Regimental Strength Mod

[Stonewall]

I've had a couple people PM me about this, so I decided to upload and make it available to those who want to experiment with a mod. This mod is based solely on my own opinions and is not meant to detract from teh wonderful work done by AGEOD. It started as an experiment and has evolved into the best single player experience I've had.

I have no idea how the increased hit points will intereact with the modified combat model released in 1.04. It was created with 1.02 and worked well with 1.03. Feedback is appreciated.

EDIT: LINK DELETED

This user modification alters the number of men and hits in all existing USA and CSA regiments. It also modifies, somewhat, the artillery values to reflect the difference between the 10lb Parrott (includes 3-inch rifled guns) rifled pieces and the 12 lb Napoleon smoothbore pieces.

Infantry/Cavalry

All infantry and cavalry regiments have had their strengths altered. Confederate regular infantry and cavalry now have 40 hits (increase from 20) and 15 men per hit (decrease from 50) for a toal regimental strength of 600 men. USA regular infantry and cavalry now have 35 hits (increase from 20) and 15 men per hit (decrease from 50) for a total regimental strength of 525 men. Other tweaks to light infantry, sharpshooters and other light units have been implemented to reflect an increased number of hits and a decreased number of men per hit. Overall regimental manpower of these irregular forces remain as close to the original as possible.

Volunteers and state militia (both Union and Confederate) now have 25 hits (increase from 15) and 20 men per hit (decrease from 50) for a total regimental strength of 500 soldiers.

There have been no cost adjustments in terms of money, conscripts, or war supplies for any non-artillery units. This preserves the manpower, replacement, and cost ratios AGEOD has devised.

Artillery

The Parrots and 3-inch rifled guns are all morphed into one gun category, 10 lb Parrott. These guns had a rifled groove and were more suited to long range fire and packed a better more accurate fire from distance than the smoothbores. However, they were less effective in close quarters. This is reflected by a slightly higher offensive rating for the rifled pieces and a slightly higher defensive rating for the smoothbores. The original files reflect the 12 lb as a superior weapon in all regards and it costs less to boot. This mod will correct that.

The Confederate Columbiads were not long range counterparts to the federal Rodman guns, as they are portrayed. They were shorter ranged large caliber pieces. Hence, their range has been reduced from 7 to 5 (the same range as the 6 lb smoothbore).

Federal guns have slightly increased values for both offensive and defensive fire (as compared to the CSA) due to higher quality guns and ammunition. Moreover, the federal artillery batteries also have a 1 point advantage in quality over their CSA counterparts.

Horse Artillery for both armies has been changed to reflect the values of the rifled pieces in each respective army. 6 lb guns now upgrade to 12 lb guns. There are no further artillery upgrades. Small adjustments made to price of Horse Artillery, 10 lb, and 12 lb guns based on the new values.

Installation instructions are provided within the .zip file. Enjoy.

[hattrick]

Thanks!! ouet:

[type7]

Can you explain a little why this makes the game better? You explained the tech details fine, but what does this do to gameplay other than less men in a regiment? What does changing the hits do? An example perhaps? In stock, a battle might play out like this, but with this mod it would play out like this.

[Stonewall]

Can you explain a little why this makes the game better? You explained the tech details fine, but what does this do to gameplay other than less men in a regiment? What does changing the hits do? An example perhaps? In stock, a battle might play out like this, but with this mod it would play out like this.

Prior to the release of 1.04 with its new combat model, the mod as I designed it resulted in less destroyed elements and lower overall casualties in battle. Ultimately, that was the purpose, to make battle results a little more realistic and to prevent so many elements from being destroyed in a battle where one side was not annihilated following a siege or completely trounced by a force with 10 times the strength. It succeeded in that. I further modified it to give more reaslitic army sizes. Pure flavor, no game effect.

How these results translate into 1.04 with the new combat model is something I do not know.

[Gresbeck]

Pure flavor, no game effect.

But if the mod alters the number of men inside a regiment, shouldn't it impact on the number of men needed to build units, and on balance between men, war materials and money?

[Pocus]

no, the model don't change costs, so here there is no problem. Some side effects though of upping to 40 hits the regiments, is that some damages are perhaps not on par now, typical example, weather damages will be less problematic now that you have twice that number of hits per regiments.

If your main aim is to reduce the number of completely destroyed regiments during battle, then lowering the to hit chance for each point of combat rating can be a quick fix.

[McNaughton]

Interesting mod, parallels the one I am working on (down to having horse artillery as 3-inch Rifled).

My Regiments have the following representation of hits and men per hit. 24 hits, 25 men per hit (600 men total), or 30 hits, 20 men per hit. This does slightly increases the number of hits per unit, and decreases total men (without drastic unforseen implications). This does improve battle results, losses are less, and totally destroyed units decreased (while it still does happen).

One thing I am working on is virtually eliminating the 6-lb from the Union inventory (completely removed from Eastern troops), and replacing the gun primarily with 10-lb parrotts (representing 10-lb and 3-inch guns) as well as 12-lb napoleons.

I like what you did with the 10-lb and 12-lb, I was trying to figure out a way to make the 10-lb a more 'attractive' option (I was thinking about decreasing effective range of the 6-lb and 12-lb).

One note about the 3-inch compared to the parrott, while significantly more reliable (won't blow up on your crew) it cost about 2x as much, and much longer to forge.

[Franciscus]

@Pocus:

If your main aim is to reduce the number of completely destroyed regiments during battle, then lowering the to hit chance for each point of combat rating can be a quick fix.

So, are you talking about the line CbtHitCoef = 150 ?. If so, do you sugest maybe lowering it to 100 to reduce number of completely destroyed regiments ?
Has anyone tried it already ?

Thanks for your support !!

[McNaughton]

But if the mod alters the number of men inside a regiment, shouldn't it impact on the number of men needed to build units, and on balance between men, war materials and money?

Basically, since things are somewhat abstracted, the effects a regiment has on its combat ability (i.e., firepower, etc.) and cost (i.e., money, etc.) are the same, with just a visual change of number of men per unit (a regiment is still the same 'size', relative to other units, just reads at a different number of men).

The only in-game effect are the artillery changes, as well as the increase of numbers of hits from 20 to 40 (you could put 10 000 men per hit, and it would only affect the number of men you see in-game, purely flavour).

[Korrigan]

Interesting stuff

[marecone]

Interesting stuff

Yap. I second that.

[Pocus]

@Pocus:




So, are you talking about the line CbtHitCoef = 150 ?. If so, do you sugest maybe lowering it to 100 to reduce number of completely destroyed regiments ?
Has anyone tried it already ?

Thanks for your support !!

start with 125 for some tests before going to 100, this would be quite a big reduction

[type7]

Prior to the release of 1.04 with its new combat model, the mod as I designed it resulted in less destroyed elements and lower overall casualties in battle. Ultimately, that was the purpose, to make battle results a little more realistic and to prevent so many elements from being destroyed in a battle where one side was not annihilated following a siege or completely trounced by a force with 10 times the strength. It succeeded in that. I further modified it to give more reaslitic army sizes. Pure flavor, no game effect.

How these results translate into 1.04 with the new combat model is something I do not know.

Ok, thank you for the info. I wasn't sure exactly how what you changed would change the game, sounds great

[gbs]

Can someone tell me where I can find and change this CbtHitCoef=150 that pocus is talking about.

[Spruce]

go the last lines in the patch readme text. There it says how to find the right file

[Franciscus]

Well, tried Shiloh with CbtHitCoef = 125, and overall I got much more believable results: number of casualties and no or less number of totally destroyed regiments (see for exemple the attached picture; I believe that in this kind of battle several regiments would probably get destoyed with the default settings).
Nevertheless I did manage to destroy the Army of Tenessee and killing Grant , although most of the losses were prisioners. Maybe I will try 100...

So, I urge all of you struggling with the problem of frequent total regiment loss of the battles in AACW to try and change this setting !

[Stonewall]

Was that result simply the result of the CbtHitCoef change, or was it also in conjunction with the mod I posted?

[Stonewall]

I am going to take down the download for this. It works horribly with the new patch in my opinion. The additional hits each unit recieved have made the units even more powerful, nullifying the idea that damage was supposed to be toned down and element destruction decreased. Additionally, I think Pocus has largely fixed the battle problems with 1.04 and the exported combat values that we can all tweak on our own.

In short. It no longer works and harms gameplay. I'll revise the numbers and reupload the artillery changes in case anyone wants them and I'll also tweak the men per hit again to give a more historical flavor regarding unit sizes in terms of number of soldiers. I'm not aware of any gamaplay effects of changing men per hit, so it should neither add nor detract from the functionality.

Apologies for anyone who got some unanticipated combat results. 1.04 is really working well.

[Franciscus]

Was that result simply the result of the CbtHitCoef change, or was it also in conjunction with the mod I posted?

Only changing CbtHitCoef.
I might be interested though in your artllery and men per hit changes, though

[Pocus]

we are interested by your tweaks and views on the various artilleries, can you post your suggested changes of stats for them (like why you reduce or augment range and such?)

[McNaughton]

Regarding unit strength, here's another idea for some flavour.

How about giving conscript infantry 700 men per regiment (vs. 600) representing their relavite 'fresh' state (i.e., being closer to full strength). When trained to 'regular volunteer', they will adapt the new organization (fewer men). This way, you can have conscript troops somewhat more worth while as they have more 'hits' (maybe a few? or just increase men per hit), but are still statistically 'weaker' than trained volunteers.

[Stonewall]

we are interested by your tweaks and views on the various artilleries, can you post your suggested changes of stats for them (like why you reduce or augment range and such?)

The 12lb Napoleons represent the Model 1857 Napoleon field gun as well as the 12lb Howitzer. These are smoothbore cannon with the 1857 having an effective range of about 1600 yards and the howitzer (short barreled) having a range of about 1100 yards. They have bore diameter of about 4.62 inches and propel a shell weigning about 12 pounds. These guns are not terribly effective at long range fire due to the bronze construction and lack of rifling. At close range (250 yards and under), they are devastating with case and cannister shot.

The 10 lb Parrott model represents the 10 lb Parrot rifled gun (2000 yard max effective range) as well as the 3 inch Rifled Gun (1850 yard max effective range) commonly referred to as a 3-inch Ordnance Rifle. The 10lb Parrott has a bore diameter of 2.9 inches and the Ordnance Rifle 3 inches. Early on, construction on Parrots increased the bore diameter to 3 inches to promote uniformity in ordnance. The significant feature of these class of guns is the smaller bore (as compared with the Napoleons) and the rifled grooves. This allows a smaller projective to be used at great effect at longer ranges due to the accuracy promoted by the rifling and the superior materials (cast iron and wrought iron respectively) used in construction of the Parrots and 3-inchers. While having more effect at greater range than the Napoleons, they pack a smaller punch at close range due to the smaller projectile size holding less shrapnel in the case and cannister shot.

Based on these differences and the way artillery was used in the war, the rifled guns were more effective in offensive situations due their increased range and the Napoleons better suited to the defense based on their larger caliber shells.

The 20lb Parrott has a 3.67 inch rifled bore diameter allowing it to fire larger projectiles at the same distance with the same effectiveness as the 10lb Parrott and 3-inch rifle. Its superior on both the offense and defense to the rifled pieces as well as the 12lb Napoleons.

The Confederate Columbiad represents a number of guns ranging from 8 to 20 inches in bore diameter. They were primarily used as River and Coastal Defense pieces due to their enormous weight and the difficulty of moving the gun, the massive quantities of powder required to fire the gun, and the massive projectiles the gun fired. Additionally, they were preferred as Mississippi River Defense units due to the immense weight of the Comumbiad shells being fired from bluffs down onto the top of Union ironclad vessels operating on the rivers. They were infinitely more effective in this role than the smaller 10 and 12 pound pieces. I've reduced the movement of these beasts as well due to their large size.

I have chosed to treat the Columbiad as a mishmash of larger caliber pieces used by the Confederate forces that are similar, but ultimately inferior to the Federal Rodman guns. The primary reason I decreased their effective range is that the Confederacy, right from the outset of hostilities, lacked sufficient supplies of gunpowder. The large caliber pieces are noted for the range they can fire heavy projectiles at. The Confederacy simply lacked the powder to use large caliber guns at their effective ranges. So, I decreased the range from 7 to 5 to reflect an inherent lack of sufficient powder stores as an offset for these very powerful guns.

Horse Artillery needed to be as light as possible to keep up with the accompanying cavalry brigades it was attached to. Both the Union and Confederacy primarily equipped their horse batteries with 10lb Parrots and 3-inch Ordnance Guns because their iron construction made them 1/2 the weight of an equivalent bronze gun. The Confederacy, early in the war, used 6lb howitzers, but once a large enough supply of Federal guns was captured, almost exclusively equipped their mounted artillery with pieces in the 10lb Parrott class of weapons. So, what I did in the game files was to alter the stats of horse artillery models of each side with their accompanying 10lb Parrott stats. Due to the mounted nature of the guns, they retained their initiative bonus.

There is also a difference between Federal and Confederate pieces of the same type. Federal pieces recieved a +1 bonus to offensive, defensive, and troop quality. This is a reflection of superior federal training for artillerymen, superior materials, superior guns, superior ordnance, and superior powder. I made no changes to coastal or fort artillery.

Additionally, I altered the primary unit upgrades. 12lb Napoleons did not upgrade during the war to 20lb Parrots as they do in the game. The only real upgrading that took place was the 6 lb guns were phased out and replaced by 12 lb Napoleons. 12 lb Napoleons did not get upgraded to 20 lb Parrots. New batteries were commissioned and those units would join existing armies. As a result, I deleted the automatic upgrading and changed the 6 lb smoothbore from upgrading into a 10lb Parrott and made it turn into a 12 lb Napoleon.

Below are the modified files with the old value in parenthesis. I also reduced the cohesion damage inflicted by the smoothbores from 15 to 12 and did the same for the assault cohesion damage for the 10lb Parrotts.

I'm toying around with manipulating the artillery ranges as well. I think artillery is too powerful at long range and engages too far away before forces can close for infantry battle.I think this is one reason we see so many lopsided battle results between forces with vastly different amounts of artillery. This change, however, needs more testing and is not included here.

Code: Select all

UID = 18
NationTag = CSA
Name = Horse Artillery
Alias = mdl_CSA_Art0
ShortName = Horse Artillery
Text = $mdl_txt_CSA_Art0
Kind = $Land
SubType = $Artillery
Family = $famMedArty (light)
ImageID = symbol_horsearty.png
Color = $colCSARegular
Portrait = mdl_CMN_HorseArty1.png
OffFire = 17 (6)
DefFire = 24 (11)
Initiative = 8
Range = 6 (4)
ROF = 2
Protection = 0
TQ = 8
Assault = 5 (4)
Hits = 6
MenPerHit = 25
Cohesion = 85 (80)
DmgDone = 3 (2)
CohDone = 12
AsltDmgDone = 3
AsltCohDone = 15
Move Type = $MedHorse
Move Ratio = 100
CohMove = 100
DetectLand = 2
DetectSea = 3
Blockade = 0
HideValue = 1
Weight = 1
ProgRate = 20
Police = 0
Patrol = 2
Evasion = 10
CapturePerc = 5
IsSupport = 1
SupplyUsage = 2
SupplyStore = 4
AmmoUsage = 4
AmmoStore = 8
ShareSupply = 0
SupHitPen = 25
SupMovePen = 35
SupCbtPen = 75
VPValue = 1
POLValue = 0
MoneyCost = 20 (14)
Conscriptcost = 2
WarSupplyCost = 6 (3)
BuildRate = 33


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UID = 19
NationTag = CSA
Name = 6 lb pounder
Alias = mdl_CSA_Art1
ShortName = 6 lb pounder
Text = $mdl_txt_CSA_Art1
Kind = $Land
SubType = $Artillery
Family = $famLightArty
ImageID = symbol_lightarty.png
Color = $colCSARegular
Portrait = mdl_CMN_ArtyParrot10.png
OffFire = 10
DefFire = 18
Initiative = 7
Range = 5
ROF = 2
Protection = 0
TQ = 7
Assault = 4
Hits = 6
MenPerHit = 25
Cohesion = 75
DmgDone = 2
CohDone = 12
AsltDmgDone = 3
AsltCohDone = 15
Move Type = $Wheeled
Move Ratio = 100
CohMove = 100
DetectLand = 2
DetectSea = 3
Blockade = 0
HideValue = 1
Weight = 2
ProgRate = 20
Police = 0
Patrol = 1
Evasion = 1
PrimUpg = $mdl_CSA_Art2 ($mdl_CSA_Art3)
CapturePerc = 12
IsSupport = 1
SupplyUsage = 2
SupplyStore = 4
AmmoUsage = 4
AmmoStore = 8
ShareSupply = 0
SupHitPen = 25
SupMovePen = 35
SupCbtPen = 75
VPValue = 1
POLValue = 0
MoneyCost = 11
Conscriptcost = 2
WarSupplyCost = 3
BuildRate = 33


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UID = 20
NationTag = CSA
Name = 12 lb pounder
Alias = mdl_CSA_Art2
ShortName = 12 lb pounder
Text = $mdl_txt_CSA_Art2
Kind = $Land
SubType = $Artillery
Family = $famMedArty
ImageID = symbol_arty.png
Color = $colCSARegular
Portrait = mdl_CMN_ArtyParrot10.png
OffFire = 15 (16)
DefFire = 26 (25)
Initiative = 7
Range = 6
ROF = 2
Protection = 0
TQ = 7
Assault = 5
Hits = 6
MenPerHit = 25
Cohesion = 75
DmgDone = 3
CohDone = 12 (15)
AsltDmgDone = 3
AsltCohDone = 15
Move Type = $Wheeled
Move Ratio = 100
CohMove = 100
DetectLand = 2
DetectSea = 3
Blockade = 0
HideValue = 1
Weight = 2
ProgRate = 20
Police = 0
Patrol = 1
Evasion = 1
CapturePerc = 12
IsSupport = 1
SupplyUsage = 2
SupplyStore = 4
AmmoUsage = 4
AmmoStore = 8
ShareSupply = 0
SupHitPen = 25
SupMovePen = 35
SupCbtPen = 75
VPValue = 1
POLValue = 0
MoneyCost = 14
Conscriptcost = 2
WarSupplyCost = 4
BuildRate = 33


Code: Select all

UID = 21
NationTag = CSA
Name = 10 lb Parrott
Alias = mdl_CSA_Art3
ShortName = 10 lb Parrott
Text = $mdl_txt_CSA_Art3
Kind = $Land
SubType = $Artillery
Family = $famMedArty
ImageID = symbol_arty.png
Color = $colCSARegular
Portrait = mdl_CMN_Arty12lb.png
OffFire = 17 (15)
DefFire = 24 (23)
Initiative = 7
Range = 6
ROF = 2
Protection = 0
TQ = 7
Assault = 5
Hits = 6
MenPerHit = 25
Cohesion = 75
DmgDone = 3
CohDone = 15
AsltDmgDone = 3
AsltCohDone = 12 (15)
Move Type = $Wheeled
Move Ratio = 100
CohMove = 100
DetectLand = 2
DetectSea = 3
Blockade = 0
HideValue = 1
Weight = 2
ProgRate = 20
Police = 0
Patrol = 1
Evasion = 1
CapturePerc = 12
IsSupport = 1
SupplyUsage = 2
SupplyStore = 4
AmmoUsage = 4
AmmoStore = 8
ShareSupply = 0
SupHitPen = 25
SupMovePen = 35
SupCbtPen = 75
VPValue = 1
POLValue = 0
MoneyCost = 20
Conscriptcost = 2
WarSupplyCost = 5 (6)
BuildRate = 33


Code: Select all

UID = 22
NationTag = CSA
Name = 20 lb Parrott
Alias = mdl_CSA_Art4
ShortName = 20 lb Parrott
Text = $mdl_txt_CSA_Art4
Kind = $Land
SubType = $Artillery
Family = $famMedArty
ImageID = symbol_arty.png
Color = $colCSARegular
Portrait = mdl_CMN_Arty12lb.png
OffFire = 19
DefFire = 27
Initiative = 7
Range = 7
ROF = 2
Protection = 0
TQ = 7
Assault = 5
Hits = 6
MenPerHit = 25
Cohesion = 75
DmgDone = 3
CohDone = 15
AsltDmgDone = 3
AsltCohDone = 15
Move Type = $Wheeled
Move Ratio = 100
CohMove = 100
DetectLand = 2
DetectSea = 3
Blockade = 0
HideValue = 1
Weight = 2
ProgRate = 20
Police = 0
Patrol = 0
Evasion = 1
CapturePerc = 12
IsSupport = 1
SupplyUsage = 2
SupplyStore = 4
AmmoUsage = 4
AmmoStore = 8
ShareSupply = 0
SupHitPen = 25
SupMovePen = 35
SupCbtPen = 75
VPValue = 1
POLValue = 0
MoneyCost = 26
Conscriptcost = 2
WarSupplyCost = 7 (8)
BuildRate = 25


Code: Select all

UID = 23
NationTag = CSA
Name = Columbiad
Alias = mdl_CSA_Art5
ShortName = Columbiad
Text = $mdl_txt_CSA_Art5
Kind = $Land
SubType = $Artillery
Family = $famMedArty
ImageID = symbol_arty.png
Color = $colCSARegular
Portrait = mdl_CMN_Arty12lb.png
OffFire = 24 (21)
DefFire = 30 (28)
Initiative = 7
Range = 5 (7)
ROF = 2
Protection = 0
TQ = 7
Assault = 5
Hits = 6
MenPerHit = 25
Cohesion = 75
DmgDone = 3
CohDone = 20
AsltDmgDone = 3
AsltCohDone = 15
Move Type = $Wheeled
Move Ratio = 75
CohMove = 100
DetectLand = 2
DetectSea = 3
Blockade = 0
HideValue = 1
Weight = 3
ProgRate = 20
Police = 0
Patrol = 1
Evasion = 1
CapturePerc = 12
IsSupport = 1
SupplyUsage = 2
SupplyStore = 4
AmmoUsage = 4
AmmoStore = 8
ShareSupply = 0
SupHitPen = 25
SupMovePen = 35
SupCbtPen = 75
VPValue = 1
POLValue = 0
MoneyCost = 26
Conscriptcost = 2
WarSupplyCost = 8
BuildRate = 33


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UID = 92
NationTag = USA
Name = Horse Artillery
Alias = mdl_USA_Art0
ShortName = Horse Artillery
Text = $mdl_txt_USA_Art0
Kind = $Land
SubType = $Artillery
Family = $famLightArty
ImageID = symbol_horsearty.png
Color = $colUSARegular
Portrait = mdl_CMN_HorseArty1.png
OffFire = 18 (6)
DefFire = 25 (12)
Initiative = 8
Range = 6 (4)
ROF = 2
Protection = 0
TQ = 8
Assault = 4
Hits = 6
MenPerHit = 25
Cohesion = 80
DmgDone = 3
CohDone = 15 (12)
AsltDmgDone = 3
AsltCohDone = 12 (15)
Move Type = $MedHorse
Move Ratio = 100
CohMove = 100
DetectLand = 2
DetectSea = 2
Blockade = 0
HideValue = 1
Weight = 1
ProgRate = 20
Police = 0
Patrol = 2
Evasion = 10
CapturePerc = 5
IsSupport = 1
SupplyUsage = 2
SupplyStore = 4
AmmoUsage = 4
AmmoStore = 8
ShareSupply = 0
SupHitPen = 25
SupMovePen = 35
SupCbtPen = 75
VPValue = 1
POLValue = 0
MoneyCost = 20 (14)
Conscriptcost = 2
WarSupplyCost = 6 (3)
BuildRate = 33


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UID = 93
NationTag = USA
Name = 6 lb pounder
Alias = mdl_USA_Art1
ShortName = 6 lb pounder
Text = $mdl_txt_USA_Art1
Kind = $Land
SubType = $Artillery
Family = $famLightArty
ImageID = symbol_lightarty.png
Color = $colUSARegular
Portrait = mdl_CMN_ArtyParrot10.png
OffFire = 10
DefFire = 19
Initiative = 7
Range = 5
ROF = 2
Protection = 0
TQ = 8 (7)
Assault = 4
Hits = 6
MenPerHit = 25
Cohesion = 80 (75)
DmgDone = 2
CohDone = 12
AsltDmgDone = 3
AsltCohDone = 15
Move Type = $Wheeled
Move Ratio = 100
CohMove = 100
DetectLand = 2
DetectSea = 3
Blockade = 0
HideValue = 1
Weight = 2
ProgRate = 20
Police = 0
Patrol = 1
Evasion = 1
PrimUpg = $mdl_USA_Art2 ($mdl_USA_Art3)
CapturePerc = 12
IsSupport = 1
SupplyUsage = 2
SupplyStore = 4
AmmoUsage = 4
AmmoStore = 8
ShareSupply = 0
SupHitPen = 25
SupMovePen = 35
SupCbtPen = 75
VPValue = 1
POLValue = 0
MoneyCost = 12
Conscriptcost = 2
WarSupplyCost = 2
BuildRate = 33


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UID = 94
NationTag = USA
Name = 12 lb pounder
Alias = mdl_USA_Art2
ShortName = 12 lb pounder
Text = $mdl_txt_USA_Art2
Kind = $Land
SubType = $Artillery
Family = $famMedArty
ImageID = symbol_arty.png
Color = $colUSARegular
Portrait = mdl_CMN_ArtyParrot10.png
OffFire = 16 (17)
DefFire = 27 (26)
Initiative = 7
Range = 6
ROF = 2
Protection = 0
TQ = 8 (7)
Assault = 5
Hits = 6
MenPerHit = 25
Cohesion = 80 (75)
DmgDone = 3
CohDone = 12 (15)
AsltDmgDone = 3
AsltCohDone = 15
Move Type = $Wheeled
Move Ratio = 100
CohMove = 100
DetectLand = 2
DetectSea = 3
Blockade = 0
HideValue = 1
Weight = 2
ProgRate = 20
Police = 0
Patrol = 1
Evasion = 1
CapturePerc = 12
IsSupport = 1
SupplyUsage = 2
SupplyStore = 4
AmmoUsage = 4
AmmoStore = 8
ShareSupply = 0
SupHitPen = 25
SupMovePen = 35
SupCbtPen = 75
VPValue = 1
POLValue = 0
MoneyCost = 15
Conscriptcost = 2
WarSupplyCost = 4
BuildRate = 33


Code: Select all

UID = 95
NationTag = USA
Name = 10 lb Parrott
Alias = mdl_USA_Art3
ShortName = 10 lb Parrott
Text = $mdl_txt_USA_Art3
Kind = $Land
SubType = $Artillery
Family = $famMedArty
ImageID = symbol_arty.png
Color = $colUSARegular
Portrait = mdl_CMN_Arty12lb.png
OffFire = 18 (16)
DefFire = 25 (24)
Initiative = 7
Range = 6
ROF = 2
Protection = 0
TQ = 8 (7)
Assault = 5
Hits = 6
MenPerHit = 25
Cohesion = 80 (75)
DmgDone = 3
CohDone = 15 (12)
AsltDmgDone = 3
AsltCohDone = 12 (15)
Move Type = $Wheeled
Move Ratio = 100
CohMove = 100
DetectLand = 2
DetectSea = 3
Blockade = 0
HideValue = 1
Weight = 2
ProgRate = 20
Police = 0
Patrol = 1
Evasion = 1
CapturePerc = 12
IsSupport = 1
SupplyUsage = 2
SupplyStore = 4
AmmoUsage = 4
AmmoStore = 8
ShareSupply = 0
SupHitPen = 25
SupMovePen = 35
SupCbtPen = 75
VPValue = 1
POLValue = 0
MoneyCost = 20 (18)
Conscriptcost = 2
WarSupplyCost = 5
BuildRate = 33


Code: Select all

UID = 96
NationTag = USA
Name = 20 lb Parrott
Alias = mdl_USA_Art4
ShortName = 20 lb Parrott
Text = $mdl_txt_USA_Art4
Kind = $Land
SubType = $Artillery
Family = $famMedArty
ImageID = symbol_arty.png
Color = $colUSARegular
Portrait = mdl_CMN_Arty12lb.png
OffFire = 21
DefFire = 29
Initiative = 7
Range = 7
ROF = 2
Protection = 0
TQ = 8 (7)
Assault = 5
Hits = 6
MenPerHit = 25
Cohesion = 80 (75)
DmgDone = 3
CohDone = 15
AsltDmgDone = 3
AsltCohDone = 15
Move Type = $Wheeled
Move Ratio = 100
CohMove = 100
DetectLand = 2
DetectSea = 3
Blockade = 0
HideValue = 1
Weight = 2
ProgRate = 20
Police = 0
Patrol = 0
Evasion = 1
CapturePerc = 12
IsSupport = 1
SupplyUsage = 2
SupplyStore = 4
AmmoUsage = 4
AmmoStore = 8
ShareSupply = 0
SupHitPen = 25
SupMovePen = 35
SupCbtPen = 75
VPValue = 1
POLValue = 0
MoneyCost = 21
Conscriptcost = 2
WarSupplyCost = 6
BuildRate = 33


Code: Select all

UID = 97
NationTag = USA
Name = Rodman Art.
Alias = mdl_USA_Art5
ShortName = Rodman Art.
Text = $mdl_txt_USA_Art5
Kind = $Land
SubType = $Artillery
Family = $famMedArty
ImageID = symbol_arty.png
Color = $colUSARegular
Portrait = mdl_CMN_Arty12lb.png
OffFire = 24 (23)
DefFire = 30
Initiative = 7
Range = 7
ROF = 2
Protection = 0
TQ = 8 (7)
Assault = 5
Hits = 6
MenPerHit = 25
Cohesion = 80 (75)
DmgDone = 3
CohDone = 20
AsltDmgDone = 3
AsltCohDone = 15
Move Type = $Wheeled
Move Ratio = 100
CohMove = 100
DetectLand = 2
DetectSea = 3
Blockade = 0
HideValue = 1
Weight = 2
ProgRate = 20
Police = 0
Patrol = 1
Evasion = 1
CapturePerc = 12
IsSupport = 1
SupplyUsage = 2
SupplyStore = 4
AmmoUsage = 4
AmmoStore = 8
ShareSupply = 0
SupHitPen = 25
SupMovePen = 35
SupCbtPen = 75
VPValue = 1
POLValue = 0
MoneyCost = 24
Conscriptcost = 2
WarSupplyCost = 7
BuildRate = 33


[McNaughton]

Here are some observations/suggestions.

I have read up a lot on artillery of this era, and the term 'effective range' was thrown around a lot. On paper, the effective range of the 12-lb napoleon and the 10-lb parrott was very similar. However, when you think about the curve of effectiveness of the rifled guns compared to the smoothbore, you will find that the rifled are more accurate at their furthest ranges compared to a smoothbore's furthest range.

So, on paper, a 12-lb and 6-lb should have stats of 5 and 6 range, and the 10-lb should have a 6 range (yet possibly bump this up to 7), but, the 10-lb was significantly more effective (some accounts of Federal accuracy at extreme ranges by Confederates states the relative helplessness they felt when under fire by Union Rifled Artillery at long ranges).

So, I think that decreasing effective range of the 12-lb and 6-lb guns would be more representing the true difference between the guns than having one better for offense, the other for defense (since defending it is valuable to have your gun firing from the longest possible ranges, to engage enemy artillery and infantry before they close range).

The way I envision Rifled vs Smoothbore, is that the smoothbore has whatever firepower they currently have, based on weight and effective use of shell, while their effective accurate range is cut shorter. This means that in battle, your Rifled guns will engage the enemy forces at range, while you have to wait for your Smoothbore guns to engage.

Effectively this gives your longer ranged guns extra hits, which (in most cases) will improve their effectiveness compared to smoothbore (since a 10-lb parrot fires 6 times in a battle, while a 12-lb napoleon fires only 4, due to range).

The 6-lb gun was next to useless, a relic used because of necessity. Federals re-bored them into 12-lb James Rifles which tended to wear out quickly, but Confederates used them, and tried to replace them with 12-lb napoleons. The Federals had about 60% of their guns being rifled 3-inch or 10-lb parrots, with the remaining 40% being 12-lb napoleons (based on looking at Eastern ToE, while the forces in the west used larger numbers of 12-lb guns, and even some 6-lb guns).

The goal of both sides was to use rifled guns, but due to necessity, and the fact that the 12-lb napoleon was still an effective gun, they still used some smoothbore weaponry. However, in the game as it currently is, the 10-lb costs more than the 12-lb napoleon (realistically the 10-lb was a very cheap gun to make), but it has equivalent if not weaker statistics (it is as good as the 12-lb, or weaker, making no sense to spend the extra cash on the gun).

I think that tweaking the range of the 6-lb and 12-lb to make the 10-lb more effective is the way to go.

6-lb range 4
12-lb range 5
10-lb range 7

This represents the guns 'effective and accurate' maximum range (while the 6-lb and 12-lb could fire further, their effectiveness as max range is nowhere near the same as the 10-lb, which itself has a greater range due to the rifled shell dynamics).

I did notice that AGEOD already had different statistics between Confederate and Union artillery, which are subtle yet there already.

The Change of horse artillery from a weak 6-lb into the 10-lb/3-inch rifled makes sense.

[Jagger]

Two very good posts on Civil War Artillery.

One additional point to add on the role and advantages of the rifled artillery. Due to superior, ranged accuracy, rifled artillery was effective in the counter battery role. Rifled artillery can hit and hurt enemy artillery at range beyond the ability of smooth bores.

Pre-assault bombardments by superior, rifled artillery can drive defensive enemy batteries off the field making the actual assault by infantry much, much easier. Smooth bore artillery was particularly vulnerable to counter battery fire as they lacked the ability to respond in kind with the same accuracy as the rifled weapons.

[Jagger]

Here are some observations/suggestions.

So, I think that decreasing effective range of the 12-lb and 6-lb guns would be more representing the true difference between the guns than having one better for offense, the other for defense (since defending it is valuable to have your gun firing from the longest possible ranges, to engage enemy artillery and infantry before they close range).

IIRC, the smoothbores, such as the 12 pounder, were significantly more effective than rifled weapons vs close range infantry because smoothbores could use cannister. My understanding is that rifled weapons could not use cannister because cannister would ruin rifling. Thus rifled weapons had to use solid shot even at close range.

Because cannister is far superior to solid shot vs close range infantry targets, I would expect to see smoothbores inflicting much greater damage at close range, 350-400 yards or less, than rifled artillery.

[Pocus]

Nice ongoing debate! When you are somehow agreeing on the details, we will tweak some data. Thanks.

[Stonewall]

McNaughton,

I understand what you are saying with regard to the range of the 10lbers versus the Napoleons. However, in terms of game mechanics, an artillery piece firing at range 7 has the same stats as an artillery piece firing cannister at 50 yards. While the rifled pieces were effective at longer ranges, I don't think that increasing their ranges relative to the Napoleons will accurately reproduce their advantages in terms of game mechanics.

I don't know enough about the combat engine and its actual mechanics to comment intelligently, but it would be nice to see some kind of sliding scale of unit effectiveness based on range engaged. This may very well already be in the engine, I have no idea.

The effective ranges are theoretical. Practically, the effective range for artillery was 800 yards and closer on level ground. Longer distances than 800 yards and the guns, rifled or not, have trouble hitting what they are aiming at. The Napoleons are effective from about 600 yards in, but still not to the degree the rifled pieces are. Only when the range closes to 300 yards and closer do the Napoleons truly show their significant advantages over the rifled pieces. The ability to load up cannister and double cannister at close range fighting made frontally assaulting a battery of Napoleons virtual suicide.

I'm ocncerned that by increasing ranges, we're giving short range effectiveness an even longer reach, which will only add to the disparity of combat results in battles where one side has rifled pieces and the other Napoleons. The simple fact ramins that long range artillery fire, while it can be effective as a counterbattery measure, was ineffective on infantry. The game stats do not make this distinction.

If the only change made is the reduction of Napoleons and 6lbers from 6 to 5, I think it would restore some semblance of balance. Right now, I avoid purchasing 10lb Parrots unless I have no other alternative due to the lower stats and increased cost as compared to the 12lb pieces. By making the Parrots longer ranged, it would justify the icnreased cost for the extra hits these units would provide.

That may be the simplest, if not the most elegant solution.

[McNaughton]

We have more options avaliable than just pure attack and defense.

There are basically two main rounds of combat, firing and assault. Firing happens at different ranges (I believe), while assault is at range zero.

Artillery's effectiveness against infantry was more psychological than physical. Being bombarded at range without any ability to do anything back is un-nerving, even if casualties are low. The increased effective range of rifled muskets meant that infantry can engage artillery at maximum cannister range, meaning that cannister at firing range wasn't as effective as it was as late as the 1848 war. Artillery was in limbo at this time, rifled muskets depleted their effect of cannister (which was only effective if infantry advanced too quickly, without attempting to suppress artillery with rifle fire), and the loose infantry tactics meant that long range shots didn't inflict enough damage (as you have said earlier).

I think we can model the effective use of cannister by smoothbores (rifled guns still were equipped with cannister, even with ill effects on the gun) through other means beyond raw power.

What does this mean? In my opinion, it means that cannister really was used effectively during the assault phase. The fire phase represents guns and rifles firing solid or explosive rounds (in the case of artillery), while assault represents bayonettes and cannister (getting in close).

So, we could represent the Smoothbores as guns very useful and can cause more physical damage in the assault phase (along with morale effects), however, the guns are significantly less useful in ranged firing.

Rifled artillery can be represented by effective ranged firing, but whose assault value isn't quite as high as smoothbore (they could use cannister, but the crews were keen more on retrieving their guns than to fight head on). Also, instead of inflicting physical damage at range, they would affect cohesion more than losses. A unit will be 'shaken' by artillery fire from range, meaning that they won't last long in an assault (if they get that close).

Koingratz in 1866 proved the valuable use of rifled artillery in supressing a foe. The Austrians managed to hold off the Prussians after their victory by effective fire pinning them down. The Prussians couldn't close in and annihilate the Austrians due to the Austrian artillery. It didn't inflict major losses, but, kept them pinned.

6-lb and 12-lb
Strengths:
Assault (+5% bonus chance to hit when in assault phase)
*Represents high accuracy of shotgun cannister fire
Assault Damage Done (number of hits done when an attack successful during assault phase)
*Represents savage results of cannister
Assault Cohesion Done (amount of cohesion lost by a unit per successful attack during assault phase)
*Represents morale lost due to the effects of cannister on elements of a unit


10-lb and 20-lb
Strengths:
Defensive Fire (+5% bonus chance to hit defending in ranged attack)
*Represents accurate firing at range, they tend to hit their target
Offensive Fire (+5% bonus chance to hit attacking in ranged attack)
*Represents accurate firing at range, they tend to hit their target
Initiative (determines order of firing, high initiative fires before low initiative)
*Represents these guns effectiveness at taking out smoothbores
Cohesion Done (amount of cohesion lost by a unit per successful attack during ranged phase)
*Represents that these guns don't necessarily 'destroy' at range (however, a single hit on artillery is 1/8 of their strength, while against infantry it is 1/20), but will demoralize (lower their cohesion).


Note that damage done is not very high for the 10 or 20-lb guns in any phase (their damage done will be greater than the smoothbore at range, but less during assault). Rifled guns will be useful at range as they have greater initiative, damage, and choesion effects than smoothbores (which are still useful at range, but not as good), while Smoothbores gain bonus' during the assault phase (where they can inflict some real damage).

Lowering damage done at range (2 by 6lb, 3 by the rest) for all guns (probably to about 1), but increasing cohesion damage done by all guns (presently at 12-15, probably raise rifled guns to 20-25, smoothbore can remain at 15). Increasing initiative of rifled guns to 8, keeping smoothbore at 7, will mean that rifled guns fire at range before any smoothbores will fire. Lower the assault damage of rifled guns to 2, and increase the damage of smoothbore to 4 (leave the 6lb at 3). Keep rifled gun cohesion damage during assault at 15, but increase smoothbore to 20-25.

This way, you end up with useful weaponry during both offense and defense (something that the AI can handle), but the smoothbore guns have a punch during the assault phase, while rifled guns have their effects felt during the ranged phase (assault phase is only one round, I believe, while ranged is multilpe, meaning total 'damage' by the units will probably be about the same).

This way both types are useful, different, but still worth while in purchasing.