Ships in the Ice

[Heldenkaiser]

In BoA, ships that happened to be out on a lake when it decided to freeze were sent to a nearby friendly port.

In a WIA FIW campaign, this didn't happen. Rather, my two squadrons (eight elements) on Lake Ontario became locked in the ice when the lake froze and then of course "disappeared" over the next two months.

WAD?

[arsan]

It should do the same in WIA that was done in BoA. Go to the nerest friendly port. At least thats how it has worked for me always.
Maybe you have lost all the friendly ports on the lake?? in this case the ships can't return anywhere and will die in the ice
Cheers

[Heldenkaiser]

Maybe you have lost all the friendly ports on the lake??

If Niagara isn't a port, then yes. But the ships came from Montreal in the first place to conquer a friendly port on the lake , so why couldn't they just return there when the ice struck? Doesn't seem logical.

[arsan]

Mmm.. i don't think i get whats the exact problem... you seem to talk about different things...
You mean you own Fort Niagara?? then the boats should have got docked there when the ice came and we may have bug.
But if you didn't manage to conquer a port (Niagara or whatever) on the Ontario then we don't have a bug.
They cannot go to back Montreal because i'm pretty sure the Lachine Rapids (near Montreal) portage is one way only: Montreal towards Ontario, not the other way around (surely for historical reason, can't tell for sure as i'm no expert on the FIW). You may had reached La Presentation, but don't know if you own it or if the St Lawrence froze before the Ontario (so the ships already had that port blocked).

Cheers!

[Heldenkaiser]

You mean you own Fort Niagara??

I do.

They cannot go to back Montreal because i'm pretty sure the Lachine Rapids (near Montreal) portage is one way only: Montreal towards Ontario, not the other way around (surely for historical reason, can't tell for sure as i'm no expert on the FIW).

Hm. Ships sailing only upriver? Lake Ontario would be full of ships that can never come down again?

[arsan]

I do.

Then you should post the saved games so someone could check them
And what patch are you using.

Regarding portages and rapids i trust what the WIA "historical gurus" do as i'm not one of them.
Of course if you have different informations and historical sources to prove they are wrong, they will surely want to hear about
Cheers

[Heldenkaiser]

Of course if you have different informations and historical sources to prove they are wrong, they will surely want to hear about

I simply can't conceive of an important waterway that works only in one direction. Especially if there is no alternative route back.

[lodilefty]

I simply can't conceive of an important waterway that works only in one direction. Especially if there is no alternative route back.

Ridiculous.
The portage works both ways. But the port itself [Montreal] is not an adjacent region to the lake, if I understand where your ships are. The 'move to port' must be to a port that you control in a region immediately adjacent to your ships.

If you control Fort Niagra, and your ships were in water immediately adjacent when it froze, they should go to port there. If you captured the port after the water froze, you are stuck.

We need a saved game [include \Backup1] of the turn the water first froze to see this. Descriptions are too vague and I'm not going to try to replicate a situation to examine it.

[arsan]

Ridiculous.
The portage works both ways. But the port itself

I've always had problems using the Lachine Rapids downriver to, for example, attack Montreal as the Brits... i though it was just a "one way" portage. But now that i re-think of it it may be because i lacked control of the adjacent land region (its Montreal?? or La Presentation??)

Cheers

[lodilefty]

I've always had problems using the Lachine Rapids downriver to, for example, attack Montreal as the Brits... i though it was just a "one way" portage. But now that i re-think of it it may be because i lacked control of the adjacent land region (its Montreal?? or La Presentation??)

Cheers

Or you had schooners in the group. Only bateaux can portage

[caranorn]

As we are sdpeaking of portage. I never noticed a problem with Lake Ontario. But what I have noticed is that you can move bateaux from Montreal to Albany in some scenarios, but not back from Albany to Montreal. Not sure that's intentional...

[Heldenkaiser]

Ridiculous.
The portage works both ways. But the port itself [Montreal] is not an adjacent region to the lake, if I understand where your ships are. The 'move to port' must be to a port that you control in a region immediately adjacent to your ships.

"Immediately adjacent" is the pertinent point. They were off Frontenac when the lake froze. French held Oswego, so no friendly port on that stretch of lake. Riddle solved. Thanks, Lodi.

[Gray_Lensman]

deleted

[lodilefty]

As we are sdpeaking of portage. I never noticed a problem with Lake Ontario. But what I have noticed is that you can move bateaux from Montreal to Albany in some scenarios, but not back from Albany to Montreal. Not sure that's intentional...

Not intentional, nor do any such links exist in the DB

If you see this, or have a saved game, please post it.....

[Gray_Lensman]

deleted

[lodilefty]

Lodi...

This "one way" behavior can occur if BOTH regions do not have reciprocal Adjacency/JumpLink/TransLink to each other in their respective *.rgn files. You might look at the specific *.rgn files being referred to above to see if that could possibly be the problem.

This happened in earlier versions of AACW, especially with occasional one-way RR (TransLink) linkages, but it also occasionally showed up in non-reciprocal Adjacency(s) in a few cases.

I'm well aware of that, and have double checked each of these reported links as they are discussed...

Once upon a time, we were testing a link from Lake Champlain to Albany in beta only, but it didn't work properly, and was removed while still in beta. No signs of it, nor any other of these 'one ways' in 1.06e....

WIA patches and updates are still happening, and these reports get examined and addressed appropriately.

Show me the save or screenie, and I'll fix it....

[caranorn]

Lodi, I will take a look at this tonight and post the necessary material. I can certify there still was a one way link from Lake Champlain to Albany in at least some scenarios under version 1.06 (so not the open beta). The fact that it's only certain scenarios makes me think the connection actually is via a port on Lake Champlain, probably one of the forts at the southern end of the lake...

[caranorn]

I thought the Champlain to Albany connection was in the 1755 scenario. In fact it's in the 1775 one. The path seems to go through Lake Georges. In this screenshot and attached game I have a bateaux unit at Isle aux Noix that can move to Albany. On the other hand another bateaux unit at Phildadelphia, which could move to Albany via NYC cannot move to Lake Champlain. So the north-south movement is possible, but the south-north not...

P.S.: Can't seem to attach the screenshot, but here's the save game...

[lodilefty]

I thought the Champlain to Albany connection was in the 1755 scenario. In fact it's in the 1775 one. The path seems to go through Lake Georges. In this screenshot and attached game I have a bateaux unit at Isle aux Noix that can move to Albany. On the other hand another bateaux unit at Phildadelphia, which could move to Albany via NYC cannot move to Lake Champlain. So the north-south movement is possible, but the south-north not...

P.S.: Can't seem to attach the screenshot, but here's the save game...

Yup, there it is. A remnant of the old [as in 2008!!!] portage experiments.

Will be removed in final version of upcoming patch....

Thank you!