Russian free ride in Armenia?

[vonRocko]

I just got done reading the latest rule releases. Boy was I doing a lot of things wrong!! Very enlightening.
One odd thing caught my attention, and maybe Phil or calvinus can explain.

What was the design reasoning behind letting Russia have a free ride in Armenia? I read that they can suffer all the casualties they want against Turkey over there, without having them count against their NW penalties.
Why?
Just curious.
Thanks

[calvinus]

Here free space for Phil!
Don't worry vonRocko... there are remarking reasons!

[PhilThib]

Casualties in the Caucasus were not that light for the Russians, but this was the sole theater of the war were they made real progress and victories, especially in 1916 with Yudenich' offensive... this added to the 'common' hatred for the Turkish neighbour and the 'far from home' but 'good news from there' aspect of the theater, my design decision was to push the Russian player to do something there...without costing him an eye

[vonRocko]

I see.
Thank you for the reply!

[soundoff]

Casualties in the Caucasus were not that light for the Russians, but this was the sole theater of the war were they made real progress and victories, especially in 1916 with Yudenich' offensive... this added to the 'common' hatred for the Turkish neighbour and the 'far from home' but 'good news from there' aspect of the theater, my design decision was to push the Russian player to do something there...without costing him an eye

Does that hold for the whole of the conflict or only until 1917 as it should?

[Tamas]

Does that hold for the whole of the conflict or only until 1917 as it should?

In what way 1917 is relevant?

[soundoff]

In what way 1917 is relevant?

Only that taking the 'historical' viewpoint from which Phil is making his assertions that losses in Armenia should cost Russia nowt because of the 15 and 16 victories it ignores that in early 1917 the revolution occured and this led at first to a stagnation on the Armenian front then to a mass desertion of Russian forces on that front.

So if you count that Armenia costs nothing to Russia prior to 1917 irrespective of whats happening in the rest of the world by a similar token that nothing cost should end in early 1917

[Tamas]

Only that taking the 'historical' viewpoint from which Phil is making his assertions that losses in Armenia should cost Russia nowt because of the 15 and 16 victories it ignores that in early 1917 the revolution occured and this led at first to a stagnation on the Armenian front then to a mass desertion of Russian forces on that front.

So if you count that Armenia costs nothing to Russia prior to 1917 irrespective of whats happening in the rest of the world by a similar token that nothing cost should end in early 1917

However, when the Russian Revolution happens (if at all!) depend entirely on in-game happenings. It is not an event, but a game system.

Do not worry however. The Russians are seldom in a shape to send countless units to the Caucasus - I think their historical power levels are quite well modelled, assuming the lack of any wildly ahistorical happenings.
If you examine, you will see that either you or the AI will have a hard time in 1915 to form a solid frontline, as your peasant recruits will mean no real match to a dedicated Centrals attack. But you can conserve some quality units of yours, preferably for a big strike against Austria-Hungary...

[soundoff]

However, when the Russian Revolution happens (if at all!) depend entirely on in-game happenings. It is not an event, but a game system.

Do not worry however. The Russians are seldom in a shape to send countless units to the Caucasus - I think their historical power levels are quite well modelled, assuming the lack of any wildly ahistorical happenings.
If you examine, you will see that either you or the AI will have a hard time in 1915 to form a solid frontline, as your peasant recruits will mean no real match to a dedicated Centrals attack. But you can conserve some quality units of yours, preferably for a big strike against Austria-Hungary...

Thats hardly the point Tamas......either you are modelling to history or you are ignoring it....now which is it? Same as counting the historical Russian victories in Armenia in 1915 and 1916....to paraphrase yourself 'it depends entirely on in-game happenings' so should not automatically cost the Russians nothing.

[Tamas]

Thats hardly the point Tamas......either you are modelling to history or you are ignoring it....now which is it? Same as counting the historical Russian victories in Armenia in 1915 and 1916....to paraphrase yourself 'it depends entirely on in-game happenings' so should not automatically cost the Russians nothing.

You are wrong. If the Russian population, during the "normal" years of war did not care much for losses in Armenia, and these "normal years" continued well into 1917 or 1918, why should the ruling change?

Also, have you played the game? The issue is really marginal at best, since apart from the occasional bigger clash with the Ottomans, for Russia, the bloodbath in Europe will way overshadow any losses they may suffer in the Caucasus.

[FM WarB]

The "Russian" forces in their Army of the Caucusses consisted in large proportion of locally raised troops of Armenian and other local ethnic groups. No Muscovite cared if they died.