Totally incomprehensible!

[stockwellpete]

I purchased this game a couple of months ago and I cannot make any sense of it at all. The tutorial seems to be very limited and some of the things it contains just don't seem to work (e.g. detaching two cavalry units into a screening detachment and sending them off to Tannenberg). Very frustrating experience, to be honest. I feel like I have wasted my money. Is there any sort of beginners guide out there at all?

[Random]

Is there any sort of beginners guide out there at all?

Short answer is no, but there is a community here to help and Calvinus, WW1G's designer comes by often to offer assistance.

This is a very complex and nuanced game (even if the drag and drop mechanics are relatively simple) that can take some effort to learn as it covers virtually all facets of the war, technological, political, economic, social, strategic, air, naval and diplomatic and all are intertwined in ways that can be both subtle and decisive at the same time. I have found no other Great War game that incorporates such depth.

Have read other complaints about the Tutorial but never even loaded it up so cannot comment one way or the other.

Read the Big Manual, the Errata and the WW1 Gold Hints that should be in the game folder. Starting with the 1916 scenario might be easier as a learning tool since things are already static and the global war problem in the Colonies and on the high seas are not present. Once you have learned the basics in the relatively static conditions of the Firepower Doctrines you might have an easier time adapting to the Manoeuvre Doctrine of 1914.

People have walked away from La Grande Guerre in frustration and the game does have some quirks and flaws. It demands much from the Player in that forward planning, understanding how the game works and how to exercise the assorted options you have every turn and attention to the details can pay big dividends but it does not require a comprehensive knowledge of WW1 to play well.

If you have specific issues or questions, ask away.

Good Luck.

[stockwellpete]

Thank you for your reply, random. I am sure it is a wonderful game but if I cannot get past the tutorial then I am not going to be able to play the game.

In Tutorial 2 I have managed to create my 2-unit cavalry sceening detachment (by using the "manage forces" box; the "drag and drop" is useless). But then what? It tells me to, "Click on cavalry screen detachment and "drag and drop" it over the Tannenberg area by using the left button of the mouse." Whatever way I try and do this nothing happens except I get a red error message in the events box. What am I meant to drag and drop? The little blue oblong that turns red when you click on it? (and it displays the two cavalry units in the box at the bottom of the screen) Or something else?

I have looked at a scenario and it says you have to do the tutorial first!! Some hope!!

[Random]

Cannot help with the tutorials, sorry. I have modded my WW1G installation to the point where they will no longer reliably run.

I have looked at a scenario and it says you have to do the tutorial first!!

I don't understand what this means. On my computer there are no prerequisites for starting a scenario, I do not think that completion of any of the tutorials was ever mandatory since I have never even tried one.

If you're having Drag and Drop problems there have been reports of mouse issues, see:

Mouse problem makes game unplayable

In my experience WW1G will on occasion have issues if it gets minimized in Window$ and then restored. Others have not reported this but have reported other graphic related problems.

To move units, you should select them from the map, (using the Spacebar to cycle through them should there be multiple units present) left-click, hold, drag to the Tannenburg area and release. If you're getting [color="#FF0000"]Red[/color] text in the Message Box you are attempting something impossible.

I'll reiterate my recommendation to try either the 1915 or 1916 scenarios as learning aids. The 1915 scenario starts with an Interphase when all your production takes place and the 1916 scenario starts with everything nice and static with continuous fronts and stockpiles of munitions and money.

Read up on the Interphase and the Grand Offensives, two absolutely essential aspects of WW1G that need to be well understood to help understand what's required and to minimize frustration.

Good Luck

[CSS]

Game is not as complex as it seems I would reccomend printing and reading the manual. It is an awesome game!

[stockwellpete]

Game is not as complex as it seems I would reccomend printing and reading the manual. It is an awesome game!

But the manual is over 200 pages long! I wanted to play a wargame not do a PHD! The tutorial seems to be partly broken so there does not appear to be a way for me to get a foothold in the game. I opened up the 1915 scenario and it asking me to press the "pause" button - but wtf is it? This is just absolutely piss-poor and the game is coming off my computer right now. I will not be buying from Ageod again. Thanks to those who have tried to help me.

[calvinus]

Hello, the Pause key is in the keyboard of your PC. If you haven't that key, I remember you can use F9 key.

The reason why you see that message is because the AI starts paused. Neverthless you can play and schedule moves and orders, perform actions. Then, when you have finished, hit the Pause key, thus activating AI. Once done, the game will be "locked" for AI activities. As soon AI finishes, you can process the end-turn/pahse procedure.

[PhilThib]

But the manual is over 200 pages long! I wanted to play a wargame not do a PHD! The tutorial seems to be partly broken so there does not appear to be a way for me to get a foothold in the game. I opened up the 1915 scenario and it asking me to press the "pause" button - but wtf is it? This is just absolutely piss-poor and the game is coming off my computer right now. I will not be buying from Ageod again. Thanks to those who have tried to help me.

Sorry about this. It looks like somehow you did not get access to the demo before buying. We are ready to reimburse the game if you feel it was not worth the purchase. Please send me an email at pthibaut@ageod.net with your purchase invoice copy and we shall sort this out.

[stockwellpete]

Hello, the Pause key is in the keyboard of your PC. If you haven't that key, I remember you can use F9 key.

The reason why you see that message is because the AI starts paused. Neverthless you can play and schedule moves and orders, perform actions. Then, when you have finished, hit the Pause key, thus activating AI. Once done, the game will be "locked" for AI activities. As soon AI finishes, you can process the end-turn/pahse procedure.

Thanks, but no thanks. I am going to accept the offer of a refund. I am sure it is a wonderful game but if it is virtually inaccessible for someone who is completely new to it then you have defeated yourself. The tutorial needs to work properly for a start and if the game is very complicated then it needs some sort of "halfway house" scenario so players can learn the key concepts before moving onto grapple with the subtleties. You are just asking far too much of someone like myself and I have played a number of wargames now. I am just not prepared to print off 200+ pages of manual and try to decipher rules when the "drag and drop" mechanism doesn't always seem to work. Sorry.

[stockwellpete]

Sorry about this. It looks like somehow you did not get access to the demo before buying. We are ready to reimburse the game if you feel it was not worth the purchase. Please send me an email at pthibaut@ageod.net with your purchase invoice copy and we shall sort this out.

No demo. I have sent you an e-mail requesting a refund. Thank you.

[Leibst]

stockwellpete you hace choose the hardest game of AGEOD. BoA2 or RoP are really good games easy to play with them form the beginning.
Of you like wargames try them or just try with the demo. Imho AGEOD makes really quality games. But WWI is really different of BoA2, AACW, RoP, RUS, AJE and BoR. All these are similar and good games. AACW is imo the best wargame for pc about the American Civil War.

[Baris]

If you have played a couple of wargames you should know that good tutorial is not what you will expect playing these games plus rules can change with patches. But in this game it is exception. It has adequate tutorial and rule book in manual for events. Game is overall not difficult nor complex. Come back when you have played all other ww1 games in the market. This game is very good that it doesn't deserve hasty conclusions.

[stockwellpete]

"WWI is not just huge, it is also complex. The player is hit hard by a learning curve that the documentation, tutorials and interface could do a much better job in easing. Even after many hours of playing, this reviewer still found himself stumbling to understand all the nuances of basic things like the turn sequence. Sometimes, it feels like just getting through a year in the game is an accomplishment, never mind what you were actually able to do on the field."

http://www.armchairgeneral.com/world-war-one-la-grande-guerre-pc-game-review.htm

[Philo32b]

"WWI is not just huge, it is also complex. The player is hit hard by a learning curve that the documentation, tutorials and interface could do a much better job in easing. Even after many hours of playing, this reviewer still found himself stumbling to understand all the nuances of basic things like the turn sequence. Sometimes, it feels like just getting through a year in the game is an accomplishment, never mind what you were actually able to do on the field."

http://www.armchairgeneral.com/world-war-one-la-grande-guerre-pc-game-review.htm

Armchair General also gave AGEOD's Revolution Under Siege a 95% and loved it. The other AGEOD games are more similar to that. (Although a new player should start with Birth of America 2 or Rise of Prussia, IMHO.)

[WallysWorld]

stockwellpete,

I had the same initial opinion of this game as you. I too was overwhelmed with the complexity of trying to figure it out. But by playing the small scenarios that came with the game did I slowly learn the mechanics. Once you do develop a basic knowledge of the game, you will figure out the more interesting parts of the game by playing the main campaigns. Making mistakes is part of the learning process and also part of fighting a war. For me diplomacy is still the thing that I have trouble completely understanding, but by playing and making mistakes, I'm learning.

WW1's complexity makes the game a little difficult to learn, but the pain at the beginning is rewarded by a great gaming experience in the long run.

[Taillebois]

"WWI is not just huge, it is also complex. The player is hit hard by a learning curve that the documentation, tutorials and interface could do a much better job in easing. Even after many hours of playing, this reviewer still found himself stumbling to understand all the nuances of basic things like the turn sequence. Sometimes, it feels like just getting through a year in the game is an accomplishment, never mind what you were actually able to do on the field."

http://www.armchairgeneral.com/world-war-one-la-grande-guerre-pc-game-review.htm

It seems strange to quote a review telling the reader it is difficult; and to not have tried the demo; and want a refund.

Anyway, all credit to PhilThib for so graciously offering a refund. He's almost acting like an English gentleman for whom the embarrassment of a disgruntled customer far outweighs any commercial gain.

[PhilThib]

Anyway, all credit to PhilThib for so graciously offering a refund. He's almost acting like an English gentleman for whom the embarrassment of a disgruntled customer far outweighs any commercial gain.

We found an arrangement. Matter closed. Thanks for the praise. Now let's have a good drink, like gentlemen's would....

[stockwellpete]

Yes, I am very satisfied with the way I have been dealt with by Aegod. I would like to thank Philippe very much.

I have actually managed to work my way through the tutorials now. It has taken me around 8 or 9 hours though! I think some of the wording in Tutorial 2 could be much clearer. For example, at step 2 it says "click on the stack" without making it clear what a stack is; at step 6 it says "a pop-up menu will appear" but it never does; at step 7 it does not make it clear how to move the separate detachments i.e. you have to click on the stack first and then click on the soldier figure for each element; and at step 22 placing the reinforcements seems to be a bit of a lottery because it is not obvious where the precise point to allocate the units is. It would really help if tutorial 2 was looked at again and clarified in a future patch at some point.

Just a couple of things that people might be able to help me with. Presumably everyone is printing off the manual as a PDF? It doesn't appear to be possible to access the manual in game - is that correct? Which is the most up to date manual to print off then? In the game folder I have the "Big Manual", the "Big Manual Additions", the "WW1 manual (Turns and Rules Edition) and the "WW1 PBEM manual". I have the WW1 Gold Edition v1.08p and I will be playing solo for the forseeable future so which of these manual(s) should I print off? Or should I print off from somewhere on the forum now?

My second question concerns the AGE engine. I am a newcomer to AGEOD and I also have recently acquired "Pride of Nations" and "Revolution Under Siege". RUS is an AGE game and I have worked through the tutorials of that OK. Is WW1 Gold based wholly or partly on the AGE engine or is it something completely different. It seems that "WW1 Gold" is a relatively complicated game so maybe I should concentrate on RUS first and then try "WW1 Gold" later on? Finally, is the manual contained in RUS the latest version or is there a later version on the forum somewhere? Thanks for any help that is forthcoming.

[PhilThib]

WW1 Gold and RUS (AGE engine) are totally different engines...in fact WW1 Gold was coded in another language by another programmer, so both games are unrelated. Playing one will not help you with the other, and vice versa, unfortunately, even if both are turn-based games

WW1 is really the adaptation of my original boardgame of same name, and is rather 'complex' as a lot of things are handled by the engine, much more than in AGE, and thus need some level of abstraction

If you find WW1 complex, then you'll be frightened by Pride of Nations...don't play this one before you are familiar with other AGE games (WIA first, RUS next)

[ERISS]

I have actually managed to work my way through the tutorials now. It has taken me around 8 or 9 hours though! I think some of the wording in Tutorial 2 could be much clearer. For example, at step 2; at step 6; at step 7; and at step 22. It would really help if tutorial 2 was looked at again and clarified in a future patch at some point.

Lol. Same in RUS at release (the tutorial was to dupe and anger the newbs), I had to rewrite it (in french, then in english), and it has been integered in a patch. Now that some game bugs has been corrected, the tutorial, that I reworded to adapt to the bugs, is sometimes to be corrected back..
Maybe you'll have to do the work yourself..

[Baris]

Welcome back Stockwellpete ,
From my experience you start with pbem for learning. It is painfull but will speed up your learning curve. That's what I did even more monster games such as 'war in the east' while playing and reading manual.
Secondly I think Revolution under siege is one of the best games ever done in overall in gaming platform about this conflict.. It is even prettier and historical with this mod. http://moddercorner.com/. But this is after you play some.

For WW1 I think Calvinus is done a good job with this game. It is very solid and in long term you will enjoy much about it.

[stockwellpete]

Hello Baris,

I am going to follow Philippe's advice and start with the "Wars in America" game and then go onto "Revolution Under Siege". I have been able to follow the tutorials of these two games quite easily. I just need to sort out if I have got the games patched right up to date and I am looking at the latest version of the manuals. Are you able to advise me on this question that I asked earlier in the thread?

"Presumably everyone is printing off the WW1 Gold manual as a PDF from the games folder? It doesn't appear to be possible to access the manual while in the game itself - is that correct? Which is the most up to date manual to print off then? In the game folder I have the "Big Manual", the "Big Manual Additions", the "WW1 manual (Turns and Rules Edition) and the "WW1 PBEM manual". I have the WW1 Gold Edition v1.08p and I will be playing solo for the forseeable future so which of these manual(s) should I print off? Or should I print off from somewhere on the forum now?

[Baris]

Hello Baris,

I am going to follow Philippe's advice and start with the "Wars in America" game and then go onto "Revolution Under Siege". I have been able to follow the tutorials of these two games quite easily. I just need to sort out if I have got the games patched right up to date and I am looking at the latest version of the manuals. Are you able to advise me on this question that I asked earlier in the thread?

"Presumably everyone is printing off the WW1 Gold manual as a PDF from the games folder? It doesn't appear to be possible to access the manual while in the game itself - is that correct? Which is the most up to date manual to print off then? In the game folder I have the "Big Manual", the "Big Manual Additions", the "WW1 manual (Turns and Rules Edition) and the "WW1 PBEM manual". I have the WW1 Gold Edition v1.08p and I will be playing solo for the forseeable future so which of these manual(s) should I print off? Or should I print off from somewhere on the forum now?

Yes WIA is good choice. I like that game very much. Simplicity can be underlined with game mechanics often but I don't agree with it. It is one of the games that needs heavy strategy with relatively simple game mechanics. There are many AAR's in paradox forum I'm sure you will enjoy while reading and playing.

For WW1 there are generally descriptions and tooltips about mostly everything. For my part naval war and some historical events needs some throughly reading in manual and of course asking questions in the forum is essential.

[CSS]

Pete,

Thank you for your fortitude. I owned the original board game and dreamed of playing it. When the computer game came out it was buggy, but massive inprovements have happened over the year this is a complex game but an AWESOME game. I saved the manual on a fleash drive and had my local kwik copy print it for me and bind it for near $20.00 it was worth every penny.I still dream of a two player LAN connection on this game but the game itself is still just magnificent. I am proud you have toughed it through. I myself am proud that I said nothing snarky when you were frustrated. I will answer any questions you have, as me and my best friend have played this game over 50 times/ it has excellnt replayability!

[stockwellpete]

Pete,

Thank you for your fortitude. I owned the original board game and dreamed of playing it. When the computer game came out it was buggy, but massive inprovements have happened over the year this is a complex game but an AWESOME game. I saved the manual on a fleash drive and had my local kwik copy print it for me and bind it for near $20.00 it was worth every penny.I still dream of a two player LAN connection on this game but the game itself is still just magnificent. I am proud you have toughed it through. I myself am proud that I said nothing snarky when you were frustrated. I will answer any questions you have, as me and my best friend have played this game over 50 times/ it has excellnt replayability!

Thanks CCS. I have sorted out my printer and printed off the manual and manual additions today. There is also a "Turns and Rules" edition of the manual. What is that for then? Is it an earlier edition of the rules that has now been superseded or something? I will start by trying to play the American Wars game but in the meantime I will start reading the manual for this game as well so that I start to assimilate all the main concepts of the game. Cheers!

[stockwellpete]

Sorry to be a pain but can someone answer my question about the "Turns and Rules" edition of the manual. How does it relate to the main 200+ pages manual that I have already downloaded please?

[CSS]

Dont rightly know I have read the manual cover to cover where does this turns and rules edition exsist?

[stockwellpete]

Dont rightly know I have read the manual cover to cover where does this turns and rules edition exsist?

If you open up the folders to the game you can see it next to the main manual and the "additions". It has a slightly earlier publication date too. I am not sure if it is just an earlier version of the rules that can be ignored now or maybe it is an alternative or abridged ruleset. I take it then that the 200+ page manual is what everyone is using?

[antoine1965]

good morning,

i think if you want to have a complete understanding of the game, you have to play with the game manual and the files (events, turns rules, etc...).
You must read the manual to have an idea of the game's mechanisms but the truth is in the files.

[NY Rangers]

I've only read bits and pieces of the manual, and learned the game by playing. It's not totally incomprehensible. ;-)