User avatar
Mosby
Lieutenant
Posts: 104
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:03 am

Thinking about buying

Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:41 am

I did this when I was on the fence about picking up BOA2, so I thought I'd do it again.

1) I'm just wondering if there are any major bugs/glitches that still need to be addressed?

2) Wondering how the AI is at handling the game, especially the longer scenarios (would like a challenge no matter who I play as)?

3) Any other issues that y'all think I might need to know...

Thanks for the help, hope I'm not coming off as rude or something. I mean the game is absolutely the best looking I've ever seen. It's a gorgeous map, and the unit markers and portraits really really look good as well. I love the era, all of the crazy uniforms and the sheer size of everything, but I just want to make sure that I'm going to have as much fun with this as I still do with AACW.

Thanks for everything that y'all are doing. Keep this up and I'll never have free time again.
"Have you got the rascal?" "No but he has got you!"

User avatar
berto
AGEod Guard of Honor
Posts: 1386
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2007 7:13 pm
Location: Oak Park, IL, USA

Thu Jan 15, 2009 11:08 am

This is the AGEOD game I've been playing most recently. I enjoy it, but I am more into historically based operational campaigns than free-wheeling Grand Campaign scenarios like those in AACW and which many people have been clamoring for in NCP.

AACW is being given a good workover by its very active player, modder, and beta tester community. NCP has nothing comparable, and it somewhat suffers as a result.

I tried several games against the AI and was badly disappointed. I don't play PBEM and instead now, for NCP, prefer hot-seat solitaire. I get a better opponent--me! ;) --and more historical gameplay that way.

Despite NCP's not yet living up to its full potential, I'd say: Buy it! I'm glad I did. :)
What this town needs is a good Renaissance band!
Early MusiChicago - Early Music in Chicago and Beyond - http://earlymusichicago.org
PIKT - Global-View, Site-at-a-Time System and Network Administration - http://pikt.org
AGElint - an AGE debugging toolkit - http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2978333
Your Mileage May Vary -- Always!

User avatar
Pocus
Posts: 25418
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 7:37 am
Location: Lyon (France)

Thu Jan 15, 2009 6:31 pm

That's a bit dispiriting to read that people are badly disappointed by the AI, given than several thousands of hours went into it since the start. Perhaps we should only provide games without AI then? This would sure cut on the costs, in these time of crisis. :(
Image


Hofstadter's Law: "It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's law."

User avatar
Mosby
Lieutenant
Posts: 104
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:03 am

Thu Jan 15, 2009 6:36 pm

Ha, that seems a bit drastic. I love the challenge that the AI in AACW gives me, and I'm surprised that it's not the same for this game.
"Have you got the rascal?" "No but he has got you!"

User avatar
Rafiki
Posts: 5811
Joined: Thu Aug 24, 2006 9:19 am
Location: Oslo, Norway

Thu Jan 15, 2009 6:39 pm

Well, speaking for only myself, I've had hundreds of hours of enjoyment playing against Athena; 10 more like me (I can provide an example list of names off the top of my head if you like), and already you're into the thousands :thumbsup:
[CENTER]Latest patches: AACW :: NCP :: WIA :: ROP :: RUS :: PON :: AJE
Visit AGEWiki - your increasingly comprehensive source for information about AGE games
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
[/CENTER]

User avatar
Mosby
Lieutenant
Posts: 104
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:03 am

Thu Jan 15, 2009 7:21 pm

Rafiki wrote:Well, speaking for only myself, I've had hundreds of hours of enjoyment playing against Athena; 10 more like me (I can provide an example list of names off the top of my head if you like), and already you're into the thousands :thumbsup:


that's more like it! Hooray for positive reviews.

I was just a bit confused if the AI could handle both sides of say the 1812 or spain campaigns...since it's not just two equal armies clashing.
"Have you got the rascal?" "No but he has got you!"

User avatar
Rafiki
Posts: 5811
Joined: Thu Aug 24, 2006 9:19 am
Location: Oslo, Norway

Thu Jan 15, 2009 7:34 pm

Sorry, I was speaking of AGE games in general; not NCP specifically; sorry for the confusion; have to admit I have played NCP that much :)
[CENTER]Latest patches: AACW :: NCP :: WIA :: ROP :: RUS :: PON :: AJE

Visit AGEWiki - your increasingly comprehensive source for information about AGE games

[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

[/CENTER]

User avatar
Clovis
Posts: 3222
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 7:43 pm
Location: in a graveyard
Contact: Website

Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:34 pm

The AGE AI is surprinsigly good. Of course, there are many things AI doesn't know how to, it's plagued by the lack of planification on several turns, choices between defensive and offensive strategy is a bit odd and there's large room for improvments in the objective solution.

But this AI is able to attack and defend. How many other AI unable to fight offensively?

This AI is able to produce different plans.How many AI scripted?

This AI is able to put some fight even on the weaker side for several turns. Niot all the game, but a part of it.

What's lacking can be in part solved with events using the scripting commands. But these commands are rather new and need time to be tested, implemented and tuned. And the AI has to cope with rule changes too. Any new rule is a big challenge for AI.

NCP is just lacking this. I'm pretty sure work could be quickly done for Russia and Spain Campaigns. Now of course, what's needed is someone knowing the period, having learning the scriptingtools, taking time to test events and with great modesty, comprehensiveness, skill for solving conflicts rather than create new....
[LEFT]Disabled
[CENTER][LEFT]
[/LEFT]
[LEFT]SVF news: http://struggleformodding.wordpress.com/

[/LEFT]
[/CENTER]



[/LEFT]

User avatar
berto
AGEod Guard of Honor
Posts: 1386
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2007 7:13 pm
Location: Oak Park, IL, USA

Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:57 pm

Pocus wrote:That's a bit dispiriting to read that people are badly disappointed by the AI, given than several thousands of hours went into it since the start. Perhaps we should only provide games without AI then? This would sure cut on the costs, in these time of crisis. :(


It was just a statement of my personal opinion about my experiences with this particular game. I'm sure that others will (and obviously have) disagree(d).

Did I say that I have abandoned the game? I think I said that I continue to play it (and even recommend its purchase) in the manner that suits me.

I have a better AI experience with WIA, so that's what I prefer with that game.
What this town needs is a good Renaissance band!

Early MusiChicago - Early Music in Chicago and Beyond - http://earlymusichicago.org

PIKT - Global-View, Site-at-a-Time System and Network Administration - http://pikt.org

AGElint - an AGE debugging toolkit - http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2978333

Your Mileage May Vary -- Always!

User avatar
Clovis
Posts: 3222
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 7:43 pm
Location: in a graveyard
Contact: Website

Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:02 pm

let's the dust settle and back to work!
[LEFT]Disabled

[CENTER][LEFT]

[/LEFT]

[LEFT]SVF news: http://struggleformodding.wordpress.com/



[/LEFT]

[/CENTER]







[/LEFT]

User avatar
Paul Roberts
Posts: 520
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2007 9:26 pm
Location: Between the Schuylkill and the Wissahickon

Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:09 pm

I've got a real fondness for NCP, not least because it sent me off on a reading spree that taught me a lot about the period. Without AGEOD, I would never have attempted to read David Chandler's big book. NCP even got me around to reading War and Peace at last. :)

As a gamer, I prefer the full campaign possibilities available in AACW, but something about the NCP era and aura really captures me. It's too bad that some recent modding work didn't pan out.

Are there plans to import the more recent improvements of WIA and AACW into NCP?

User avatar
berto
AGEod Guard of Honor
Posts: 1386
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2007 7:13 pm
Location: Oak Park, IL, USA

Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:24 pm

Paul Roberts wrote:NCP even got me around to reading War and Peace at last. :)


War and Peace is a truly great book. Tolstoy's characterizations are brilliant, his account of the Battle of Borodino masterful. Read it! I'm glad I did. ;)
What this town needs is a good Renaissance band!

Early MusiChicago - Early Music in Chicago and Beyond - http://earlymusichicago.org

PIKT - Global-View, Site-at-a-Time System and Network Administration - http://pikt.org

AGElint - an AGE debugging toolkit - http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2978333

Your Mileage May Vary -- Always!

User avatar
Mosby
Lieutenant
Posts: 104
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:03 am

Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:23 pm

I'm reading it right now, as well as downloading the demo. :)
"Have you got the rascal?" "No but he has got you!"

User avatar
Paul Roberts
Posts: 520
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2007 9:26 pm
Location: Between the Schuylkill and the Wissahickon

Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:48 pm

berto wrote:War and Peace is a truly great book. Tolstoy's characterizations are brilliant, his account of the Battle of Borodino masterful. Read it! I'm glad I did. ;)


I read it last year in the new Pevear and Volokhonsky translation, and I honestly couldn't put it down. I was actually staying up to read sixty or seventy-five pages a night (well, until I got to Tolstoy's appended essay on history...).

P & V did all of Dostoevsky before turning to Tolstoy. They're definitely my choice for reading "the Russians" in English.

User avatar
jastaV
AGEod Guard of Honor
Posts: 1159
Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2008 9:22 am

Thu Jan 15, 2009 11:00 pm

NCP "engine" is to be re-visited in some aspects.
Battle resolution, use of cavalry according to Napoleonic age doctrine, regard for attrition rules and their effect over forces by the AI opponent.
There are then troubles with many scenarios: wrong replacements, missing event notification, un-working events, duplicate units.
Anyway, AFAIK the game is stable and troubles do not hamper scenarios conclusions.
And you have to be a Napoleonic game purist to get feeling of most troubles.

AI is weak when compared to a non AI opponent; you get soon feeling of that playing just few turns in a PBEM game.
But that Rafiki is right: you can get hundreds of hours of enjoyment playing against Athena.

A negative issue to consider is the lower assistance for improvements NCP received in comparison to other AGEod titles.
BTW a got news Pocus planned to rework some issues related to NCP engine: he could better confirm (or deny) that.

Do not build up your definitive opinion over NCP over the demo you are going to download: it was published time ago and some features of the game were not included.
Ney: The army will not move!
Napoleon: The army will obey me!
Ney: The army will obey to its Generals’ orders!

[SIZE="1"]Fontainebleau, April 1814[/size]

User avatar
Mosby
Lieutenant
Posts: 104
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:03 am

Thu Jan 15, 2009 11:28 pm

I know that the demo isn't anything to judge the game by, but I really just wanted to get my hands on anything to play from this game.

In the end, just like I did with BOA2, I'll probably pick this game up. I know that it isn't getting a ton of support, but it seems like y'all know that, so who knows? Maybe something crazy will happen.
"Have you got the rascal?" "No but he has got you!"

Maqver
Corporal
Posts: 61
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2008 5:38 am

Thu Jan 15, 2009 11:50 pm

As a gamer, I prefer the full campaign possibilities available in AACW, but something about the NCP era and aura really captures me. It's too bad that some recent modding work didn't pan out.

Are there plans to import the more recent improvements of WIA and AACW into NCP?


Yeah, I am with you. I love the period. Here's hoping for a campaign Nap game someday.

User avatar
Franciscus
Posts: 4571
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2007 8:31 pm
Location: Portugal

Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:15 am

Pocus wrote:That's a bit dispiriting to read that people are badly disappointed by the AI, given than several thousands of hours went into it since the start. Perhaps we should only provide games without AI then? This would sure cut on the costs, in these time of crisis. :(


Only now have I read, with mounting horror, this phrase. Either you are talking serious, which I do not believe, or you are joking (either is not a good sign, probably meaning you are over-stressed with ongoing work :bonk :) .
Know that although no AI is (yet ?) perfect, your efforts as game developer are surely on the edge of it's development. Athena is a damn good opponent, in my regard, and gave (and gives) me many hours of joy.

One thing for sure: If you start making games without AI you will loose me as a customer.

Back to topic, I never played NCP much. Why ? Several reasons: a sad lack of free time, and loving so much AACW that I can not leave it if possible, are very important. But the lack of a Grand Campaign similar to AACW is surely a factor. The main issue is the general lack of possibility, to the player in NCP, of deciding the buildup of his brigades, divisions, corps and armies as in AACW, not so much the relative lack of economic or politic options (which in AACW, IMHO are also not that much developed). As a personal note, some innacuracies, namely in the map, also have make it difficult to me to "get" into NCP. The day shall come, however :D

User avatar
Nial
Colonel
Posts: 370
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 6:21 pm
Location: Hotel California

Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:29 am

Franciscus wrote:
Know that although no AI is (yet ?) perfect, your efforts as game developer are surely on the edge of it's development. Athena is a damn good opponent, in my regard, and gave (and gives) me many hours of joy.



I second this statement.

I have spent many hours of enjoyment with all AGEod's games. NCP included.

Nial
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

User avatar
Pocus
Posts: 25418
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 7:37 am
Location: Lyon (France)

Fri Jan 16, 2009 9:46 am

Despite its shortcomings, yes I do plan to still work on the AI.
Image


Hofstadter's Law: "It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's law."

User avatar
jastaV
AGEod Guard of Honor
Posts: 1159
Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2008 9:22 am

Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:25 am

Pocus wrote:Despite its shortcomings, yes I do plan to still work on the AI.


+1 :thumbsup:


AI is weak when compared to a non AI opponent; you get soon feeling of that playing just few turns in a PBEM game.
But that Rafiki is right: you can get hundreds of hours of enjoyment playing against Athena.


AI is to be improved not be be re-worked from the start! :neener:

Notice: AI weakness is not a peculiar NCP issue.
I just completed "Few Acres of Snow" from WIA and AI disappointed me. Some wrong AI moves conditionated the game! :( :blink:
Ney: The army will not move!

Napoleon: The army will obey me!

Ney: The army will obey to its Generals’ orders!



[SIZE="1"]Fontainebleau, April 1814[/size]

User avatar
Mosby
Lieutenant
Posts: 104
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:03 am

Fri Jan 16, 2009 6:31 pm

I'm actually not doing too hot as the french in the demo scenario...seems like the AI is fine for me.

Great game so far.
"Have you got the rascal?" "No but he has got you!"

vcczar
Private
Posts: 23
Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2008 1:31 am

the demo

Sat Jan 17, 2009 4:13 am

In the demo, I think the AI is easy, only because the French have SUCH an enormous advantage. They're superior in every element of that campaign (as they were at the time). The campaign begins with the troops at a advantageous position. To make it more difficult, I think, the campaign would have to start as the Napoleon is leaving Paris. This would give the Prussian/Russians time to coordinate some sort of defense and also allow the French player the possibility of not massing his forces and committing a mistake. I love the demo though. It's great fun.

I think if the Russian troops were in Germany from the beginning, the average player could still win as the French. The officers are much better overall for the French and Napoleon and Davout rule the scenerio. The Prussian have too many old slow commanders. I've had Davout, with 2,000 men defeat 40,000 Prussians at one time. :) the challenge is being the allies. I have won on the demo with them, but not convincingly, the game just told me I won.

stegosarus_army
Sergeant
Posts: 97
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 7:13 am
Location: Tucson, Az

Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:19 am

Pocus wrote:Despite its shortcomings, yes I do plan to still work on the AI.


im looking forward to this...
any news you can give us for whats in the works?

Return to “Napoleon's Campaigns”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests