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Thread: Russia in PoN

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    Default Russia in PoN

    Has anyone played Russia in PoN? If so, can you tell me step by step what to do?

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    Build railroads in all industrial centres (you can worry about connecting them later). Get your own machine parts and manufactured goods production running. Invest in mussle-loaded rifles when you can - those will come handy during Crimean war.

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    Just don't overdo it with railroads until you have some hefty production or import of coal. Expand with vigor eastwards, but always remember Russia is a relatively backward country that needs some time to get things going.

    Work your alliances.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pesec View Post
    Build railroads in all industrial centres . .
    That's what I thought. But I don't have enough steel to build any.

    So, put out all sorts of buy orders; spent about 3 times as much as I exported--OOPS!

    So, I also need to know what can I safely sell lots of.

    Also, at the end of the turn it said I had some event cards--something like that, that I could play. But, when I look at the tutorial I didn't see anything about it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kensai View Post
    Expand with vigor eastwards,
    Aren't I already up to the Pacific?

    Work your alliances.
    I have alliances?!? How do I make those? It will be interesting to see what options we are allowed.

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    not that many options. plus theyre awfully hard to get ( especially if you make war twice a year like me)

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    Quote Originally Posted by djconklin View Post
    That's what I thought. But I don't have enough steel to build any.

    So, put out all sorts of buy orders; spent about 3 times as much as I exported--OOPS!
    It is totally fine to import more than you export as long domestic sales cover the difference. Huge population means huge domestic market, which is a major advantage for Russian economy. As long as population demand for certain goods is not satisfied, it costs nothing extra for you to buy it abroad since it will be sold on domestic market, returning the money used to import and making your people happy in the process.

    I made a mistake of buying supplies initially (which I later realized was a mistake since cities, depots and forts produce it for free) and my economy was still fine. Just give it time - Russia has a lot of room to expand, so it will take many years. But Russian potential is huge.

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    Only problem is the only things that stay on the market on sale for more than a year is what you sell -.-'

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    I had started a game several times with Russia and I am playing actually in 1865. I find Russia is a great nation to play with PoN you have rebellions, colonization, wars, rebellions, wars, rebellions, colonization

    The offer of steel, iron and minerals is always good and cheap, but it is difficult to find manufactures, coal and dye.
    I build industries for manufactures, prio 1, and later chemical (to get dye for the textiles and sell chemical goods for money), luxury products and the military academies (for the prestige and troops).
    I buy steel, iron and minerals if I need.
    The coal is very important when you have the railroads and more industries and the market doesn't offer always, so more coal extrations and the railroads to Kharkov are very very important. You need coal to produce steel and Russia needs the coal for manufacturers and trains, so I prefer to buy the steel.
    Baltic Sea and Austria offer sometimes products with demand in other sides but not in its markets, it is a good opportunity to buy.

    The expansion to the East has three ways :
    - Central Asia : war against Khiva, Bokhara and Kokand, step by step, it is not easy. The cossacks and ulans have their work there.
    - North Asia and Alaska: immigration, roads, chefs, trade ...
    - East Asia : there is a crisis with China and normally China gives these provinces if you do some press.
    The prestige points of the colonization are very important, so change the influences to protectorates and colonies if you can !

    The turkish are very strong in the citadels, so you need strong armies with valid leaders and siege arms...

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    What can I safely export? And how much?

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    Quote Originally Posted by pesec View Post
    I made a mistake of buying supplies initially (which I later realized was a mistake since cities, depots and forts produce it for free)
    Indeed, this is something that bugs me. I wonder if when and how will we run out of supplies and ammo? Does anyone leave the default setting of converting goods?

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    You only really need to have extra supply and ammo (the merchandise type) if your army is really big and are in a war I believe, and this is true when you have also a lot of artillery that eat up ammo. Perhaps we were too generous with the default setting, but then we don't want countries to starve when at peace, so the balance is difficult, particularly with the AI.




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    Quote Originally Posted by djconklin View Post
    What can I safely export? And how much?
    First put the internal demand to 80% for all the products you can, your people will be happier and your income higher
    You need steel, coal and manufactures (iron and wood too) to build some new structures, it is interesting to have more than you normally need for this reason.
    I remember that I exported nothing (or fast nothing) at starting the game with Russia, but that's my way to play PoN

    Good to export later are the chemicals, luxury, silk, mechanical parts, but you need build some factories.
    When you have upgraded some structures with new technologies, like the coal extraction, the production is very high and then you can export this products easily if there is demand.

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    okay, got bored of france.

    hesitating between Russia and Prussia.

    I played prussia once, but it failed 'cause all scripts were wrong (Denmark kept regions, unifications impossible etc) and ended up with a dramatic crash of game
    xO

    I want to know if russia is a really hard country to manage like its reputation says.
    I dont want to pass hours against rebellions, or even against tiny scale colonization

    I like seeing a empire grow visibly
    tips?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamitar View Post
    okay, got bored of france.

    hesitating between Russia and Prussia.

    I played prussia once, but it failed 'cause all scripts were wrong (Denmark kept regions, unifications impossible etc) and ended up with a dramatic crash of game
    xO

    I want to know if russia is a really hard country to manage like its reputation says.
    I dont want to pass hours against rebellions, or even against tiny scale colonization

    I like seeing a empire grow visibly
    tips?
    I have reached 1858 as Russia. It is much more challenging to build your economy, as Russia is really backwards compared to France. At the beginning, a lot of your farms and factories will produce only one or two of their product. Because of the corrupt system, it is really expensive to build improvements. But there is much you can do to improve this , and I found it enjoyable.

    The other difference is the chance to fight some challenging wars. Khiva can be quite tough, and the AI handed me several defeats in the opening months of the war. The Khivan war was resolved in my favor after a series of exiting battles in which the AI took advantage of my supply problems, and the difficulty of crossing a bit river. I won, but it could have gone the other way.

    The Crimean War is a great deal of fun. I won several battles in the open field against large Ottoman forces, and wound up taking their great fortresses and ultimately Constantionple. Before that happened, though, my offensive in the Caucasus was derailed by a massive revolt in the Caucausus, led by Shamil, which cost me my greatest general.

    Unfortunately, the British and French did nothing but raid my merchant shipping.

    The poor communications means that moving troops from one part of the empire to another is never easy. While you can build railroads, they are very expensive for Russia and it will be decades before you can build enough to make a real difference.

    As 1858 dawns, I am planning to attack Bokhara. But there is a huge Afgan army sitting peacefully in their capital area, even though those countries are at piece. I do not know what they will do when I attack, and they have nearly a thousand in estimated combat power, which means they can do some real damage.

    Very different than playing France. And there is the Cossackery, which is ideal for efficiently putting down small revolts quickly. Good thing, because I have had four small revolts in eight years, plus the massive caucausus revolt, which took a large army. Russia is blessed with a large colliection of interesting leaders, who have a wide variety of special abilities, especially some of the ones who appear a few years after the game starts. But most of them have great flaws as well, which makes it a real challenge to use them efficiently. But it is very enjoyable.

    Once I can build a transiberian railroad, I plan to hit the Chinese, as they hold a lot of territory I can colonize.

    A very enjoyable game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vaalen View Post
    As 1858 dawns, I am planning to attack Bokhara. But there is a huge Afgan army sitting peacefully in their capital area, even though those countries are at piece. I do not know what they will do when I attack, and they have nearly a thousand in estimated combat power, which means they can do some real damage.
    The Afghans do nothing if they are not at war with Bokhara or with you. Be quiet about it.
    There is a region of Bokhara with opium
    In my game, the Afghans invaded the town of Kokand in a previous war, so my declaration of war against Kokand didn't include the formed capital of this Emirate.
    I've declared the war against the Afghans later, in 1863, and the British were there but at the moment only looking my sieges

    Quote Originally Posted by vaalen View Post
    Once I can build a transiberian railroad, I plan to hit the Chinese, as they hold a lot of territory I can colonize.
    There is a crisis, in my game Russia won and China withdrawed the eastern provinces
    Transiberian is very expensive but an army spend fast 2 years between Moskva and Vladivostok without rails.
    Railroads in Central Asia (Khiva, Bokhara, Samarkand, Merv, Tashkend, Herat, Kabul) ist very useful against the rebellions of these people but expensive too.

    Quote Originally Posted by vaalen View Post
    A very enjoyable game.
    Yes

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    I just noticed in the manual and game that I need to build merchant ships to do int'l trade. I'm wondering if the lack of ships caused some of my requests for trade to not go through?

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    I went to St. Petersburg and found my merchant ships. Manged to move (one?) to the Baltic and I think I have one going to the North Sea. But I can't seem to get any more out. Anyone know why?

    Also when I clicked on the merchant ships it said that I have four. But over to the right a little screen seemed to indicate that I have six. And then, tin the row that had my units I found 8 more ships. What do I really have?

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    Merchant fleets allow you to trade with regions bordering the trade zone they are in. From my experience, having merchant ships in Baltic and Black seas is pointless. Move some ships to Caribbean to get coffee and fruits (your enormous population will buy them, returning the cost of purchase with the benefit of being happier).

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    >Move some ships to Caribbean

    How do I do that? I can't even move the one's that are still in port(?).

    ===

    Now I can't even find the ships, period!

    I see the Baltic navy and that's it.

    Then I clicked on something and the game locked up and bombed out.
    Last edited by djconklin; January 8th, 2012 at 00:31.

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    You have merchant ships in Baltic Sea trade box (not in the port) that allows you to trade with regions bordering the Baltic sea. Since you border nations in that region anyway, they serve little purpose there. Move them to a trade box that borders regions that you want to trade in.

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    Merchant fleets supply the units, there are three fleets with this funtion : Black Sea (for Caucas and Anatolia), Baltic (for Baltic countries) and North Pacific (for Alaska).

    There are messages of trading ratio of these fllets in turn reports and you can read there the level of use for each fleet.

    These mercant fleets supply of munition and food the troops, overall if there is any rebellion or war.

    I think the Black Sea fleet is necessary for the rebellions in Caucas and the wars against the turkish (the use is always high). You can trade ink with turkish to supply your textile industry too.

    The Baltic fleet could be interesting for trading with Sweden (iron, steel, coal) more than the supply funtion, Baltic market is not famous and sometimes products with an strong demand in North Sea or Atlantic, have not buyers in Baltic.

    North Pacific is not essential, Alaska is not a rebel region and the british attack it at the Crimean War. The use of these fleet is 0 normally in turn reports.
    The Alaska fleet could be moved for trading exotic goods in Carib, Peru-Chile, Argentina-Uruguay-Brasil or China-Japan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schwarzer Herzog View Post
    Merchant fleets supply the units, there are three fleets with this funtion : Black Sea (for Caucas and Anatolia), Baltic (for Baltic countries) and North Pacific (for Alaska).

    There are messages of trading ratio of these fllets in turn reports and you can read there the level of use for each fleet.

    These mercant fleets supply of munition and food the troops, overall if there is any rebellion or war.

    I think the Black Sea fleet is necessary for the rebellions in Caucas and the wars against the turkish (the use is always high). You can trade ink with turkish to supply your textile industry too.

    The Baltic fleet could be interesting for trading with Sweden (iron, steel, coal) more than the supply funtion, Baltic market is not famous and sometimes products with an strong demand in North Sea or Atlantic, have not buyers in Baltic.

    North Pacific is not essential, Alaska is not a rebel region and the british attack it at the Crimean War. The use of these fleet is 0 normally in turn reports.
    The Alaska fleet could be moved for trading exotic goods in Carib, Peru-Chile, Argentina-Uruguay-Brasil or China-Japan.
    I have found that you do not need a baltic merchant fleet to trade with Sweden if you are Russia, because you have an overland connection through Finland.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vaalen View Post
    I have found that you do not need a baltic merchant fleet to trade with Sweden if you are Russia, because you have an overland connection through Finland.
    You are right You can trade there from North Sea too.
    Maybe the best is to check how many transport points are using the Baltic merchant fleet (better all the fleets) and then take a decision.
    I remember but I'm not very sure, the use of merchant fleet in Baltic was high, almost 500 points, until I built the rails to Lithuania and Poland.

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    Default Alaska

    I don't know if it is always in this way, but Alaska is bought for the Americans without other option playing with Russia.
    I am disappointed about it, I hoped something more

    The USA were afraid of a reaction of GB because Alaska was up the frontier line of 1818 and 1846 between USA and the british Canada.

    I think it could be something to do for a next patch

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schwarzer Herzog View Post
    I don't know if it is always in this way, but Alaska is bought for the Americans without other option playing with Russia.
    I am disappointed about it, I hoped something more

    The USA were afraid of a reaction of GB because Alaska was up the frontier line of 1818 and 1846 between USA and the british Canada.

    I think it could be something to do for a next patch
    What kind of "more" would you have liked? Options and events allow a lot of things, but this has to remain realistic...the Russians would probably have had themselves shot in the feet rather than selling to GB who had just beaten them up in the Crimean War... they were close and friendly with the USA an hated the Brits... France and Austria, as well as Turks, came close seconds in the "hate" level of the Czar...

    So then, who else could have been interested in that piece of rock and ice?

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    PhilThib,

    sorry, in generally your point is true, but a bit "naive"...

    THE RUSSIANS BRIBED (and we are talking about a lot of grease money) members of the house of representatives in the USA for the latter ones did not want to agree to spend the money.... 113:48 in favor then, after one years discussion.

    the president of the USA even justified the decision by saying it would deprive monarchs of Europe furthermore from expansion (there could be more than the SOI based crisis in game in case of players have a choice, lets say, HOW THE PURCHASE is communicated)

    enough time for interacting quests for the player who is not supposed to know it will be done anyway?!

    not much one could do as additional "events" maybe, but a lot of "behind the curtain action" on the diplomatic level was there, and plenty of resource wasting events during the negotiations are thinkable even if one will be forced to accept the scripted purchase afterwards....

    just an unfinished picture, i know, but as Schwarzer Herzog said, there COULD be more than just an information that it was done.
    ...not paid by AGEOD.
    however, prone to throw them into disarray.

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    ‘Everything is very simple in War, but the simplest thing is difficult. These difficulties accumulate and produce a friction which no man can imagine exactly who has not seen War . . . in War, through the influence of an infinity of petty circumstances, which cannot properly be described on paper, things disappoint us, and we fall short of the mark.‘

    Clausewitz

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    Default Playing as Russia

    Hi All. As this seems to be the thread for all things Russian I thought I'd pose my question here. I've fought a war with Khiva and taken all their lands. If I try to make peace I can only accept reparations not take the provinces. What did I do wrong?

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    I think it's fine as is. Invoking the Monroe Doctrine would have prevented any other Power from buying without risking war with the USA. As PhilT notes, US relations with Russia were probably better than with any other European country in 1867 thanks to the Czar's unstinting support of the Union during the Civil War.

    Canada did not yet exist and the Crown Colony of British Columbia had no legal authority to treat with a foreign country. Empire relations with Russia were still tense so the purchase of Russian territory so soon after the Crimea debacle would have been a political nightmare for Parliament even if the Russians had been willing to sell.

    If Alaska was to be sold at all, there was nobody outside the USA as a realistic buyer and PON reflects this.

    That said, it might be reasonable if the event fires only if Russian-American relations are at a certain point diplomatically but the likelihood of another party getting a shot at buying Alaska is negligible.

    Of course many PON players don't care about historical imperatives but I'm sure they can mod the game to suit without wasting developer time for customized events aimed at covering their specific situation.

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    "That said, it might be reasonable if the event fires only if Russian-American relations are at a certain point diplomatically but the likelihood of another party getting a shot at buying Alaska is negligible."


    of course we are talking about what could be there, not more.

    I already dream of AGEOD stopping patch support for PON with an "official patch no. 1.15 " and then saying time for PON II.
    But i acknowledge, that any mods will be faster and more certain, given the stable basis we got with 1.02.

    however, what you said that is my point. the event can simply be extended it is about to fire anyway, but whats happened before....
    having a floating date when Alaska would be sold depending on Russia financial reserves in the 1860s, or the need to invest in the negotiation (as they did historically...)

    since there is a group discussing/implementing more events, and they do read here and at Paradox, it is always worth to discuss in public the history and alternatives.
    or we would need the "good books about this era"-thread back
    ...not paid by AGEOD.
    however, prone to throw them into disarray.

    PS:

    ‘Everything is very simple in War, but the simplest thing is difficult. These difficulties accumulate and produce a friction which no man can imagine exactly who has not seen War . . . in War, through the influence of an infinity of petty circumstances, which cannot properly be described on paper, things disappoint us, and we fall short of the mark.‘

    Clausewitz

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