Late war Confederates vs Early war

[McNaughton]

In my modding, I have noticed that Later war Confederate forces are actually poorer quality than early war Confederate soldiers in many aspects.

Troop Quality, Assault, and Cohesion dropped from the Early war to the Late war versions.

Union infantry improve in quality, with both CS and US late war Infantry being identical (Early war has a distinct edge for the Confederates).

Just trying to get a consensus, should the Confederate forces experience a drop in quality from their early war to their late war, or should they improve (or at least retain quality) from early to late war (as the Union does)?

[PBBoeye]

Hard to say, but an interesting question.

My concept is that the CSA at the end of the war had grizzled vets along with the worst of conscripted soldiers - the physical dredges that the South had left. So it's a yin-yang kind of thing.

[color="Gray"]CSA[/color] used replacements, while [color="RoyalBlue"]USA[/color] formed new divisions quite often. So a lot of greenies in the Fed ranks, whereas vets were there in CSA units to help the newbies.

My thinking is that [color="Gray"]CSA quality and cohesion should remain stable[/color]. This reflects the veteran presence that balances out the presence of the poorest of conscripts. For the USA, I could see quality improvement in that they honed their orientation process for the green troops.

So USA can increase (slightly), but CSA should not decrease, but stay stable across the board.

This is just my opinion and concept.

[veji1]

I think the US forces should progress very significantly as war goes on, while CSA forces should progress very lightly, or almost not at all, so that they are equal or USA is slightly better by the end of the war.

A big part of late war CSA problems, and therefore quality difference should be handled by cohesion loss from CSA forces as war wears on.

[veji1]

by the way, this thread makes me think of the attrition issue not solved so far by Pocus, and all, ie that troops do not suffer enough attrition from active campaigning, battles excluded.

[Pocus]

This is fixed, for me at least. You lose a bunch of cohesion when you march into enemy territory.

[Clovis]

IMHO, lower ratings for CSA NEW units at the end of the war is right in order to simulate the relative lack of manpower in the last years, conscription affecting the younger, the older, the sicks...

In the same time, replacement refilling the veteran units is giving a sense of the interest to cadre green troops by experienced veterans.

So you should have CSA veterans with experience in smaller numbers, CSA new brigades of worse quality, USA vetran units difficult to replenish thanks to the game rules, and USA green units, with better stats ( reflecting better drill, better physical shape...) but no experience

[veji1]

Hmmm.. If that is possible, this is very clever.

[McNaughton]

IMHO, lower ratings for CSA NEW units at the end of the war is right in order to simulate the relative lack of manpower in the last years, conscription affecting the younger, the older, the sicks...

In the same time, replacement refilling the veteran units is giving a sense of the interest to cadre green troops by experienced veterans.

So you should have CSA veterans with experience in smaller numbers, CSA new brigades of worse quality, USA vetran units difficult to replenish thanks to the game rules, and USA green units, with better stats ( reflecting better drill, better physical shape...) but no experience

I think I need to clarify things on what (I see) the different range of models represent. I think that the concept of 'late war' is stretched later than it is.

#1. Conscript Volunteer: Avaliable in game from 1861-1865

These are regiments quickly recruited, representing a wide range of men emplolyed in a regiment. These regiments tended to be larger, and actually well equipped, but the quality of men and thoroughness of training is somewhat limited. Weaponry range from smoothbores to rifled muskets.

Upside: Cheap and quick to recruit and larger
Downside: Weaker in all aspects than other volunteer units

#2. Early Volunteer: Primarily in game from 1861-1863 (virtually all convert to late by 1863)

These represent the volunteer forces that were given more substantial training in regards to the tactics and use of their weaponry. While not necessarily veterans, they are better prepared for combat than conscripts. Depending on the theatre they are well armed (about 1/4 to 1/2 used smoothbores, most notably in the Confederate West). However, 'quality control' is greater meaning that the size of the regiment is smaller (more deserters, men away sick, etc.), but to paraphrase Confederates in 1862 "all the cowards are gone".

Upside: Capable and well equipped
Downside: Longer to train, more expensive

#3. Late Volunteer: Avaliable in game from 1862-1865 (although very common by 1863)

To me, these represent the lessons learned during the war in regards to equipping and training soldiers. Formations are looser (in this respect, I give units +1 protection) yet most weapons are rifled (in the case of East 100%, out west still utilized smoothbores but at significantly lower numbers). The late war regiment represents the troops that fought in 1863-64, in some of the critical battles.

Upside: Virtually equivalent to pre-war regulars in discipline and capability
Downside: Smaller units, longer to train, more expensive

--SUMMARY--

The way I see things, the change of troops over time represents the gradual development of a Civil War regiment from the rabble of 1861 to the proffesional soldier of 1863. Troops in 1861 (represented by conscripts) could hardly be taught to march in a straight line, let alone fight in coherent formations, the troops who routed at 1st Bull Run and fought at Shiloh. Troops in 1862 (represented by early volunteers) had the pre-war training induced in them, but were handicapped by obsolete tactics, the troops who fought at Antietam. Troops in 1863 (represented by late volunteers) are the regiments who benefitted from war experience on how they should be trained, manoevered on the field and equipped, the troops at Gettysburg and Spotsylvania.

The 'bleeding' of Confederate regiments didn't seem to happen until after the representation of 'late war volunteers' (Late war represent troops in 1863, the thinning of troops in late 1864/65). Even here, the training, tactics and equipment of a very late war regiment would be superior to that of an early war. In a way, I represent this by the player manually mobilizing 'conscript' units.