in Dijon which has three corps and two in reserve. It also is already turned on?

I could hypothesize that turning on rails in the Thionville Garrison detachment of the III Army in Montbi,liard caused the Convert button to go on in other detachments of the III Army if they were adjacent, but that is not the case.

Both the III HQ stack in Dijon and the XXXIII Inf detachment of the III Army in Lons have stacks from other armies between them and the other two stacks of the third.

Any explanation why turning Convert rails on in the stack in Montbi,liard caused it to go on in the stacks in Dijon and Neufchateau but not in Lons?
Now I’ve visually inspected all the III army detachments to make sure the little convert rails button has the white-sheen highlight on it. I will not move a single one of these stacks, will not attempt any merging or anything like that. I just click the ENACT movements button, but before I do that, I do another save.

“Jan – Feb 1916hIII” so that you can check me if you want . . .

Next I click on the VII Army HQ in Sedan and activate it. Convert Rails is clearly not on initially when I activate it as shown in the screen cap



So, I click (1) on the CONVERT button and it clearly goes hazy



Using the same procedure as with the third I then open the detailed view of the detachments of the VII in the following order and find CONVERT to be as follows:

(2) XV Inf detachment of VII Army: Convert is NOT initially on. I turn it on, and do not move it.

(3) I Inf detachment of VII Army: Convert is NOT initially on. I turn it on, and do not move it.

(4) VII Arty detachment of VII Army, starts turn in Charmes: Convert is NOT initially on. I turn it on, and then order it to move into Vittel. Not sure if a detachment with only an arty corps can convert rails or not . . . we shall see . . .

I order the Strassbourg Garrison detachment of the VII to move to Gray, do a save “Jan – Feb 1916hVII” then click Enact movement.

Next, the II Infantry detachments are all clumped south of Sedan. First I activate the II Army HQ in Acis sur Aube. Interestingly, the CONVERT button is ALREADY turned ON!?! How and why this button should already be turned on immediately after I activate the army I cannot imagine? Left over from last turn? Carried over from the VII army that I just moved? Whatever is causing it, this does NOT seem to be working right, does it?

So having clicked to deactivate (to confirm visually that it was indeed ON when I first activated the army) I then (1) click to reactivate CONVERT in the II Army HQ in Acis sur Aube. I then click on the II Army detachments in the following order:

(2) Vitry Le Francois: III Kav detachment of II Army—already ON as shown in screen cap



(3) Chalons sur Marne: XLIV detachment of II Army-- already ON
(4) Reims: X Inf detachment of II Army-- already ON
(5) Rethel: VIII Inf detachment of II Army-- already ON

I create another save file “Jan – Feb 1916II” then hit Enact Move.

Next I follow the same procedure with the IV Army detachments in Vitry le Francois, Bar le Duc, and Langres. The IV HQ is in Vitry le Francois (where the II Army detachment has already received the convert rails order), but I still go ahead and give the IV HQ the convert order. This carries the convert order ON over to the two other IV army detachments in Bar le Duc and Langres. I take another save file “Jan – Feb 1916IV” and hit Enact.

I then reset I Army to be main army, and move it and the GHQ and attack Chatillon sur Seine, but retreated after one turn. That sums up my railroad building turn on the Western front.

So how did it all turn out? Here is the screen-cap of the Western Front from the beginning of the turn Mar-Apr 1916 Reinforcements phase “Mar-Apr 1916a.”



I also set my Turkish IV Army to build railrods in five areas in Sinai. None of those worked. Here is the screen cap:



As I detailed above, I systematically set virtually every army on the Western Front to build railroads, and double-checked that they were set properly. I moved only TWO of the 16+ stacks that I had set to convert railways. So what areas now have new rails in them?

Only three out of the 16 areas that I set to have rails converted actually have new rails in them: Montmedy, Bar le Duc, and Vittel.

Is this the way it is supposed to work? Am I missing something here?
Or is this a bug in the railroad converting in the army-by-army mode? I have not done such a systematic test as this, but I have a vague memory that using the WEGO mode, I have not had this trouble.

I'm attaching a zipped up folder with all of the save files I refer to in this note.

[calvinus]

Great Anthropoid, your post seems an AAR rather than a bug report!
Your determination and dedication deserve a maximum priority from me!

[Anthropoid]

A game engine, look-and-feel, and overall design that pushes the envelope like this one deserves some serious fan support

We're gonna help you get this baby running like a top so you can take a holiday soon!

ADDIT: I'm glad to see that your initial response was not something like: "Oh, well of course its not working. You didn't do the ___insert simple explanation detailed under small obscure clause in the exegesis of Calvinus___.

The other explanations that occurred to me: (i) areas that have enemy units adjacent to them are having a problem not converting: this does not seem to be the case as Bar le Duc, which did successfully convert, has enemies next to it.

(ii) areas that have enemy forts adjacent to them are having a problem. I'm pretty sure that: no enemy forts here that I noticed, though IIRC this DOES prevent rail conversion, as I have an area down at the Italian-French border zone that I still cannot get conversion to occur at because of an uncaptured French fort.

On other point of note: I also did some converting in Serbia-Rumania, and in Bessarabia and there most of the conversions seemed to have occurred successfully. However, I did not document them precisely as I did for the Western Front.

The one other possibility that occurred to me as an explanation: conversions are working when a unit is set to convert and THEN moves into the area without rails: this is true for both Montmedy and Vittel, but not for Bar le Duc.

[calvinus]

As usual, what I will do is to test in debug mode all possible occurrences in order to see what (and where) is wrong.

[calvinus]

As confirmed in another thread, your rail conversion do not work because you don't combine a move.

[Anthropoid]

As confirmed in another thread, your rail conversion do not work because you don't combine a move.

But neither of the units in Bar le Duc moved and the rails converted there?

I create another save file “Jan – Feb 1916II” then hit Enact Move.

Next I follow the same procedure with the IV Army detachments in Vitry le Francois, Bar le Duc, and Langres. The IV HQ is in Vitry le Francois (where the II Army detachment has already received the convert rails order), but I still go ahead and give the IV HQ the convert order. This carries the convert order ON over to the two other IV army detachments in Bar le Duc and Langres. I take another save file “Jan – Feb 1916IV” and hit Enact.

I then reset I Army to be main army, and move it and the GHQ and attack Chatillon sur Seine, but retreated after one turn. That sums up my railroad building turn on the Western front.

So is the rule that: in order for a unit to convert rails in an area it has to move into, out of or through it while the convert rail button on? Or is it that . . .

in order for a unit to convert rails in an area a unit in the same army has to move while all the units in that army have rail convert on?

Might I suggest that this rule be changed?!? as I suggest in the other thread?

IMHO, a stack should NOT have to move to convert rails within an area. If it has enough MPs, it should be able to convert the rails in that area. PERIOD. FULL-STOP. I find the idea that the counter has to move from the area without converted rails to an adjacent area to be a silly breach of the otherwise rigorous attention to realism and detail in the game.

If not changing the rule, then at least another suggestion: IF there is ever another set of edits to the manual, change the part of the manual that describes how rails convert

(p37) An infantry unit must pass over the railroad to be converted, using 1 extra MP. Neither cavalry, nor artillery, nor an HQ may convert it.
One may convert several rail regions at one time, with one or several units,
beginning first with the connected region (then the following ones).

to say:

An infantry unit must move through the area with unconverted railroads for the railroad to be converted, using 1 (or in the case of Russian rails 2) extra MP as it moves. To convert rails: select a stack that: (a) starts in an area with unconverted rails; and which (b) has enough movement points to move into an adjacent area, plus (c) the additional MPs necessary to convert rails (1 or 2MP). Click the CONVERT RAILS button, which will cause the button to highlight on the unit display. Now give the stack an order to move into an adjacent area. The unconverted rails will convert as the unit moves from the first area to the second. One may convert several rail regions at one time, with one or several units, beginning first with the connected region. Note, units CAN convert rails if they start moving from an area without rails, or with already converted rails if they pass through or end their movement in an area without converted rails and with the 1 or 2 extra MP.

Is the part about "Neither cavalry, nor artillery, nor an HQ may convert it." accurate?

I had an Army detachment with nothing but an Arty Corps in it convert the rails in Vittel even though it started the turn in Charmes.