wryun
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Unsatisfying experience with the AI

Fri Dec 14, 2007 5:04 am

Just finished my 3rd game of BoA (except for a couple of short scenarios), all playing the French & Indian War. Most enjoyable - it's really an excellent game - but somewhat disappointing, so I thought I'd have a whinge. It may even be useful feedback...

In the first game (French) I was going ok until I accidentally triggered the Iroquois in the 2nd year, at which point I restarted. Might be nice to have a warning about that.

The subsequent games ended in an easy win (French: 2500 vs 1700, still held Albany, Charleston, Quebec and Montreal among others!) and a ridiculously easy win (English: 3000 vs. 650, French wiped off the board by 1760 apart from a few Indians and Haiti). This is with the 'better AI' option on. I'm somewhat disappointed that it wasn't more of a challenge, given my lack of experience... is the AI better at the American War of Independence?

Here are some of the more notable AI blunders:
- continually facing me outside their own fortresses instead of remaining inside (then losing), allowing me to assault the remnant garrison next turn and putting their main army out of supply (as it retreats to an adjacent province)
- French attacking the Iroquois (triggering them) early in my English game
- failing to seek decisive battles when it has the numerical superiority (i.e. engage/defeat my main army); too focused on taking lightly defended towns for no long term advantage
- French far too aggressive early on, spreading their forces thin and allowing me to defeat them in detail
- often using Indian/irregulars to assault minor garrisons; they win sometime, but pointless
- English never tried to take Louisburg
- being too aggressive in winter (armies get heavily damaged by lack of supply)

----

Oh, and a couple of minor problems:
- Chef Pontiac rather than Chief :)
- attacking a reasonably large-ish Spanish army in the off map box caused it to drift to the right (outside the map, into the textured area). Looked like it was trying to run away... (smart move)
- after the French triggered the Iroquois by attacking them, the later event wasn't cancelled, and seemed to remove the locked Iroquois units from the board (except those whose mobile units had already been destroyed)
- when playing the French, Sangaretcha entered on the English side even though the other Iroquois didn't (and ended up on my side).
- Fort William Henry and Carillon appear to enter regardless of the board situation... it's a bit odd. Is there a control requirement, at least?
- EDIT: the winners of the battle can all be dead. Seems odd, though it doesn't really affect the game.

----

And a question - why was Gage 'locked' in Halifax? (a locked symbol on his army box, not on the unit; to move the other units in the army I had to drag them off him)

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Pocus
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Fri Dec 14, 2007 5:59 pm

Thanks for your feedback about the AI. I know of the issues about AI dispersal. You'll want to get the new BOA patch when it comes out though, it will have significant improvements in the AI department.
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Hofstadter's Law: "It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's law."

wryun
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Sat Dec 15, 2007 12:09 am

Another patch on the way - great!

Also, I was thinking about the 'defeat of army in front of fort': how come they never retreat into the fort? Is this by design?

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Stwa
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Sat Dec 15, 2007 5:15 am

Pocus wrote:Thanks for your feedback about the AI. I know of the issues about AI dispersal. You'll want to get the new BOA patch when it comes out though, it will have significant improvements in the AI department.


Do the "significant improvements" for AI include some of the items on wryuns' list or do you mean the planned speed improvements?

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Pocus
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Sat Dec 15, 2007 10:01 am

wryun? Please don't use argotic wording, I'm not a native english speaker :)
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Hofstadter's Law: "It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's law."

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Stwa
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Sat Dec 15, 2007 11:16 am

Pocus wrote:wryun? Please don't use argotic wording, I'm not a native english speaker :)


Earth to Pocus.... Earth to Pocus...

wryun is the name of the user you have been speeking with in this thread.

... And I am not sure, but I think its from the movie. You know "wery well, I will weewease wryun". :niark:

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GShock
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Sat Dec 15, 2007 11:18 am

This with retrofitting, Pocus is most certainly the best weapon you've got @ AgeOD. I can't wait to see AACW's Xmas patch and my next game is BOA (and not NCP!) :)
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
We ain't going down!

wryun
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Sat Dec 15, 2007 12:58 pm

Pocus wrote:wryun? Please don't use argotic wording, I'm not a native english speaker :)


Sorry Pocus, I didn't do it intentionally (if it does look like I've written something interesting which is not clear, I would happily try to explain). I fear I have two modes of writing, conversational or academic, and no good one for international forums ;)

wryun
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Sat Dec 15, 2007 1:02 pm

Stwa wrote:And I am not sure, but I think its from the movie. You know "wery well, I will weewease wryun". :niark:


I hadn't thought of that, but it sounds like a good story to tell people :)

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Pocus
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Sun Dec 16, 2007 2:07 pm

Oops sorry, I missed the whole point.
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Hofstadter's Law: "It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's law."

George40
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Sun Dec 16, 2007 5:01 pm

Yeah, another patch with AI improvements!

Any anticipated date for release?

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lightsfantastic
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Mon Dec 17, 2007 4:58 am

Play both sides.
I've been playing the 1755 Campaign that way and I must say I've enjoyed the game much more.

wryun
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Mon Dec 17, 2007 6:17 am

lightsfantastic wrote:Play both sides.
I've been playing the 1755 Campaign that way and I must say I've enjoyed the game much more.


Hmm... if I felt like doing that I'd probably just play a board game. Better UI ;)

---

And this is also a game where FoW is very important, and I have trouble pretending I don't know what my 'opponent' is doing!

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lightsfantastic
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Mon Dec 17, 2007 8:07 am

wryun wrote:Hmm... if I felt like doing that I'd probably just play a board game. Better UI ;)

---

And this is also a game where FoW is very important, and I have trouble pretending I don't know what my 'opponent' is doing!



Ahh, but with the Computer there is no wife/girlfiend to nag you about those maps and counters on the table, or the destruction that can be wrought by kids and/or pets. :p leure:

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GShock
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Mon Dec 17, 2007 9:03 am

...Or by the cleaning maiden who will not inadvertedly make all the counters change position while passing the vacuum cleaner under the table...which basically means u got to start all over.

And it happened to me with a World in Flames match, over 10 years ago now...that game had been "running" for about 10 days already and i was almost in tears when i saw my positions in russia had been "dislodged" by the maiden and the nazi front line was already in stalingrad. :)
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

We ain't going down!

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Stwa
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Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:43 am

wryun wrote:And this is also a game where FoW is very important, and I have trouble pretending I don't know what my 'opponent' is doing!


Well, I have been playing my youngest child (head to head) on the same computer. Even a 12 year old knows not to abandon New York. :niark: Much more challenging. Next I am going to force my wife to play. :tournepas

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lodilefty
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Tue Dec 18, 2007 2:31 pm

Stwa wrote:Well, I have been playing my youngest child (head to head) on the same computer. Even a 12 year old knows not to abandon New York. :niark: Much more challenging. Next I am going to force my wife to play. :tournepas


Makes sense, as the AI can't pass a Turing test!!!! :niark: :siffle: :bonk:

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Stwa
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Tue Dec 18, 2007 2:43 pm

lodilefty wrote:Makes sense, as the AI can't pass a Turing test!!!! :niark: :siffle: :bonk:


[color="Red"]....Documented cases are usually in environments such as Internet Relay Chat where conversation is sometimes stilted and meaningless, and in which no understanding of a conversation is necessary. Additionally, many internet relay chat participants use English as a second or third language, thus making it even more likely that they would assume that an unintelligent comment by the conversational program is simply something they have misunderstood, and don't recognize the very non-human errors they make...[/color]


:niark: :niark:

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