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Hobbes
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Sun Apr 13, 2008 3:39 pm

hootieleece wrote:I am really enjoying AACW, but would be interested in Birth of America. Should i find A copy of it or just wait a couple of months for BoA2?


Really up to you Hoot, but I would advise you to wait until BoAII - if you are enjoying AACW it should keep you occupied for a long time - if not try a PBEM game with it and spend the next few months reading up on the French and Indian war and the war of independence etc.

Cheers, Chris

Omnius
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Supply Improvements for BoA2?

Sun Apr 13, 2008 4:27 pm

One thing I thought was kind of offbase was the movement rate of supply wagons. I always thought supply wagons were way too fast in BoA, especially the British ones. I keep thinking of Cornwallis and how he burned his excess baggage so he could catch Greene retreating northwards over the Dan River. I also keep thinking that the supply wagons should represent the large numbers of camp followers that hampered an army's movement on both sides. I'd think that a supply wagon's movement rate ought to be the same as for artillery units. How else to properly model Cornwallis's decision to burn his supply wagons and excess baggage in a vain attempt to catch Greene's army? Please reduce the movement rate for supply wagons for BoA2 to more properly reflect the drag on an army's movement that they historically were.

Another point of the Cornwallis example from above is how can we destroy supply wagons if we want to? We can destroy forts and depots but not supply wagons nor bateauxs. This is a feature that would be good to include as this was done in other Revolutionary War board wargames. Please give us the ability to destroy supply wagons and bateauxs if we want to in BoA2.
Omnius

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PhilThib
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Sun Apr 13, 2008 5:40 pm

The feature to destroy units for supply and artillery should be in...get ready to spike the guns !

Now for the supply units movement rate, I'd like to check it a bit more before reducing it... needs some play testing :indien:
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GShock
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Sun Apr 13, 2008 6:02 pm

I hope boa2 comprehends the ability to build forts wherever we want ... I am not entirely sure about AACW but surely it's making me giggle as i can imagine at some point in time such feature would be retrofitted :coeurs:

I have built a depot in texas with the transport boats and it appeared like a town...i didn't try to build a fort onto it (i think it's not possible but am not entirely sure and i didn't want to "risk" since CSA is so poor) in either case we need different graph for these goodies.
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PhilThib
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Sun Apr 13, 2008 7:41 pm

Building forts everywhere is not shceduled or allowed now, because it would seriously alter the gameplay....

To do so, we would need to revise entirely the way forts are made in BOA... :tournepas
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GlobalExplorer
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Mon Apr 14, 2008 8:28 pm

hootieleece wrote:I am really enjoying AACW, but would be interested in Birth of America. Should i find A copy of it or just wait a couple of months for BoA2?


I am in exactly the same situation, and I will wait for BoA2. Only then you will get the improved features of the AACW engine.

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GShock
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Tue Apr 15, 2008 6:17 am

I can't wait for BOA2, already asked to pre-order and volounteered for testing. :)

I think the team should publish an AAR just like Matrixgames do to show the progress in development. BTW Gary Grisby's game on CW is immininent.

I have A world divided and i can clearly see from their AAR that the game is virtually the same transposed from WW2 to ACW so i DONT think i'm going to buy it...and besides i already have FOF.

BOA instead was on the very top of my list since i bought AACW. Boa2 will be a masterpiece. One of those titles you can't miss.
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Fri Apr 18, 2008 4:13 am

I'm really interested in this game, and I really can't wait for it to come out, but I'm wondering about the different units in the game, as well as the length of the game.

AACW is good, but sometimes I get a little bored by the lack of variety of units. Will there be more in BOA 2. The other question I have is will there be a grand campaign around the same length as ACW? I love wasting hours and hours on it.
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Omnius
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What about Bateaux?

Sat Apr 19, 2008 3:27 pm

PhilThib wrote:The feature to destroy units for supply and artillery should be in...get ready to spike the guns !

Now for the supply units movement rate, I'd like to check it a bit more before reducing it... needs some play testing :indien:


PhilThib,
That sounds good that we'll be able to get rid of supply wagons and artillery but what about those pesky bateaux? Being able to destroy bateaux would be historically accurate and would help players slow down enemy river movement.

As I recall supply wagons move faster than infantry. I think that ought to be reversed so that an army of just infantry can outrun an army with infantry and supply wagons. Plus supply wagons ought to be much slower in rougher terrains.
Omnius

tagwyn
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Boa Ii

Sat Apr 19, 2008 9:36 pm

Phil: When do help with the testing of this program according to Pocus? L3 :p apy:

tagwyn
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Testing?

Sat Apr 19, 2008 9:37 pm

Phil/Pocus: When do I get to help with the testing of BOAII? :p apy: L3

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Heldenkaiser
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Sat Apr 19, 2008 10:16 pm

Mosby wrote:The other question I have is will there be a grand campaign around the same length as ACW? I love wasting hours and hours on it.


Since there are already two grand campaigns in BoA (French and Indian War and ARW) I would be surprised if there wouldn't be any in BoA2. In fact I am hoping for a War of 1812 campaign too. :)
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GShock
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Sun Apr 20, 2008 8:32 am

I'm gonna preorder BOA2 even before they start allowing it if the need arise! :)
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A Better AI Please

Sun Apr 20, 2008 5:08 pm

I really hope the AI gets improved in BoA2. I just started a game on the hardest levels as the Americans in the 1775 Alt Campaign game and after 3 turns I ended up quitting in disgust with what the British AI did. I was puzzled why there wasn't an army in Boston showing with only one leader and one unit sitting next to Boston in the area above Boston. I was wondering if somehow my intel was messed up so I went to look at the British AI's side. I was stunned to see Boston was deserted. I was even more stunned to see the whole Boston Army sailing on ships to Florida of all places way down by Texas. I am glad that the AI has been programmed to move troops by ship as that is a welcome fix.

I can only deduce that this new British AI strategy is somehow considered smart but I don't think it is. I wasn't even threatening Boston and with the AI having the best combat advantages there's no way I could have attacked and taken Boston had the AI remained and smartly guarded it. I had my Army split in two guarding Springfield and the other victory city next to it. Now I could just waltz into an unguarded Boston picking up a big VP city plus the all important depot. Now those big 1776 British reinforcements will end up in Nova Scotia and I am dubious as to whether the British AI will be smart enough to sail the ships up there to pick them up to take them someplace smart like New York City. It also left Canada wide open to invasion which isn't very smart.

While it's nice to have the AI have different strategies I am disappointed that it has been given a really dumb strategy like this nonsensical abandonement of Boston in favor of some mystical southern strategy where there isn't enough supply to feed such a large army.

I am so disappointed in computer wargames as I've seen so much programming time wasted on prettier graphics or chrome and so little time invested in making the AI's play smarter. All companies are guilty of this shortsightedness and it sure would be a real treat to see a company invest more time making a smarter, better AI that would give us solo players more enjoyment and challenge with computer wargames. Please invest more time in making a smarter AI so that these games don't become so boring to play after a few plays.
Omnius

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Sun Apr 20, 2008 5:51 pm

A Grand Campaign from say Pierre le Moyne D'Iberville in 1686 all the way to through an extended War of 1812...
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Lee
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Wed Apr 23, 2008 10:19 pm

Oh, common guys. I just bought AACW and NCP - and what can I say: Another two great games after BoA. You're making a wonderfull job. And now - news about BoA2. Do you will destroy my life and my wedding preparations, my relationship etc. etc. ??? :) ))I'm 100 % sure that BoA2 will be a excellent game and I 'll spend another sleepless night with it.

Greetings from Poland

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PhilThib
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Thu Apr 24, 2008 7:10 am

Farfarer2 wrote:A Grand Campaign from say Pierre le Moyne D'Iberville in 1686 all the way to through an extended War of 1812...


Nice ambition, but there would be too many 'boring' periods (i.e peace :niark: )
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Stwa
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Fri Apr 25, 2008 12:35 pm

Omnius wrote:While it's nice to have the AI have different strategies I am disappointed that it has been given a really dumb strategy like this nonsensical abandonement of Boston in favor of some mystical southern strategy where there isn't enough supply to feed such a large army.


Hi Ominus,

1. Not sure if you have noticed, but sometimes the big points come when you vaporize an enemy army. Capturing the strategic cities gives you less points by comparison.

2. I hate it when the AI abandons an "important" strategic city as well. But, quite frankly, I also abandon stategic cities. Especially when playing as the Americans. Sometimes I leave an "excuse me" garrison. But sometimes the AI does this too.

3. The AI seems stoopid, because it doesn't seem to have been coded with a military mind set as an attribute.

For instance, at the start of the 1778 Northern campain, the British Army in Philadelphia may NOT detect Washington's Army one province away in Reading. If NO detection occurs, the British Army generally leaves Philadelphia for some "other objective". A real commander would know Washington's Army is out there and has not other tangible purpose other than to threaten Philadelphia and possibly New York.

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Pocus
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Fri Apr 25, 2008 2:44 pm

That the AI still lacks 80% of the behaviors an average player performs or deduces routinely is no great surprise. However, all AIs in general face this kind of problems, and Athena is considered as a quite correct one, able to defeat anyone who would show her not enough respect. :sourcil:

We don't develop stupid behavior on purpose. Sometimes, a rule given to the AI for her to behave inteligently in 80% of the cases will have stupid consequences in a very peculiar situation.

Also one of Athena's greatest lacking is that she miss some strategic depth.

It is just that it is easiest said than done, and even if doable without particular problem code-wise, there is always time constraints not far. A lot of our time is now invested in VGN.

I can assure you that I'm not totally incompetent when I play wargames, and some of the french players around can perhaps tell you that I'm more often the hunter than the prey in PBEM. When building Athena, I have tried to get her to react the same way I would. However, right now she is no match to any competent player, because she lacks the unbelievable adaptability of the human mind.

Cheers,

Pocus
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Fri Apr 25, 2008 4:28 pm

Don't forget we've also got John Connor and Keanu "Neo" Reeves on our side. :innocent:
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Stwa
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Tue Apr 29, 2008 1:49 am

Pocus wrote:That the AI still lacks 80% of the behaviors an average player performs or deduces routinely is no great surprise. However, all AIs in general face this kind of problems, and Athena is considered as a quite correct one, able to defeat anyone who would show her not enough respect. :sourcil:

We don't develop stupid behavior on purpose. Sometimes, a rule given to the AI for her to behave inteligently in 80% of the cases will have stupid consequences in a very peculiar situation.

Also one of Athena's greatest lacking is that she miss some strategic depth.

It is just that it is easiest said than done, and even if doable without particular problem code-wise, there is always time constraints not far. A lot of our time is now invested in VGN.

I can assure you that I'm not totally incompetent when I play wargames, and some of the french players around can perhaps tell you that I'm more often the hunter than the prey in PBEM. When building Athena, I have tried to get her to react the same way I would. However, right now she is no match to any competent player, because she lacks the unbelievable adaptability of the human mind.

Cheers,

Pocus


1. I doub't anyone seriously believes that the game developers are stoopid or incompetent.

2. I think Ominus was just expressing a wish that more resources (i.e. time and money) be applied to the AI as opposed to other game features like art and perhaps additional scenarious?

3. For Instance, BOA2, could have been completely about the AI, right? Only thing is, Ominus is not trying to sell the game, so the issue is more complex than that.

mp84
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Sat May 03, 2008 5:37 am

Hey,

Got a couple of questions if they could be answered...

One of the things that sort of bugs me a bit from BoA is the lack of a simple numbers representation of each of the units. (besides this issue with me, fantastic game)

Basically, what I mean, is I would like to see a nice representation of how many troops are under your command (by actual number size, not hitpoints), and to me it really adds to immersion of the game. Take, for example in AACW, where I know I'm sending 35,000 troops to try to seize Richmond and all. Now I do realize that BoA came out before ACW, so that's understandable, but now we have the chance to include this in BoA2..

So, I'm wondering we be able to see the same kind of numbers and such, in BoA2?

Also, while I find Battle Reports pretty good in BoA, I really , really wish we had a hard estimate of the number of casualities inflicted in the battle by actual numbers like AACW, so will see something like this as well in BoA2?

Naturally can't wait for this to come out, thanks! :)

MP

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Ayeshteni
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Sat May 03, 2008 6:26 pm

Look forward to its release.

I found BOA immensely enjoyable and I have no doubt BOA2 will be as enjoyable.

*hopes for more Amerindian depth*

Ayeshteni

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Sat May 03, 2008 11:08 pm

Ayeshteni wrote:*hopes for more Amerindian depth*

In which ways (if you don't mind me asking)? :)
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Farfarer2
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Wed May 07, 2008 1:09 am

A three player game :siffle:
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teufel0331
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BOA2 help

Thu May 08, 2008 6:36 pm

i love you guys something fierce and would be proud/happy to help test or with suggestions or whatever y'all need. as a former U.S. Marine, i'm very interested in the early doings of the Continental Marines -- they were founded in Philadelphia in November, 1775 and i think it'd be easy to replicate this in the game.
the Continental Congress resolved that "two battalions of Marines be raised ... as are good seamen, or so acquainted with maritime affairs as to be able to serve by sea when required; that they be enlisted and commissioned to serve for and during the present war with Great Britain and the Colonies, unless dismissed by order of Congress; that they be distinguished by the names of the First and Second Battalion of Marines."
anyhow, they ended up with 4 good companies of Marines: [color="Blue"]December 1776, their new Commandant (he'd make a good leader), Capt. Samuel Nicholas, wrote Congress, "The enemy having overrun the Jerseys, and our army being greatly reduced, I was ordered to march with three of the companies to be under the command of His Excellency, the Commander-in-Chief." This was the first example of a battalion of Marines about to serve as an actual fighting unit under the direct command of Army authority. The Marines did not, however, engage in the attack on Trenton, which followed General George Washington's crossing of the Delaware River. They accomplished the most arduous task of ferrying the Continentals across the river. After the first Battle of Trenton, the battalion of Marines under the command of Maj. Nicholas participated in battle with a detachment of Cornwallis's main army at Princeton, New Jersey. During the ensuing months Nicholas's battalion served both as infantry and artillery, participating in several skirmishes.[/color]
as in history, they'd also be good for amphibious assault against British-occupied Bahamas!
another idea: what the Americans call the "Quasi-war with France" (1798-1800) would be an awesome alternate reality scenario -- give the French a chance to re-capture Canada! if you need any other info on this, i'd be glad to help.
a little battle scenario i'd like to see (1801–1805, also w/ U.S. Marines!) is the so-called "Barbary Wars," when President Jefferson sent a U.S. naval detachment to the Mediterranean to fight pirates along the North African coast -- it'd be easy and very engaging!
anything i can do to help, please don't hesitate to get back to me!!!
-K

oxford_guy
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Fri May 09, 2008 1:41 pm

gpepper wrote:Hu ! I didn't think that some of you would ever look for it on my personal site...
I'm caught... :nuts:
It seems that I spoiled again.
Maybe all the ageod team will kill me now...

The entire map is like this one.
If you love it maybe we can do huge posters ! it is around 4 meters by 3.8 meters... Should be nice in a bedroom !


The site http://www.thedarkpepper.com/ seems to have disappeared, along with the map :-(

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lodilefty
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Wed May 14, 2008 2:58 pm

teufel0331 wrote:i love you guys something fierce and would be proud/happy to help test or with suggestions or whatever y'all need. as a former U.S. Marine, i'm very interested in the early doings of the Continental Marines -- they were founded in Philadelphia in November, 1775 and i think it'd be easy to replicate this in the game.
the Continental Congress resolved that "two battalions of Marines be raised ... as are good seamen, or so acquainted with maritime affairs as to be able to serve by sea when required; that they be enlisted and commissioned to serve for and during the present war with Great Britain and the Colonies, unless dismissed by order of Congress; that they be distinguished by the names of the First and Second Battalion of Marines."
anyhow, they ended up with 4 good companies of Marines: [color="Blue"]December 1776, their new Commandant (he'd make a good leader), Capt. Samuel Nicholas, wrote Congress, "The enemy having overrun the Jerseys, and our army being greatly reduced, I was ordered to march with three of the companies to be under the command of His Excellency, the Commander-in-Chief." This was the first example of a battalion of Marines about to serve as an actual fighting unit under the direct command of Army authority. The Marines did not, however, engage in the attack on Trenton, which followed General George Washington's crossing of the Delaware River. They accomplished the most arduous task of ferrying the Continentals across the river. After the first Battle of Trenton, the battalion of Marines under the command of Maj. Nicholas participated in battle with a detachment of Cornwallis's main army at Princeton, New Jersey. During the ensuing months Nicholas's battalion served both as infantry and artillery, participating in several skirmishes.[/color]
as in history, they'd also be good for amphibious assault against British-occupied Bahamas!
another idea: what the Americans call the "Quasi-war with France" (1798-1800) would be an awesome alternate reality scenario -- give the French a chance to re-capture Canada! if you need any other info on this, i'd be glad to help.
a little battle scenario i'd like to see (1801–1805, also w/ U.S. Marines!) is the so-called "Barbary Wars," when President Jefferson sent a U.S. naval detachment to the Mediterranean to fight pirates along the North African coast -- it'd be easy and very engaging!
anything i can do to help, please don't hesitate to get back to me!!!
-K


How can we possibly leave out the Marines? :coeurs: :king:

They're 'in' with Nicholas. :gardavou:

Quasi-war would be an interesting scenario. Do you have any research data we can look at?

..and sadly, the map doesn't cover the Med, so no 'Shores of Tripoli' at this time.....
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teufel0331
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Quasi-war w/ France

Wed May 14, 2008 6:52 pm

RE: 'the shores of tripoli'
maybe you guys could make a little battle map for the med, a la Scandanavia for the Finnish War in NCP? i know, that's a pain...

RE: quasi-war
anyhow, what would you need for the quasi-war? as it was, the actual conflict (undeclared by France or the US) was entirely naval. however, i'd be more interested in what would've happened if the war had actually gone hot.

[INDENT]Fought entirely at sea, the Quasi-War was largely a success for the fledgling US Navy as its vessels captured numerous French privateers and warships, while only losing one of its vessels. By late 1800, attitudes in France shifted and hostilities were concluded by the Treaty of Mortefontaine.[/INDENT]

In 1798, France was caught up in the War of the Second Coalition. Napoleon had assembled a powerful army of 30,000 in Marseilles, ready to sail for Egypt with a powerful fleet in support. If war had broken out with the Americans, perhaps he would have been sent against another target: maybe the fledgling U.S. and their British/Canadian allies? But could the French have gotten such a force across the Atlantic? I think that's the set-up, along with some island-hopping in the Caribbean, the Spanish in Florida and some Indian intrigue along the Mississippi/Great Lakes.

Whaddaya think?

p.s. i'm SO happy the young US Marines and their first commandant are gonna make a showing in the update!!!

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teufel0331
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French Naval Order of Battle at Aboukir Bay (Battle of the Nile): 1-2 August 1798

Thu May 15, 2008 2:39 am

i've no doubt this fleet would've been happier elsewhere! why not the caribbean? :niark:

link here for their fate, as well.

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